Pakistan suffers $100bn losses in ‘war on terror’

[Sher Malang]

There is no logic in this, you are losing $100bln to get a few $blns from coalition funds? two things are possible: the $100bln figure is bogus or pakistani establishment is fool.

 

[muse]

Mr. Haider has nailed it, we see this pattern repeatedly, it's time for us to move past these arguments and to finsih off the Islamist enemy :

To avoid falling on the wrong side of the TTP, the clerics use multiple arguments with nary a thought to being non sequitur. Here are some examples:

The TTP’s actions are owed to drone attacks. Tell them that this violence is pre-drone and they will shift gears and say this is because Pakistan entered America’s war. Counter them by saying that extremist terrorism precedes America’s entry into Afghanistan and they tell you that sectarian violence is a different phenomenon. Insist that sectarian terrorist outfits form the backbone of the TTP, they tell you that these differences are centuries old. Try telling them that regardless of how old these differences are, they are generating violence in Pakistani society and [/COLOR]they will tell you that these killings are owed to external forces. Ask them what these external forces are and they will name the known foreign intelligence agencies. Turn this on them and argue that if this is right then how can the state talk to the TTP and they give you more poppycock. Ask why the TTP is generating violence in Pakistan instead of fighting in Afghanistan and we come full circle: because Pakistan entered into America’s war.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Mr. Haider has nailed it, we see this pattern repeatedly, it's time for us to move past these arguments and to finsih off the Islamist enemy :

I fear that the alternative, that we will not be able to move past these facetious arguments and the enemy will finish us off is a tad more likely.

 

[muse]

I fear that the alternative, that we will not be able to move past these facetious arguments and the enemy will finish us off is a tad more likely.

Rubbish - If the Talib were other than the Talib, I would worry, but if the Talib bends on his ideology, he is lost and without bending on his ideology he does not stand a chance of success in Pakistan

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Rubbish - If the Talib were other than the Talib, I would worry, but if the Talib bends on his ideology, he is lost and without bending on his ideology he does not stand a chance of success in Pakistan

I wouldn't be too sure of that Sir. There is a sizable percentage already supporting the Taliban ideology within Pakistan, and that percentage is increasing. Unless trends change, it is only a matter of time before my fears look more likely to be true than your rather flippant dismissal of them.

 

[muse]

I wouldn't be too sure of that Sir. There is a sizable percentage already supporting the Taliban ideology within Pakistan, and that percentage is increasing. Unless trends change, it is only a matter of time before my fears look more likely to be true than your rather flippant dismissal of them.

OK, lets give your position space --make the case, demonstrate that the ideology has a high degree of buy in without the fear factor

 

[Rank]

Loosing 200 billion more is better than being bombed back to stone age.

From whom ... who already lost ALL WARS IN HISTORY from Vietnam to Iraq to Afghanistan? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

[A.Rafay]

Who will pay for the loss of life of thousands of innocent civilians, soldiers and policemen??

 

[FaujHistorian]

To look at war as an economic win or loss proposition while observing only one side is sheer folly.


As much as we like to think otherwise and incompetent leaders like to prove otherwise, war is an investment. An investment that pays dividends not directly but through indirect avenues. Pakistanis would do well to view the War on Terror through the same perspective. Losses in lives and money are extreme, but theoretically they are necessary sacrifices in order to create a better Pakistan.


If we let the extremist threat survive in order to play it safe, the losses we would suffer over the long term would burry the sacrifices of today.

If the Pakistani economy is to ever rise out of the doldrums in a definite manner, it must convince foreign governments and corporations that it is willing to do all it can to create a safe and stable environment.


.......On a similar level. The extremist threat, were it allowed to survive, has the potential of radically changing Pakistan into a nation of extremists.


The uneducated and poor are easy prey for emotional messages;

....

Nicely put.

I hope people get this part of the post, instead of the later half.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

OK, lets give your position space --make the case, demonstrate that the ideology has a high degree of buy in without the fear factor

Let me attempt to do that by changing the focus from the ideology to the society. Rather than relying at how violent the ideology is to estimate the limits of its appeal, let us look at just how deprived and polarized our society is gradually becoming, given the lack of economic opportunity and social mobility in an era of widespread information technology, where manipulation of points of view is getting easier. Then let us see that when such a population is given the good tidings, consistently and frequently, that a just and prosperous society is just around the corner, if only they support these pious, simple men who follow all Islamic laws and injunctions, would anyone expect them to resist that siren song for long?

Who will pay for the loss of life of thousands of innocent civilians, soldiers and policemen??

If you are expecting a monetary reimbursement, then I am afraid our blood is very cheap. If you mean the intangible costs, then we all will pay, most of all the immediate families, for decades to come.

 

[muse]

Let me attempt to do that by changing the focus from the ideology to the society. Rather than relying at how violent the ideology is to estimate the limits of its appeal, let us look at just how deprived and polarized our society is gradually becoming, given the lack of economic opportunity and social mobility in an era of widespread information technology, where manipulation of points of view is getting easier. Then let us see that when such a population is given the good tidings, consistently and frequently, that a just and prosperous society is just around the corner, if only they support these pious, simple men who follow all Islamic laws and injunctions, would anyone expect them to resist that siren song for long?
.

Argus, Islamist parties offer the same vision, how may votes did they get?? See, you need to understand that it's about ideology and fear - that's how the talib or any Islamist gains traction, that is to say he imposes it.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

From whom ... who already lost ALL WARS IN HISTORY from Vietnam to Iraq to Afghanistan? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Yes, but the really funny thing is to look at the only superpower in the world today and tell me again who lost all these wars.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I wouldn't be too sure of that Sir. There is a sizable percentage already supporting the Taliban ideology within Pakistan, and that percentage is increasing. Unless trends change, it is only a matter of time before my fears look more likely to be true than your rather flippant dismissal of them.

there is two types of support for Talib@stards.

--- Islamists in Pakistan
--- Appeasers of Talib@stards

the first group is pretty much constant if not decreasing. Poeple had had enough Islamism.

Most recent elections clearly showed that Islamist parties are minor players now. And so are their militant wings


the second group doesn't want Sharia, or Talib@stardization of Pakistan.


They feel they can be safe in their big mansions if they are nicey nicey to Talib@stards,

This group is headed by Taliban Khan Imran Khan, and Mian Nawaz Sharif Jhangvi.

Give this group 6 months.

If their theory is right, we'll have peace and Talib@stard genie will be back in the bottle

If their theory is wrong, well army is not going anywhere. That option is still there.


peace

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Argus, Islamist parties offer the same vision, how may votes did they get?? See, you need to understand that it's about ideology and fear - that's how the talib or any Islamist gains traction, that is to say he imposes it.

But Sir, do you really expect the Taliban to stand for elections and get votes? Nay Sir, they will start by killing off, one by one, those who stand in their path, until mainstream politicians and bureaucrats will learn to follow their leads as the faithful crowd being led by the righteous.

 

[FaujHistorian]

But Sir, do you really expect the Taliban to stand for elections and get votes? Nay Sir, they will start by killing off, one by one, those who stand in their path, until mainstream politicians and bureaucrats will learn to follow their leads as the faithful crowd being led by the righteous.

Please do not overplay Talib@stards

There threat is for real, but they are not gods .

they tried to threaten us away from elections.

Guess what,

We had more votes than ever compared to our recent elections.


2 tribal agencies and few bombs and killings here and there. This is what Talib@stards can do for sure.

But do not expect them to descend from FATA and occupy Pakistan.


peace