Pak-Iran relations

[Black Stone]

I'm not sure if there is a thread for this, if so, please redirect.

I want to ask the Pakistani members here on their relations with Iran. I understand you guys are neighbors and being a fellow muslim state. What is your view on current and outlook say 10-20 years of relations with Iran?.

Please share your views.

 

[drosan]

much of it is identity crisis!

 

[UnitedPak]

much of it is identity crisis!

your 'identity crisis' it would seem.

I'm not sure if there is a thread for this, if so, please redirect.

I want to ask the Pakistani members here on their relations with Iran. I understand you guys are neighbors and being a fellow muslim state. What is your view on current and outlook say 10-20 years of relations with Iran?.

Please share your views.

Pakistan and Iran relations are improving, and in future the economies will probably rely on each other. They took a hit because of Taliban, but you have to remember that we have never had border disagreements and there is nothing to sustain the sour relations.

Like Ahmadinejad said: “Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan are part of one large family and they have historic ties and cultural links.”

I think everyone has realised that in order to have a Muslim superpower in Asia, we need large scale Economic cooperation. This is exactly what Ahmadinejad suggested, that Economically speaking Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran should become one, and this will most likely be the case imo.

 

[drosan]

your 'identity crisis' it would seem.

make sense dude. *burp*

 

[UnitedPak]

make sense dude. *burp*

Dont hijack the thread. There are other topics if you want to discuss the Pakistani identity.

 

[Black Stone]

Pakistan and Iran relations are improving, and in future the economies will probably rely on each other. They took a hit because of Taliban, but you have to remember that we have never had border disagreements and there is nothing to sustain the sour relations.

Like Ahmadinejad said: “Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan are part of one large family and they have historic ties and cultural links.”

I'm not a fan of Ahmadinejad or what he says, in my view, he says this just to rally Pakistan and Afghanistan behind him in the face of American tensions. I could be wrong.

I don't deny the historical and cultural links, but I think is more about politics.

I think everyone has realised that in order to have a Muslim superpower in Asia, we need large scale Economic cooperation. This is exactly what Ahmadinejad suggested, that Economically speaking Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran should become one, and this will most likely be the case imo.

When you mention that "they should become one", what did you mean by that? do you mean forming some sort of a Union?.

 

[Black Stone]

Dont hijack the thread. There are other topics if you want to discuss the Pakistani identity.

He is probably related to Devendra, a famous Indian on this forum.

 

[drosan]

Dont hijack the thread. There are other topics if you want to discuss the Pakistani identity.

my apologies. he he

 

[UnitedPak]

I'm not a fan of Ahmadinejad or what he says, in my view, he says this just to rally Pakistan and Afghanistan behind him in the face of American tensions. I could be wrong.

I don't deny the historical and cultural links, but I think is more about politics.



When you mention that "they should become one", what did you mean by that? do you mean forming some sort of a Union?.

Ahmadinejad is very critical of American influence on the world, in most cases their military invading every one. I dont think there is anything wrong with criticizing this.

I mean they will unite economically to become more powerful on the world stage, and possibly have very close Military ties. Kinda like the European Union.

 

[Black Stone]

Ahmadinejad is very critical of American influence on the world, in most cases their military invading every one. I dont think there is anything wrong with criticizing this.

This is natural, when there is tension between Country X and Country Y, both will be critical to each other.

I am more concerned about other things he says.

What is your view when he said he will "Wipe Israel off the map"?.

I mean they will unite economically to become more powerful on the world stage, and possibly have very close Military ties. Kinda like the European Union.

I believe a similar set up has already taken place, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

Both Pakistan and Iran are observers.

 

[Kasrkin]

Thank you since you DID ask a PAKISTANI.

I would say the main problem is the most Pakistanis are Sunni Muslims and almost all Iranians are Shia Muslims. Now that does count a lot, not that it should but there are elements in Pakistan that generaly dislike the idea of a powerful Iran and same in the Iranian side towards Pakistan.

Now that being said, Pakistan and Iran are still good friends. And the Iranians have sided with us during the wars with India. Most Iranians know and respect Pakistan as a powerful Muslim state and most Pakistanis do appreciate Irans anti-western stand.

But in pratical terms, as if right now the major obsticals in a powerful Pak-Iran alliance is that:
1) Pakistan and US are allies in the War on Terror. This makes Iranians uneasy.
2) Iran and the west are involved in a lot of controversy so Pakistan can not help the Iranian Military in any major way without raising a few eye brows.
3) Iranian and Pakistani economies are both in trouble.
4) Iran is closer to Russia just as we are to America, and the Iranians are also not as unfriendly to Indians as we might like them to be.
5) Iranians have a lot of pride, they think they are meant for greatness and they do not feel that their ancient civilization needs any help from the relativily new self-made Muslims of the sub-continent.
6) Also I feel there is some amount of bitterness in Iran towards Pakistans nuclear weapons program because they feel the west allowed us to get nuclear weapons but not the Iranians (not our fault they were too slow but thats how they feel).

 

[drosan]

in the future, iran will be a lot supportive towards pakistan. read hyde act to know why?
i'll quote some from it here

Section 103 ‘Statement of Policy’ : (b) ‘……the policies of United States with respect to South Asia‘ : (1) ‘…..achieve moratorium on the production of fissile material for nuclear explosive purposes by India, Pakistan and Peoples Republic of China‘; (3) Secure India’s : (B) ‘formal commitment to the statement of interdiction principles of proliferation security initiative‘ and (C) ‘public announcement of its decision to conform with ….the Australia group and … Wassenaar arrangement‘; (4) ‘Secure India’s full & active participation in United State’s efforts to dissuade, isolate, and, if necessary, sanction and contain Iran in its efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons capability and the capability to enrich uranium or to reprocess nuclear fuel, and the means to deliver weapons of mass destruction’.

 

[Black Stone]

Thank you since you DID ask a PAKISTANI.

I would say the main problem is the most Pakistanis are Sunni Muslims and almost all Iranians are Shia Muslims. Now that does count a lot, not that it should but there are elements in Pakistan that generaly dislike the idea of a powerful Iran and same in the Iranian side towards Pakistan.

In the eye's of the average westerner, they think Shia and Sunni muslims hate each other and some extent kill each other. Since Pakistan and Iran are dominated by the respective Sunni and Shia. Do you think a true Iran-Pakistan unity can be a reality and achieved.

Now that being said, Pakistan and Iran are still good friends. And the Iranians have sided with us during the wars with India. Most Iranians know and respect Pakistan as a powerful Muslim state and most Pakistanis do appreciate Irans anti-western stand.

Do you think Iran's siding with Pakistan was pure on the pretext of a fellow Muslim nation and neighbour or more of politics and want to avoid the possibility of seeing Indians on their doorstep?.

But in pratical terms, as if right now the major obsticals in a powerful Pak-Iran alliance is that:
1) Pakistan and US are allies in the War on Terror. This makes Iranians uneasy.
2) Iran and the west are involved in a lot of controversy so Pakistan can not help the Iranian Military in any major way without raising a few eye brows.
3) Iranian and Pakistani economies are both in trouble.
4) Iran is closer to Russia just as we are to America, and the Iranians are also not as unfriendly to Indians as we might like them to be.
5) Iranians have a lot of pride, they think they are meant for greatness and they do not feel that their ancient civilization needs any help from the relativily new self-made Muslims of the sub-continent.
6) Also I feel there is some amount of bitterness in Iran towards Pakistans nuclear weapons program because they feel the west allowed us to get nuclear weapons but not the Iranians (not our fault they were too slow but thats how they feel).

I agree, US-Pak closeness and Russia-Iran closeness does cause complication to Pak-Iran relations, Thank you for your points of view.

 

[Kasrkin]

In the eye's of the average westerner, they think Shia and Sunni muslims hate each other and some extent kill each other. Since Pakistan and Iran are dominated by the respective Sunni and Shia. Do you think a true Iran-Pakistan unity can be a reality and achieved.

Well no offence sir but the average westerner is pretty un-educated in that regard. Shia and Sunni do get a long much more often than not. But its just not the same thing. Half my family is Shia and I know Shia generals in the Pakistan Army. Its not THAT big of a problem. But when you go deeper, much deeper and bring culture into it...then you come across elements that are likely to find excuses to condemn the other. I dont think this Shia-Sunni thing makes it impossible or even hard for us to unite, but only that it complicates things as compared to a Sunni-Sunni thing like with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and Iran and Hizbullah. There are like 25% Shia in Pakistan I think and Zardari is a Shia, but that does not mean the Iranians will like him. So yeah its complicated.

Do you think Iran's siding with Pakistan was pure on the pretext of a fellow Muslim nation and neighbour or more of politics and want to avoid the possibility of seeing Indians on their doorstep?.

Saudi Arabia sided with us, as did Turkey and a host of other Muslim nations. So yeah its more about Muslim Brotherhood and honour and all that. The Shah and Pakistan were good friends, Pakistan and Iran still are. Besides the possibility of seeing Indians on their doopstep was pretty remote (and still is) because Pakistan and India were evenly matched. Also then there is the whole anti-Soviet agenda (which many Muslim countries took to) that meant standing against Soviet backed India.

Thank you for your points of view.

Dont mention it, love your avatar btw.

 

[Black Stone]

Well no offence sir but the average westerner is pretty un-educated in that regard. Shia and Sunni do get a long much more often than not. But its just not the same thing. Half my family is Shia and I know Shia generals in the Pakistan Army. Its not THAT big of a problem. But when you go deeper, much deeper and bring culture into it...then you come across elements that are likely to find excuses to condemn the other. I dont think this Shia-Sunni thing makes it impossible or even hard for us to unite, but only that it complicates things as compared to a Sunni-Sunni thing like with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and Iran and Hizbullah. There are like 25% Shia in Pakistan I think and Zardari is a Shia, but that does not mean the Iranians will like him. So yeah its complicated.

None taken, I wouldn't go as far as labelling un-educated, ignorance maybe. As a matter of fact, most Americans can't even locate Iran on the world map. The problem is most Amercicans care more about what Paris Hilton is upto and watching American Idol.

Most don't care what's happening in the outside world, they live in a dream bubble, but when things happen on their doorsteps, they can get united. This is actually quite dangerous.

Saudi Arabia sided with us, as did Turkey and a host of other Muslim nations. So yeah its more about Muslim Brotherhood and honour and all that. The Shah and Pakistan were good friends, Pakistan and Iran still are. Besides the possibility of seeing Indians on their doopstep was pretty remote (and still is) because Pakistan and India were evenly matched. Also then there is the whole anti-Soviet agenda (which many Muslim countries took to) that meant standing against Soviet backed India.

You mentioned the Shah being good friends with Pakistan, but Iran oppose the Shah, that's what lead to the Islamic Revolution and the current regime. Any effects of this on Iran-Pak relations?.

Dont mention it, love your avatar btw.

I prefer my signature, what do you think?