Concepts / Ideas for the Pakistan Navy

[JamD]

The closest thing to the P282 (as we know it) is the CM401.

View attachment 772428

Ok yeah that's basically what the P282 will be. I will be shocked if it's anything else.

 

[JamD]

Ok yeah that's basically what the P282 will be. I will be shocked if it's anything else.

Why I think so is because:

The CM-401 (read P282) missile is a new type of high supersonic ballistic anti-ship missile, using near space trajectory, and capable of all-course high supersonic maneuverable flight, terminal diving and high velocity top attacking, various platform launching firing. It is mainly used to rapidly and exactly attack medium-large sized vessels and ships, formations and port targets. It has the characteristics of multi-ballistic coordinated capability, powerful damage capability, strong penetration ability and ....

Using google translate on the Chinese:
"Highest Mach 6
Average Mach 4"


@Akh1112

 

[Akh1112]

Why I think so is because:
View attachment 772488
View attachment 772489
View attachment 772490





View attachment 772492
The CM-401 (read P282) missile is a new type of high supersonic ballistic anti-ship missile, using near space trajectory, and capable of all-course high supersonic maneuverable flight, terminal diving and high velocity top attacking, various platform launching firing. It is mainly used to rapidly and exactly attack medium-large sized vessels and ships, formations and port targets. It has the characteristics of multi-ballistic coordinated capability, powerful damage capability, strong penetration ability and ....

Using google translate on the Chinese:
"Highest Mach 6
Average Mach 4"


@Akh1112

I wish good luck to the captains of these ships trying to hit anything that isn’t static

 

[JamD]

I wish good luck to the captains of these ships trying to hit anything that isn’t static

Assuming P282 = basically CM401:
I think they'll have acceptable capability to hit moving targets because this missile is definitely not terminally hypersonic. It's TOP Mach is 6, with an average of 4. I'd guess it is traveling Mach 2ish terminally. I mean there's no way that tiny radar in it's nose is powerful enough to work through plasma. So think of this is kind of a Brahmos. So yes it won't be as nimble as a subsonic AShM but it can turn enough to hit targets like big ships traveling at 20 kts or something. More and more I am thinking that the "hypersonic" is just a ruse.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Assuming P282 = basically CM401:
I think they'll have acceptable capability to hit moving targets because this missile is definitely not terminally hypersonic. It's TOP Mach is 6, with an average of 4. I'd guess it is traveling Mach 2ish terminally. I mean there's no way that tiny radar in it's nose is powerful enough to work through plasma. So think of this is kind of a Brahmos. So yes it won't be as nimble as a subsonic AShM but it can turn enough to hit targets like big ships traveling at 20 kts or something. More and more I am thinking that the "hypersonic" is just a ruse.

If this is the case then my fear right now is that we may not have a supersonic-cruising ASCM program. I hope I'm wrong and that we have a supersonic-cruising missile in the works too.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Assuming P282 = basically CM401:
I think they'll have acceptable capability to hit moving targets because this missile is definitely not terminally hypersonic. It's TOP Mach is 6, with an average of 4. I'd guess it is traveling Mach 2ish terminally. I mean there's no way that tiny radar in it's nose is powerful enough to work through plasma. So think of this is kind of a Brahmos. So yes it won't be as nimble as a subsonic AShM but it can turn enough to hit targets like big ships traveling at 20 kts or something. More and more I am thinking that the "hypersonic" is just a ruse.

That would be anti-climactic.

 

[Akh1112]

The Turkmenistan corvette carries 16 larger and heavier vls.

 

[syed_yusuf]

Can p282 be based on cx1 missile

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Keep it simple more Type 054

 

[Akh1112]

Keep it simple more Type 054

Absolutely not

 

[GiG]

Some thoughts and ideas:

As it is a fact that the Pakistan navy lacks number and in some cases quality compare to its adversary, so it's a natural assumption that it will be looking to wage war in asymmetrical manners.

->The planned purchase of 8 Chinese submarine
->Countless induction of Fast attack crafts
->Testing of surfaced launched anti-ship missiles
->Induction of early warning maritime patrol systems

these developments suggest which kind of warfare PN is preparing for, Ship vs Ship scenarios are out of bound here, which thankfully our adversary is still stuck in.

So far PN did great in what we called credible deterrence, what i can suggest is to look for current containerized missile systems like this:

Such a system will allow any surface vessel to be transformed into a surprise attack platform if the need arises.

Moreover, the role of cyber offense should be a top priority, some cybercriminals were able to jeopardize the operation of a south African port for 8 days.

South African port operations get back to normal eight days after cyber attack - Splash247

Transnet, South Africa’s main port operator, has got operations back up after being struck by a cyber attack last week. “Transnet Port Terminals, in collaboration with the shipping lines is facilitating the evacuation of urgent containers for the automotive, FMCG and agricultural sectors,”...

splash247.com

Achieving the same feet with kinetic means is an unnecessarily difficult task.

Finally occupying and controlling information channels of submarine cables should also be prioritized as well as the whole digital commerce of PN adversary is dependent on that,
https://www.lawfareblog.com/evaluating-russian-threat-undersea-cables

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Some thoughts and ideas:

As it is a fact that the Pakistan navy lacks number and in some cases quality compare to its adversary, so it's a natural assumption that it will be looking to wage war in asymmetrical manners.

->The planned purchase of 8 Chinese submarine
->Countless induction of Fast attack crafts
->Testing of surfaced launched anti-ship missiles
->Induction of early warning maritime patrol systems

these developments suggest which kind of warfare PN is preparing for, Ship vs Ship scenarios are out of bound here, which thankfully our adversary is still stuck in.

So far PN did great in what we called credible deterrence, what i can suggest is to look for current containerized missile systems like this:
View attachment 772961
Such a system will allow any surface vessel to be transformed into a surprise attack platform if the need arises.

I think the main risk with concealed container-based ASCM/LACM is that it'd torpedo the credibility of our merchant ships. No one will trust our freighters. However, if we can figure out the 'self-contained' aspect of these systems, we could make modular OPVs, FACs, USVs, and mobile coastal batteries.

For example, we can build low-cost OPVs and FACs with primarily guns and not much else, but leave the space for a ASCM/LACM container. Once things heat up, a PN Fleet Tanker could reach these OPVs/FACs, and then load the ASCM/LACM containers relatively quickly. Likewise, we can mount these containers to 6x6 or 8x8 trucks.

 

[GiG]

I think the main risk with concealed container-based ASCM/LACM is that it'd torpedo the credibility of our merchant ships. No one will trust our freighters. However, if we can figure out the 'self-contained' aspect of these systems, we could make modular OPVs, FACs, USVs, and mobile coastal batteries.

For example, we can build low-cost OPVs and FACs with primarily guns and not much else, but leave the space for a ASCM/LACM container. Once things heat up, a PN Fleet Tanker could reach these OPVs/FACs, and then load the ASCM/LACM containers relatively quickly. Likewise, we can mount these containers to 6x6 or 8x8 trucks.

I stressed “if the need arise”

this was a pretty common practice in navies during ww2

False flag - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

and the adversaries of Pakistan didn’t care if ships belong to merchant navy as indicated by the losses of 1971

Chapter-39

 

[Akh1112]

Some thoughts and ideas:

As it is a fact that the Pakistan navy lacks number and in some cases quality compare to its adversary, so it's a natural assumption that it will be looking to wage war in asymmetrical manners.

->The planned purchase of 8 Chinese submarine
->Countless induction of Fast attack crafts
->Testing of surfaced launched anti-ship missiles
->Induction of early warning maritime patrol systems

these developments suggest which kind of warfare PN is preparing for, Ship vs Ship scenarios are out of bound here, which thankfully our adversary is still stuck in.

So far PN did great in what we called credible deterrence, what i can suggest is to look for current containerized missile systems like this:
View attachment 772961
Such a system will allow any surface vessel to be transformed into a surprise attack platform if the need arises.

Moreover, the role of cyber offense should be a top priority, some cybercriminals were able to jeopardize the operation of a south African port for 8 days.

South African port operations get back to normal eight days after cyber attack - Splash247

Transnet, South Africa’s main port operator, has got operations back up after being struck by a cyber attack last week. “Transnet Port Terminals, in collaboration with the shipping lines is facilitating the evacuation of urgent containers for the automotive, FMCG and agricultural sectors,”...

splash247.com

Achieving the same feet with kinetic means is an unnecessarily difficult task.

Finally occupying and controlling information channels of submarine cables should also be prioritized as well as the whole digital commerce of PN adversary is dependent on that,
https://www.lawfareblog.com/evaluating-russian-threat-undersea-cables

View attachment 772969

this is a war crime btw

 

[GiG]

this is a war crime btw

They are getting pretty mainstream now

Club-K Container Missile System

Club-K Container Missile System is designed for engagement: 1) surface ships of different classes and types -- 2) land and shore-based targets -- The following types of missiles are used in Club-K system: 1) 3M-54KE, 3М-54KE1, Kh-35UE anti-ship missi

www.military.com