Pakistan's UAV - Drone developments

Discussion in 'Pakistan Defence & Industry' started by fatman17, Mar 7, 2009.

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  1. fatman17
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    Pakistan flexes UAV muscles at IDEAS:


    Gordon Arthur, Karachi, Pakistan
    James Hardy, London Section:

    2012-Nov-14


    Pakistan's Global Industrial & Defence Solutions (GIDS) used the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) in Karachi in early November to highlight its range of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), one of which showed signs of close co-operation with China.

    The Shahpar shares some design features with the CASC CH-3 UAV. (Robert Hewson) The 470-kg medium-range Shahpar bears more than a passing resemblance to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3. IHS Jane's reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 systems, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011. It is unclear whether the Shahpar is one of those 20 systems, an indigenously developed variant of the CH-3, or a separate programme.

    According to the company, the Shahpar is powered by a 100 hp Rotax piston engine with a maximum speed of 150 km/h, has an endurance of 7 hours, and is capable of day/night surveillance. GIDS officials added that it had completed qualification tests and was ready for production.

    The Shahpar is the most modern UAV in the GIDS stable. (Gordon Arthur) The Shahpar will complement GIDS' Uqab tactical UAV. Fitted with a gyro-stabilised gimbal with colour day camera and a thermal imager with target tracking and locking capabilities, the Uqab has been in service with the Pakistan Army since 2007 and recently entered service with the Pakistan Navy in a coastal surveillance role. The navy is also acquiring an Uqab-derived UAV called the Huma, which is truck-launched using a rocket booster and recovered by the use of a parachute. A GIDS spokesman said the navy is currently conducting trials of the UAV, which has a ceiling of about 4,600 m.

    GIDS also exhibited its 4 kg Scout Mini: a hand-launched UAV with a 15 km range and endurance of 45 minutes that is designed for use with a two-man team and is in the process of being commissioned by the army.

    COMMENT
    It is unclear what the relationship between the CH-3 and the Shahpar is, but UAV analysts point to the large number of similarities between the two platforms and previous reports of CH-3 sales to Pakistan. That Islamabad and China are "all-weather friends", the bromide used by officials from both sides, adds to the belief that some kind of joint venture has taken place.

    Meanwhile, the navy's deployment of the Uqab UAV, which has been in service at Pakistan Naval Station (PNS) Mehran in Karachi since July 2011, provides it with a step up in capabilities and may go some way to filling the cap caused by the destruction of two Lockheed Martin P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft at PNS Mehran by militants in May 2011.

    While those two aircraft were subsequently replaced by the delivery of two P-3Cs in 2012, it is likely that the P-3C fleet will be smaller than originally intended and so UAVs will give commanders more operational flexibility.


    JDW
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  2. The Deterrent
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    The Deterrent PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    For comparison:

    GIDS Shahpar UAV

    [IMG]http://gids.com.pk/images/shahpar.jpg[/IMG]


    CASC CH-3 UCAV

    [IMG]http://wareye.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/39.jpg[/IMG]
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  3. Thorough Pro
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    Thorough Pro SENIOR MEMBER

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    Bolded part is exactly what I said in my post, reproduced below for your reference.

    We need tounderstand that battlefield recon drones with 100/200 mile range are good for formation commanders for a limited area survelience, but when we talk of UCAV, we need to understand that armed drone missions are planned much like other airforce assets. They require refueling, re-arming and system checks which are better done at "normally" airforce bases, and airforce bases would normally be farther than 200 KM range from the target area and thus require a reliable communication channel which can effectively communicate beyond line of sight distances and and in all terrains.


    Originally Posted by Conceal Carry

    A very important element of an integrated UAV/UCAV system with decent range is a satelite which can act as a communication bridge between control station and the bird. We will not see a fully functional effective UAV/UCAV systemuntill our GPS satellite does not become fully functional (reported earlier to be functionalby June 2013).

    Untill then it's all talk
  4. orangzaib
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    orangzaib SENIOR MEMBER

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    Not only for long range ops, the sat link is also needed for real time situational awareness, three d imaging of the area, etc. A sat can show three d images or infra red images of the area and all objects
  5. ANG
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    ANG FULL MEMBER

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    Pakistan struggles in race to develop armed drones - Yahoo! News


    Pakistan struggles in race to develop armed drones
    By SEBASTIAN ABBOT | Associated Press – 4 hrs ago

    KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan is secretly racing to develop its own armed drones, frustrated with U.S. refusals to provide the aircraft, but is struggling in its initial tests with a lack of precision munitions and advanced targeting technology.

    One of Islamabad's closest allies and Washington's biggest rivals, China, has offered to help by selling Pakistan armed drones it developed. But industry experts say there is still uncertainty about the capabilities of the Chinese aircraft.

    The development of unmanned combat aircraft is especially sensitive in Pakistan because of the widespread unpopularity of the hundreds of U.S. drone strikes against Taliban and al-Qaida militants in the country's rugged tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

    The Pakistani government denounces the CIA strikes as a violation of the country's sovereignty, though senior civilian and military leaders are known to have supported at least some of the attacks in the past. Pakistani officials also call the strikes unproductive, saying they kill many civilians and fuel anger that helps militants recruit additional fighters — allegations denied by the U.S.

    Pakistan has demanded the U.S. provide it with armed drones, claiming it could more effectively carry out attacks against militants. Washington has refused because of the sensitive nature of the technology and doubts that Pakistan would reliably target U.S. enemies. The U.S. has held talks with Pakistan about providing unarmed surveillance drones, but Islamabad already has several types of these aircraft in operation, and the discussions have gone nowhere.

    Inaugurating a defense exhibition in the southern city of Karachi last week, Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf indicated Islamabad would look for help from Beijing in response to U.S. intransigence.

    "Pakistan can also benefit from China in defense collaboration, offsetting the undeclared technological apartheid," said Ashraf.

    Pakistan has also been working to develop armed drones on its own, said Pakistani military officials and civilians involved in the domestic drone industry, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the classified nature of the work.

    Pakistan first began weapons tests seven or eight months ago with the Falco, an Italian drone used by the Pakistani air force for surveillance that has been modified to carry rockets, said a civilian with knowledge of the secret program. The military is also conducting similar tests with the country's newest drone, the Shahpur, he said. An unarmed version of the Shahpur was unveiled for the first time at the Karachi exhibition.

    The weapons tests have been limited to a handful of aircraft, and no strikes have been carried out in combat, said the civilian.

    Pakistan lacks laser-guided missiles like the Hellfire used on U.S. Predator and Reaper drones and the advanced targeting system that goes with it, so the military has been using unguided rockets that are much less accurate.

    While Hellfire missiles are said to have pinpoint accuracy, the rockets used by Pakistan have a margin of error of about 30 meters (100 feet) at best, and an unexpected gust of wind could take them 300 meters (1,000 feet) from their intended target, said the civilian. Even if Pakistan possessed Hellfires and the guidance system to use them, the missile's weight and drag would be a challenge for the small drones produced by the country.

    Pakistan's largest drone, the Shahpur, has a wingspan of about seven meters (22 feet) and can carry 50 kilograms (110 pounds). The U.S. Predator, which can be equipped with two Hellfire missiles, has a wingspan more than twice that and a payload capacity over four times as great.

    Pakistani drones also have much more limited range than those produced in the U.S. because they are operated based on "line of sight" using radio waves, rather than military satellites. The Shahpur has a maximum range of 250 kilometers (150 miles), while the Predator can fly over five times that distance.

    The British newspaper The Guardian reported Tuesday that Pakistan was working on an armed drone but did not provide details.

    The market for drones has exploded in Pakistan and other countries around the world in recent years, as shown by the array of aircraft on display at the defense exhibition in Karachi. Hoping to tap into a worldwide market worth billions of dollars a year, public and private companies wheeled out over a dozen drones that ranged in size from hand-held models meant to be carried in a backpack to larger aircraft like the Shahpur.

    All the Pakistani drones on display were advertised as unarmed and meant for surveillance only. One private company, Integrated Dynamics, even promotes its aircraft under the slogan "Drones for Peace." But several models developed by the Chinese government were marketed as capable of carrying precision missiles and bombs.

    The Chinese government has offered to sell Pakistan an armed drone it has produced, the CH-3, which can carry two laser-guided missiles or bombs, industry insiders said.

    Also being offered to Pakistan is a more advanced drone, the CH-4, which closely resembles a U.S. Reaper and can carry four laser-guided missiles or bombs, according to Li Xiaoli, a representative of the Chinese state-owned company that produces both the CH-3 and CH-4, Aerospace Long-march International Trade Co., Ltd.

    Pakistan has yet to purchase any armed Chinese drones because their capabilities have yet to be proven, but is likely to do so in the future, said the civilian with knowledge of the Pakistani military's drone program.

    Only a few countries, including the U.S., Britain and Israel, are known to have actually used armed drones in military operations.

    "China is a bit of a tough nut to crack as you'd expect," said Huw Williams, a drone expert at Jane's International Defense Review. "They frequently wheel out exciting looking aircraft but are yet to really demonstrate anything earthshattering."
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  6. Rajput_Pakistani
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  7. a1b2c145
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    a1b2c145 FULL MEMBER

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    You Mean this baby, CH-4? Yes!!! much better than Wing Loong(they are simlar, but quite different)!
    CH-4:
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/27_122621_72830f4d81d2dc6.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_209902_c19d599f3e6e083.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/27_18615_22739924add3842.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/27_122621_72830f4d81d2dc6.jpg[/IMG]
    Wing Loong:
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/27_107719_a173658a8dea244.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_25932_ec5e9e5adeea139.jpg[/IMG]
  8. a1b2c145
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    a1b2c145 FULL MEMBER

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    Boys are assembling a Wing Loong during the Zhuhai air show:
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_132890_bb90d6736a3ddbe.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_72972_d36ec4da3d6aec1.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_72972_01e0ab0fb45e5e6.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_72972_f62c2de9898c838.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_72972_a349562d066f055.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_72972_976cf6b47829d95.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_72972_9b3408c03ef7cc5.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_72972_8c3481a8deb3388.jpg[/IMG]
  9. Thorough Pro
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    Thorough Pro SENIOR MEMBER

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    Bullcrap...........are we talking about paper rockets here?
  10. ANG
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    ANG FULL MEMBER

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    Hi, more importantly, I do not think the PA/PAF is that backward to use unguided rockets on a UAV. It is an interesting article; I am sure the PAF is struggling with targeting systems, due to lack of a satellite system. However, using unguided rockets, I do not believe that.
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  11. qwerrty
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    qwerrty FULL MEMBER

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    does pakistan have any military comm satellite?


    [IMG]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1211/294_209902_c19d599f3e6e083.jpg[/IMG]
    ......................
  12. Najam Khan
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    Najam Khan PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Shapar/Ch-3 seems like good design and can be operated by Navy/army units who need firepower other than CAS by Air Force. But If one sees these drones or Pterodactyl -1 as a long term solution to Pakistani armed forces,then they need some serious design changes. 100-200kg payload is not enough, even MQ-1 had loaded weight of 2,250 lb (its latter version MQ-9 carries 3,800 lb (1,700 kg) weight on 7 hard points). Plus, service ceiling has to be over 7000m (23,000ft).

    Wing Loong / Pterodactyl costs 1 million USD$, its way too low than its US counterparts but it has lesser punch and lesser service ceiling (endurance is not much issue for Pakistan, as we don't have operations in stand-off ranges). If such changes are addressed in later designs then we can see a combat drone in service with Pakistani armed forces.
  13. Rajput_Pakistani
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    Rajput_Pakistani FULL MEMBER

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    Apart from R & D being carried out in developing a UCAV, Pakistan should also start working on such a system

    Drone Economics: Tiny tactical drones get dirt-cheap, GPS-guided bombs | Ars Technica

    It can give Pakistan Army a useful tactical weapon. Less expensive then Hellfire type missile and without even a satellite link we can deploy it in range of 100kms or so. Already Pakistan has got drones which can carry 50kg payload. Guys if you can brainstorm over this..:drag:
  14. Ziras
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    Ziras FULL MEMBER

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    chinese wing loong is dirt cheap at only 1 million dollars,compared to USA's reaper at 34 million USD.
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  15. Oldman1
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    Oldman1 BANNED

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    You pay what you get.