Pakistan Military Officer Pay Scale/Recruitment

Discussion in 'Pakistan Defence & Industry' started by solid snake, Dec 20, 2006.

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  1. solid snake

    solid snake SENIOR MEMBER

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    I have recently been wondering what it would be like to join one of the three main branches of the Pakistan military as an officer. I am pretty sure I can pass the various tests/interviews, so that is not a problem. The biggest concern for me is the pay scale. Does anyone know how much officers are paid per rank? I've tried to search for the answer on the internet, but to no avail. Also, I have realized that the maximum age to apply for an officer position is around 21. Why is that? I know that the forces educate their cadets and award them an undergraduate degree, but why does the military exclude people who complete degrees as civilians? I'm currently in college and won't be done with my education until I am at least 22, which means if I want to join the Pakistan military, I will have to abandon my education and the thousands of dollars I have so far spent will go down the drain. The rule dosen't make sense to me.
  2. WebMaster

    WebMaster ADMINISTRATOR

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    I think this is something which only the recruitment offices can help you with. I have no idea.
  3. solid snake

    solid snake SENIOR MEMBER

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    The only way I can contact them is via the internet, and as far as I know they don't have any email addresses I could send my queries to.
  4. WebMaster

    WebMaster ADMINISTRATOR

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  5. PakShaheen

    PakShaheen FULL MEMBER

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    It would be nice if you could post their replies here.
    Thanks
  6. Muradk

    Muradk PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Solid snake your question has no one answer I will just give you a small example.
    Pakistan Air Force.
    2 main branches of PAF , GDP ( General Duty Pilot ) and Engg. Both when
    Passout are 17grade but GDP gets an extra pay which is flying pay Rs 5000 extra. when a fighter pilot is on ADA he gets RS 350 per night , now he can do from 10 to 15 days a month on ADA. If you are lucky you get to do mail run which starts from karachi to Chaklala going to every base picking up confidential mail and droping at chaklala you get Rs1000 per day.
    Now you get suspended from fighter flying you can join Transport 6 Sqd Chaklala fly C-130 all around the world and make **** loads of Dollors an avarage pilot on C-130 makes 20000 to 30000 thousand dollors a year in TADA picking up spareparts from USA, Uk Germany , Franch ,UAE, Peru, South Africa, China. Now GDPs and Transport pilots dont get along each think they are more than the other.
    Army has its own system , Navy has it own but to say that every one gets the same is not right .
    The best way to find out it is ask DPR ( Director Puplic Relations ) In AHQ or GHQ or NHQ you right them a letter and ask they will reply for sure, that is there job.
  7. solid snake

    solid snake SENIOR MEMBER

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    Guys, I'm sorry I got busy with exams and forgot about this thread.

    Thank you for that information! Wow, I never knew C-130 pilots can get that loaded :eek:
    I guess the pay in the PAF is not bad at all. Combine this with free healthcare, 50% air and rail travel and the fact that flying is the coolest job in the world, and you've got yourself a great career.

    edit: WebMaster, thanks for the links. I will write to them and post the replies here if I get any.
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  8. Xeric

    Xeric PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Ahan!
    Guud to see the confidence.
    Viola!
    It is 22 for intermediate and 23 for graduates
  9. Kasrkin

    Kasrkin PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    "I am pretty sure I can pass the various tests/interviews, so that is not a problem..."

    DONT DO THAT! They look for a very specific sort and you have to work very hard to become that. The process is tough, from start to end I'd be surprised if even 10% make it to PMA. You need to be tougher, faster, more resilient and sure-footed than an average person your age. You need to start climbing ropes and running (not jogging) a mile every day. You need to refine your general knowledge (particularly Pakistan specific) and you even need to revise your intermediate course material.

    And I’m going to be honest with you, the pay is not much. If its money you’re after (nothing wrong with that) then you might as well forget about the army. I can give you a list of the officers pay, but it is not impressive. Most people join up for prestige, status, respect, honor, tradition or simply love for soldiery. BUT even from those not all of them find comradeship, some get disappointed and leave early while others find the going higher up increasingly tough. It usually takes men of supreme dedication, self-confidence and ability to reach the top. The Army is something not suited to most people in this increasingly money-oriented world.
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  10. Jako

    Jako SENIOR MEMBER

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    Have you guys seen this thread dates back to 2007???
  11. qsaark

    qsaark SENIOR MEMBER

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    It appears to me that a large percentage of those who join Army for prestige, status, respect, honor, tradition or simply love for soldiery really never makes up to the top level where make or break kind of decisions are made. Otherwise blunders such as Operation Gibralter, Operation Grand Slam, 1971 war, Siachen, and Kargil would have never happened. A majority of those who made up to the top ranks may have all the supreme dedication, self-confidence and ability to reach to the top but not professionalism. And yes, money is not there as much, but once you make it to the rank of a one star and beyond, than money is indeed their, lots of it. In fact there is also a very good chance of becoming the sole owner of the country. After all four of the COAS plus one Major General ruled the country.
  12. Kasrkin

    Kasrkin PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    I'm aware that some Pakistanis are given to believe that Pakistan's entire military history is one long list of humiliations, but its not. Professionalism is there in the high ranks and has been for quite a while, that should be blindingly obvious given that we've maintained a balance based on credible deterrence against a much larger, resourceful and stable rival. Now that being said, ofcourse sometimes bad worms make it to the top (which happens everywhere) and I won’t disagree with you if you said that folks like General Niazi were not skilled enough to command the number of troops entrusted to him. However ‘mistakes’ like Siachen don’t just happen because of individual incompetence but sometimes because of organizational shortfalls, superior enemy resources or even sheer darn luck. Generals for example are extremely able people, but they’re given to miscalculations and mistakes that all look very obvious to us in hindsight but they’re not. If war was a science, it would be more like economics because at the end of the day you just can’t be sure about everything, too many incalculable variables from enemy morale or enemy intentions and even the weather. For what its worth though, I can assure you that Pakistani generals would fare well enough in front of their Indian counter-parts and the middle ranks (from captain to colonel) even more so.

    So yes, it usually takes men of supreme dedication, self-confidence and ability (which includes administrative and martial competence) to reach the top. Its way too easy for people to sit at home and judge, but its another thing to actually carry the crushing responsibility altogether. Complete competence on the battlefield is a myth, wars are won and lost depending on who makes the greater blunder first. We've made many mistakes granted, but that in itself is not because of a 'lack of professionalism'. I can assure you we've learnt and are learning from mistakes, that is what professionalism is about.

    Nope, compared to what many of these people can achieve in civilian careers a general's pay is nothing. Corp commanders (3 star generals) make only 62,000per month and thats not 'lots of money'. You can claim they have a lot of power, respect, authority but not excessive amounts of money.

    Nonsense. No one joins the army with that sort of thing in mind. Not every officer becomes a general, and not every general becomes a COAS and not every COAS takes over the country. Those who did did it because they felt obliged by circumstance and were obviously a minority.
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  13. qsaark

    qsaark SENIOR MEMBER

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    A very well drafted and compelling reply . I thank you personally for this wonderful post. Now coming to the above paragraph. I never meant the salary, but all the additional benefits that include lands, etc. Looking from what Musharraf made (before taking the position of COAS), it is clear that an Army officer is showered with plots, lands etc. soon after he enters into the circle of the elites, i.e. Generals.
  14. Kasrkin

    Kasrkin PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Actually, these perks and plots for military personnel are designed to negate this financial disparity felt by their officers without further burdening the tax payer. I never said that generals are financially vulnerable, ofcouse they’d probably be better off than your average Pakistani but that doesn’t mean they’re ‘showered in wealth’ or anything of the sort. The image of generals with unlimited access to the taxpayer’s money is untrue. They’re able to do fine for themselves no doubt, but that doesn’t mean excessive wealth. Civilians with their age and experience (often working for multinational companies) usually make much more than they do (including the plots and perks).
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  15. Xeric

    Xeric PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    @ Post # 13: A wonderful post i must say, comprehensive and lucid!

    Now for the money and land that would allegedly make a soldier in our military rich enough that even Bill Gates would shy off or their next 7 generations for live ion that money!

    First, if someone is referring to a General specifically then i must say it speaks of sheer lack of knowledge on their part or may be they have some personal grudge with some general, indeed. Generals, Admirals, Air Marshals, all receive the perks and privileges equally in terms of (allegedly) land, plots, houses etc. So let's not be too specific with the term General, though the word itself mean general, let it not be used so generally!

    Second, it seems as if people think that the plots, land etc etc that they claim are given to Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals are free of cost. This again speaks of sheer ignorance and lack of knowledge and i would call it blaming a respectable appointment.

    Allow me to clear the dust for once and all, all the plots etc etc that are given to any military officer and the JCOs/NCOs are not given free of cost. They pay for every bit of it just like anyone would pay for some plot in civilian affairs. Yes the differences are as follows:

    The Askari Housing Scheme allows all Officer to get 'a' house to their name once in a service. This is not a compulsion but an option with any Officer. 'Unfortunately' he has to pay for that house for the rest of his life. He starts at it as a Lieutenant (when ALL of his class fellows and friends are actually doing pondi outside a girls college, studying or roaming around as vagabonds-meaning simply that they are not earning except for the few who also study and work either they can as they can spare time, like when i was not in the military, people who were studying CS, all were earning after they completed their 2-3 years in university, or they work as a compulsion) i.e when 'respected' civilans are studying the military officers are already earning and paying, thus taking the lead from here, though to be covered up later by his civilian friends when they start earning. Well coming back to the point, so the Lieutenant gets a loan and/or saves money and/or shake his parents and make up the down payment and then from his salary a never ending series of installments begins which will go along till he retires or dies. By the time he retires only half of the cost of that house is paid, so the officer gives a large amount of money out of what he gets when he retires. So that's the story of someone who retires as a Major in the Army. Thanks to the excellent, transparent and efficient planning and quality control displayed by Askari Housing Scheme that and Officers is able to own a house after he has given a life-time to the military.

    BTW, who stops, PTCL, WAPDA, MCB, State Bank, Railways, KESC, Atomic Energy Commission etc etc to provide their employees with the same kinds facility!!?? All it takes is a dedicated department and there is nothing to lose? or may be they have one functioning already, but our worthy members deliberately turns a blind eye to this fact as they have only joined the forum to malign some particular institution!

    Ok.

    Now let me give a word about 'that' House which an officer BUY from the military. The size of the house varies with the rank, what a Major gets is lower in value when comapred to what a Colonels would get, that's one thing.

    Two, you actually booked house when you were are Lieutenant, may be in 80s. You would get that house in 2005 (when you retire after 25 years) now guess what that house has grown its price X times as any other house or plot would do in Pakistan depending on its location etc. BTW, i forgot to mention that actually the Army kept your money for 25 years and made alot more money with it and you know how.

    Now it is this house that pinches, bothers, give sleepless nights and hard time to many fellow Pakistanis.

    To clear off the remaining dust i would like to add that 'this' house is similar to ANY other house that a CIVILIAN would make or buy outside the military! It has the same value (or may be more because of the excellent quality standards that AHS has displayed and the perfect maintenance available there). It soars in price in the same proportion as any other house outside a cantonment does.

    Now if that house sells for 7-11 million (maximum limit as of today rather when the plots were at the highest prices a few years back) rupees in the end i.e. after 10-25 years of it construction that Armed Forces' Officer sure do have enough money to feed his generations, isn't it!?:lol:

    Now a Question; can anyone name me a person who was doing a government job as a gazetted 17 grade officer (not a rickshaw driver, sweeper, peon, chowkidar etc) or for that matter any other individual who was earning approximately that same amount of salary as an Army officer of his service does, who has not been able to buy atleast ONE house in his 25 years of service in the civilian sector? If he has not then i must say he has poor financial management skills, and has not love for his children! As he has wasted his life for nothing. BTW, i have yet to see a civilian who fits in the above mentioned criteria and has not been able to do what i said above. i have colleagues, friends, class fellows, relatives in banks, private enterprises, local private companies, civil gazetted officer etc etc and i have yet to see if anyone of them has failed to achieve what an Army officer does with the same service and pay. Rather ALL of then had managed to 'make' more than what an Army officer had.

    Now to clear of the last spots of dust (if any), lets talk about the Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals. Armed Forces has a policy. AFs gives plots to their men (officer and JCOs/NCOs) on the basis of their achievements and service. Not EVERYONE gets another plot other than the house which we already have discussed. There are many limits.

    Service limits, like to qualify for the second plot you may have to complete a minimum of 27 years of service, so if you have retired earlier, you can say bye bye to the plot.

    Second, again these plots are NOT FREE OF COST or CHARITY. We pay for it! Now again everyone doesnt get the 'honor' to pay for this second plot. Everything works as if in the civilian sector except that we are more efficient and transparent. When some plots are available, the criteria is announced i.e. Minimum of 29 years of service, not already has more than one house/plot booked, must not have a problem in his documents etc etc. Now all the officers who volunteer for the plot (mind it not all does as they cant afford to pay for the plot) would have to face the BALLOT (as in any civilian plots selling enterprise) Ofcousre we dont do the balloting on weekend nights with all present, it is done at higher levels automatically and is 101% transparent, none has so far raised any concern about it. Normally 1000s of officers. JCOs/NCOs are considered for the balloting and only a few 100s get the plots-the lucky ones. There on they pay for the fringing plot as any other civilian would pay for his plot that he won in balloting. Nw is there a problem with this procedure? If yes, you cant do a damn about it!

    To make simple, let's assume Webby wants a plot in Behria Town, Neo wants one in DHA, Asim wants one in Eden City (got the name from ads). So here's what they would do; apply through a form (now if they have to stand in line for days to get the form or had to buy it in black, the Army ofcourse is not to be blamed, say thnx to the transparent and efficient civilian system). After submitting the forms they have to wait for the balloting. Let's assume Asim and Neo has their names in the ballot (no offence Webby) so what they would do is that they'll pay the down payment become the owner of that plot, pay the rest of the installment for the rest of their lives and then sell the same plot X times the price on which they got it. That's exactly what the armed forces personnel do.

    Now no one stops me or anyone else in Pakistan to purchase a plot or house and same holds guud for the Armed Forces!

    Now a General, Admiral and Air Marshal may have more than one plots by virtue of the amount of service they are putting on. This again is a way to keep the officers working even if they are superseded (not promoted) as the Armed Forces dont want to let a trained soldier retire just because he didnt get promoted!

    N.B. How much would a Civilian Officer (executive appointments-not the bechara tangawla or rickshay wala) had earn in terms of pay, plots, cars, bank balance etc etc when compared to an Armed Forces officer (retired after he reached the executive appointments/ranks of the military)??

    P.S i was able to apply for the Housing Scheme when i was a Captain (6 years of service) as i couldn't muster Rs 50K for the down fringing payment even after 6 years of my service! Though most of the officers get the membership of housing scheme as early as being Second Lieutenants. The Armed Forces now pay us a handsome amount of pay and allowances! We live a respectable life and are very very very contended about it, though by the end of month nothing much is left, atleast in my pocket!
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