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Turkey to Drop Plans For F-16s: Chinese J-10C Fighters Hinted as Choice to Modernise Fleet

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The possibility is there.
Saw plenty of attack towards Turkey leadership from Anglo media.
French jet is too expensive; Russia jet I bet is out of question.
J10c providing a path to J35, while tf-x takes time.
Anybody with a brain should realize that there's no such possibility.

As I said before, even if China gave them for free, Turkey has no use for them. The fact that they are "cheap" means nothing.


It's like you're trying to complete a jiggsaw puzzle and someone hands you a lego

@Deino
How long does the WS-10 go between overhauls these days?
 
In fact no info available ... but will check!
I remember seeing 10 hours somewhere, I don't know how true that is but it has to be much shorter than NATO engines.

And since we don't have the logistical infrastructure for Russian / Chinese engines, that would mean complete dependence on outside help. Nevermind the fact that it only fires Chinese missiles

Anybody who thinks Turkey would accept such a plane just to have capabilities that are marginally better than F16 ...is out of their mind
 
I remember seeing 10 hours somewhere, I don't know how true that is but it has to be much shorter than NATO engines.

And since we don't have the logistical infrastructure for Russian / Chinese engines, that would mean complete dependence on outside help. Nevermind the fact that it only fires Chinese missiles

Anybody who thinks Turkey would accept such a plane just to have capabilities that are marginally better than F16 ...is out of their mind


Never ever 10 hours only ...
 
Never ever 10 hours only ...
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I guess I had seen this. 30 hours is pretty ridiculous,


400 hours is still pretty bad. The whole fleet would be out of commission after a couple of months. Which I have no reason to believe that the chinese have reached the quality of AL-31
 
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I guess I had seen this. 30 hours is pretty ridiculous,


400 hours is still pretty bad. The whole fleet would be out of commission after a couple of months. Which I have no reason to believe that the chinese have reached the quality of AL-31
You do realize there is something called engine lifecycle management and pretty much every airforce does it no matter how bad MTBOs are?

It may reduce flight hours but that doesn’t mean “The whole fleet will be out of commission “ - what a sensationalist statement
 
Anybody with a brain should realize that there's no such possibility.

As I said before, even if China gave them for free, Turkey has no use for them. The fact that they are "cheap" means nothing.


It's like you're trying to complete a jiggsaw puzzle and someone hands you a lego

@Deino
How long does the WS-10 go between overhauls these days?
Like China is just begging to give out J 10C to you for free or at any cost. HQ 9 is a good lesson for China. No kidding.
 
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I remember seeing 10 hours somewhere, I don't know how true that is but it has to be much shorter than NATO engines.

And since we don't have the logistical infrastructure for Russian / Chinese engines, that would mean complete dependence on outside help. Nevermind the fact that it only fires Chinese missiles

Anybody who thinks Turkey would accept such a plane just to have capabilities that are marginally better than F16 ...is out of their mind
At the moment yes the Chinese still lag behind the West in engine development but not for long. They are catching up very fast and you will forget the day we even had this debate in no time.

Regarding Turkiye, firstly, there is the political element and it's a big one. The west views Turkiye as a threat to its interests in the Middle East and on the issue of allowing other countries joining NATO. The F-16 deal is clearly linked to that. Whether or not AKP wins or loses elections, politics will still be on the agenda. If they lose and opposition concede to demands of the West, AKP will claim they are sell outs harming national interests. If AKP wins, you are still back to square one and level of western distrust remains the same. So either way, you will be dealing with them so long as Türkiye decides its own fate. Be on the side of the West, East, or make yourself sufficient enough.

We all know Turkiye is developing the TF-X and it will take years to mature and induct and the engine on that platform is still not clear. So what options do they have to replace present ageing fleet yet not become dependent on the West? The path forward is either move things quicker at the speed of China or chose a side.

View attachment 920232

I guess I had seen this. 30 hours is pretty ridiculous,


400 hours is still pretty bad. The whole fleet would be out of commission after a couple of months. Which I have no reason to believe that the chinese have reached the quality of AL-31

You should also quote the part where it says it was reported back in 2010 and also the part where it says engine was the older WS-10A.

Since then WS-10B and WS-10C engines have been introduced and I doubt their performances are anything like the WS-10A which you quoted from 2010 and it may be the reason why PAF didn't induct them on either the JF-17 or on the J-10A when it was offered.

The facts are J-10c is a completely different aircraft and can be powered by the WS-10B which is an upgrade over the WS-10A and if PAF have inducted them now that means it is satisfied with its performance.
 
tbh, I think Turkiye will procure the Eurofighter Typhoon. Doing so would give the British government more urgency to release technology and IP for the MMU as there's a multi-billion-dollar fighter deal on the line. The T3 is also a good strike-capable platform.
I think so as well. It just makes more sense than buying the J-10c.
 
You do realize there is something called engine lifecycle management and pretty much every airforce does it no matter how bad MTBOs are?

It may reduce flight hours but that doesn’t mean “The whole fleet will be out of commission “ - what a sensationalist statement
it's a true statement. We're not going to take the aircraft apart and ship the engines back to china and wait for them to come back after just 30 hours.
(Or However many hours they last now.)

Turkish Air Force has to maintain a very high combat readiness and our pilots have to fly hundreds of hours to stay effective. The plane being marginally better than F-16 means nothing if we can't keep the pilots trained to a very high level.

For a lot of reasons, this plane is useless for Turkey

To make such a plane aceptable, we would have to buy the licence and and produce it in Turkey with a different engine,(which doesn't exist) different avionics, weapons, etc. At which point it would take a few years and until then TF-X would be ready anyway.



I am completely ignoring politics here. We ignored the politics for S-400 because it was deemed worth it. J-10 just isn't.
S-400 is likely the best system in the world for what it does, J-10 isn't.
 
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We have a Turkish member riding on a high horse here.😂
 
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A member of the Turkish Presidency’s Security and Foreign Policies Council, Cagri Erhan, has announced that the country is expected to drop its requests to acquire F-16C/D fourth generation fighter aircraft from the United States. He cited the fighter’s “$20 billion cost package,” and the availability of more cost effective options in particular the Chinese J-10C. “Now we have other options like the Chinese jet, which was sold to Pakistan, Russian jets and also Eurofighter jet.” Pakistan began receiving J-10C fighters from China in February 2022 - a fighter from the same weight range as the F-16 but with a design several decades newer and multiple important performance advantages particularly in regards to its armaments and flight performance. Like the F-16 Block 70/72, the J-10C is a single engine lightweight fighter with a low operational cost and enhanced fifth generation level avionics. The Chinese aircraft has the benefit of comparable and in most respects superior capabilities, as well as lower maintenance needs and a much faster delivery time. Turkey, however, is the largest foreign operator of the F-16 with approximately 250 in service, meaning new F-16s would be much easier to integrate with existing logistics and training regimes and would be compatible with existing air launched weapons it already fields. China has in the past modified its fighters to be able to operate American weapons at the request of foreign clients - most notably third generation J-7 fighters sold to Pakistan which can used American AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles. Turkey is itself looking to phase out American air to air weapons from its F-16 fleet by developing indigenous alternatives, the Peregrin and Merlin, which could provide a means of standardising the weaponry on both J-10 and F-16 units. Neither of these missiles, however, nor those available for even the latest F-16s, match the performances of the PL-10 and PL-15 air to air missiles used by the Chinese aircraft. The J-10C’s arsenal of cruise missiles also optimise it for anti shipping, air defence suppression and strike roles with many of these weapons having no analogues in the F-16’s armaments suite. A further key benefit of the J-10C is that it can be acquired at a small fraction of the cost of the F-16, in part because it is being produced on a much larger scale. While China has acquired over 200 J-10Cs for its own fleet since 2018, the United States has not purchased F-16s for 18 years since 2005 meaning the aircraft is being manufactured as a lower end product for export. The discrepancy in the statuses of the two programs is reflected in the fact that the J-10 design has received considerably more far reaching upgrades and investments to improve its performance over the past two decades than the F-16 has.


Recently Turkish pilot test Chinese J10 side by side with PAF F16s

lol. The classic tactics of the Turks. Pretend to purchase Chinese weapons to put pressure on the West.

Classic case: HQ-9

Now it's J-10C.

Turks will tell the West: Hey. If you don't sell me weapons. I will buy Chinese weapons.
I think that's wrong strategy. Turkey lost F35 after S400 deal. Actually, Turkey wants sanction proof force. Turkey right now facing big item embargo from West and US.
 
Anybody with a brain should realize that there's no such possibility.

As I said before, even if China gave them for free, Turkey has no use for them. The fact that they are "cheap" means nothing.


It's like you're trying to complete a jiggsaw puzzle and someone hands you a lego

@Deino
How long does the WS-10 go between overhauls these days?
You know. Even the WS-6 engine of the 1970s. Turkey is still unable to achieve its technical level. lol
 
Useless article for sure - pinkies going for a sales pitch.

Already Turkey has been impacted with their stupid decisions on Russian equipment.
lol. Although Turkey is begging China for J-10C. But China never agreed to sell the J-10C to Turkey.
 
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