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IAF decides on 144 Fifth Generation Fighters

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The Indian Air Force (IAF) has decided the number of Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFAs) at 144.

Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne told India Strategic in an interview on IAF’s 80th Anniversary that all these aircraft would be single seaters, the same which the Russian Air Force will have but some components like onboard computers and systems would be different as in the case of SU 30 MKIs.

Now designated PMF, or Perspective Multirole Fighter by Russia, the Indian aircraft would be made in India, he said adding that discussions with the Russian Government are already on.

Earlier, a figure of 200-plus of two-seater version for India was looked at. But to cut down on the development costs and time frame, IAF plans to begin their induction from 2020 onwards, Air Chief Marshal Browne said.

Discussions with Russia are on to sign the first R&D phase, and the first prototype is likely to be delivered to India in 2014 followed by two more in 2017 and 2019. The series production then “will only be ordered based on the final configuration and performance of the third prototype.”

The Air Chief observed that Speed, Reach, and Precision are the keywords for IAF's

Transformation that is going on now.

He observed that various acquisition programmes of the Indian Air Force were going on as normal and so were the upgrade programmes. IAF had already spent around Rs 150,000 crores (approx $ 30 billion) in the last five years and that there was adequate budgetry support to execute its transformation programmes by 2027, when all the 42 combat squadrons sanctioned by the Government will be operational.

He reiterated that he expected the deal for 126 French Rafale Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MRCAs) to be finalised by March 2013. There are virtually daily meetings between the aircraft partners, Dassault, Thales and engine maker Snecma on the one side and IAF, HAL and Ministry of Defence representatives on the other.

On the legacy aircraft, he said that while the Soviet vintage IL 76 and AN 32 transport aircraft were already under upgrades to give them an extended life of 10 to 15 years, the tender to upgrade IAF’s 100 odd Jaguar aircraft with new engines was about to be issued – likely by October end – to the US Honeywell.

IAF tenders for Combat, Heavy Lift helicopters and Midair Refuelers have already been opened over three weeks beginning mid-September. While the combat helicopter deal has gone to Boeing Apache AH-64D, because Russia withdrew its Mi 28 helicopter, the winner in the other two would be decided on the basis of lifecycle costs. Calculations were being done now, and it should take a couple of months in each case to declare the winner.

Ministry sources told India Strategic that the selection process sometimes got delayed as vendors either give incomplete answers or left some columns blank. As disputes over interpretation can arise, it is better to get clarifications right in the beginning.

Notably, all the aircraft deals with Soviet Union/ Russia so far have been on government to government basis, including for the FGFA. This is the first time that Russian aircraft – Mi 26 heavy lift vs. Boeing CH 47F Chinook, and Il 78 against Airbus MRTT – are pitted in global competitions in India, involving mandatory offsets. If the Russians win, they will have to do what is required by the DPP (Defence Procurement Policy) and invest 30 percent of the deal back in Indian defence industry.

The FGFA programme began in 2006 and MTA in 2007, and both these, as well as for the Indian Navy's 45 Mig 29 shipboard fighters, are exempt from offsets. The Mig 29 programme is part of the Gorshkov aircraft carrier's acquisition programme, signed well before the DPP came in place.

..:: India Strategic ::. Air Force: IAF decides on 144 Fifth Generation Fighters
 
So does this mean that India is actually going with the T50?
 
So does this mean that India is actually going with the T50?

did artical not says , it will have diffrent components?

can anyone tell me where this news says we are only going for 144 jets? all i read is we wont get 2-seaters, and this is not a new news for sure.
 
So does this mean that India is actually going with the T50?

Not in exact terms, but i guess this is certainly a bad news, from an ambitious plan of a much different plane from the current Russian PAK-FA, IAF has come down to a FGFA which will be similar to PAK-FA's, I think the time & cost associated with the project has forced IAF to retreat from it's previous stance, but the a/c will be certainly a MKI's version of PAK-FA. Also from 200+ FGFA, IAF is now down to only 144 a/c :woot:

The good news though is the FGFA production will start by 2020 :tup:
 
Good news. First get the single seater PAK-FA. We can work for twin seater version in parallel.
 
Not in exact terms, but i guess this is certainly a bad news, from an ambitious plan of a much different plane from the current Russian PAK-FA, IAF has come down to a FGFA which will be similar to PAK-FA's, I think the time & cost associated with the project has forced IAF to retreat from it's previous stance, but the a/c will be certainly a MKI's version of PAK-FA. Also from 200+ FGFA, IAF is now down to only 144 a/c :woot:

The good news though is the FGFA production will start by 2020 :tup:

The cut back in plans from opting for a single seater from a twin seater is worth $ 2 billion saved, makes sense.
 
i think the spped of PLAAF J20 & POSSIBLE single version has shocked india to going for T50 rather than develope a 2 seater with indian technology as first envisaged.

ONE CONCERN is that the induction will coincide with 2 other fighters programmes ie

RAFALE INDUCTION FROM 2014-2024

TEJASS MK 2 from 2017 ONWARDS TO 2025

Can india support that much fininacial & logistically induct 3 fighter types simulataneously .

i think it will lead to problems
 
The cut back in plans from opting for a single seater from a twin seater is worth $ 2 billion saved, makes sense.

Yes, that certainly makes sense, also it maintains stealth as twin seater would have decreased the stealth features of the a/c, but why cutting the no. of a/c from 200+ to just 144?? :devil:
 
i think the spped of PLAAF J20 & POSSIBLE single version has shocked india to going for T50 rather than develope a 2 seater with indian technology as first envisaged.

ONE CONCERN is that the induction will coincide with 2 other fighters programmes ie

RAFALE INDUCTION FROM 2014-2024

TEJASS MK 2 from 2017 ONWARDS TO 2025

Can india support that much fininacial & logistically induct 3 fighter types simulataneously .

i think it will lead to problems

Well, i think if there would have been problems than IAF wouldn't have planned for it in the first place, finance is not a problem since with growth in Indian economy, IAF budget will only grow, all top AF's induct 2-3 types of planes simultaneously & i don't see any reason for why IAF can't. Each a/c will have separate HAL facility & with increase in private participation in aerospace sector, HAL will be at an ease as far as production is concerned.

+ Post 2020, IAF will be inducting FGFA, Rafale, LCA simultaneously, that means around 50-60 ac/year :enjoy:
 
Yes, that certainly makes sense, also it maintains stealth as twin seater would have decreased the stealth features of the a/c, but why cutting the no. of a/c from 200+ to just 144?? :devil:

could it be bcos of AMCA?
 
could it be bcos of AMCA?

Doesn't make sense, FGFA is a heavy weight fighter, whereas AMCA is a medium weight, IAF doesn't plan the no. of it's heavy weight fighters on the nos. it is inducting in the medium weight category, like su-30mki's nos. are independent of the nos. of Rafale the IAF inducts.
 
i think the spped of PLAAF J20 & POSSIBLE single version has shocked india to going for T50 rather than develope a 2 seater with indian technology as first envisaged.

ONE CONCERN is that the induction will coincide with 2 other fighters programmes ie

RAFALE INDUCTION FROM 2014-2024

TEJASS MK 2 from 2017 ONWARDS TO 2025

Can india support that much fininacial & logistically induct 3 fighter types simulataneously .

i think it will lead to problems

Given that by 2020 India will be spending in excess of $100BN per annum on defence then logistics and costing is no issue. Like the ACM said budgets have been set and financing is available-the MoD and Indian military are thorough and true professionals, I have no doubt in my mind that they know what they are doing and aren't going to make amateur mistakes like ordering and ordering and then not being able to finance the deals. And this is the period (~2008-2022) when massive outlays are going to have to happen to completly transform the IAF (and other forces) on a scale no one else has ever even attempted. If you look you will see that almost everything in the IAF's inventory is either being replaced or signifcantly upgraded in this decade and it needs to happen.

So does this mean that India is actually going with the T50?


It won't be the "bog standard" T-50 the RuAF will get but a "MKIised" version of the T-50 with Indian,Isreali and French avionics so the "MKIised" T-50s the IAF will get will be more advanced than the RuAF's.



+I suspect in the coming years this figure will be revised and the number of 5th gen fighters for IAF will go up to the 200-250 limit at least.
 
Think 144 is just an initial number !! It can always be revised later and they might be planning to induct twin seaters at a later date , plus a potential for exports !!
 

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