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Featured No Buyers For Rafale Jets: Why Almost Every Country Dumped French Rafales Except India?

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The Rafale is one of the most expensive aircraft in the international market. India’s deal of 36 jets is worth Rs. 60,000 crores. Experts argue that the high cost is the result of many reasons including general inefficiency in the country’s defence sector.

Published
16 hours ago
on August 2, 2020

While India is celebrating the arrival of its Rafale jets, military experts have not only questioned its capabilities against US aircraft but also raised questions why the Rafale jets failed to compete in the international arms markets and got dumped by a majority of nations?
Dassault’s Rafale was not India’s only choice as various other global firms expressed interest in the MMRCA tender. Six renowned aircraft manufacturers competed to bag the contract of 126 jets, which was hailed to be the largest-ever defence acquisition deal of India.

The initial bidders were Lockheed Martin’s F-16s, Boeing’s F/A-18s, Eurofighter Typhoon, Russia’s MiG-35, Sweden’s Saab’s Gripen and Dassault’s Rafale.

All aircraft were tested by the IAF and after careful analysis on the bids, two of them — Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale — were shortlisted.

Dassault received the contract to provide 126 fighter jets as it was the lowest bidder and the aircraft was said to be easy to maintain. After Rafale won the contract, the Indian side and Dassault started negotiations in 2012. Though the initial plan was to buy 126 jets, India scaled it down to 36, that too in fly-away condition.

No Buyers For Rafale Jets?

Despite boasting of awe-inspiring capabilities and selected by India after a mammoth testing & bidding process, the French origin jets didn’t see many buyers. Other than France and India, only Qatar and Egypt are using Rafale jets and that too in very limited numbers.

As reported earlier by EurAsian Times, Russian aviation experts had claimed that Rafale jets would have been useless against the Chinese Airforce (PLAAF). The maximum speed of the Rafale jet is about Mach 1.8 compared to Chinese J-16s at Mach 2.2. The Rafale’s practical ceiling is also lower than the J-16s. Even in engine thrust, the Chinese J-16s aka Russian Su-35s are far superior to the French combat aircraft. Even if the Indian Air Force (IAF) was to deploy all 36 of its newly acquired jets, the technical superiority would still be on the side of China, claimed the Russian expert.

The Rafale is one of the most expensive aircraft in the international market. India’s deal of 36 jets is worth Rs. 60,000 crores. Experts argue that the high cost is the result of many reasons including general inefficiency in the country’s defence sector, along with the small scale on which the Rafale is being produced in comparison to rival fighters such as the F-18, MiG-29 or F-35 due to which Rafale has not benefitted from economies of scale. This has contributed to its poor performance in the international markets.

Analysts believe that a major hindrance to the Rafale’s success is that it combines a high cost with a very light and unspecialised airframe, meaning that for countries seeking out a high-end fighter, they will turn to look towards something heavier and with more capabilities like the F-15 or Su-35, while for those seeking a cheap medium or lightweight fighter the F-16V, F-18E or MiG-35 would be more cost-effective.

South Korea and Singapore selected the powerful F-15 over Rafale in the 2000s. In 2015, Egypt purchased 24 of those jets – with an option for 12 more – under a wider arms agreement with France.

The following year, in 2016, the two sides entered into a dialogue with Egypt possibly exercising that option, or even expanding the order up to 24 jets. However, even with high-level dialogue between Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi and French President Emmanuel Macron, Cairo and Paris didn’t finalise the deal. Instead, Egypt inked a deal with Russia to purchase “over two dozen” Su-35 fighter jets.

“Indian media is celebrating the arrival of five Rafales as if they won a war against China. If Rafale is so good, why Oman, Korea, Singapore, Libya, Kuwait, Canada, Brazil, Belgium, UAE, Switzerland, Malaysia refused to buy it. Besides India, only Qatar & Egypt have bought it,” tweeted Ashok Swain, Professor of Peace and Conflict Research, UNESCO Chair of International Water Cooperation.

Rafale’s third buyer, India, previously proposed to acquire 126 jets under Make in India and not 36. However, it took five years for even the first five jets to arrive in India after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced it in April 2015 during his trip to France.

According to Snehesh Alex Philip’s opinion piece in ThePrint, beneath the celebration of the arrival of Rafale jets, lies the harsh reality of India’s painfully slow defence purchases. The Rafale deal and a plethora of procurement, now being done under the emergency clause in the wake of tensions at the Line of Actual Control (LAC), exposes the malaise that continues to shadow India’s defence procurement and planning. “Merely having a large standing Army or an Air Force with aircraft flying on an extended lease of life and without much use against modern weaponry of the enemy, cannot be India’s answer,” he wrote.

According to analysts, despite heavy marketing by the makers of Rafale, France’s relatively small and inefficient defence sector seems to have met its limit with the fighter program. The small production lines are unable to produce the aircraft quickly or efficiently and the French budget for research and development is smaller in contrast to the US or Russia.

The aircraft is priced very steeply and most nations prefer to buy US jets not only because of the technical superiority but also to please the Americans instead of the French. The Rafales have seemingly lost the fight in the international market, despite boasting of excellent qualities.

https://eurasiantimes.com/no-buyers...y-country-dumped-french-rafales-except-india/
 
No other nation will let you configure the jet to carry nuclear weapons. And the initial buyer of Eurofighter is shelving their jets because of high maintenance, that speaks a lot about about it's availability during times of crisis.
 
I like how you "featured" the article unilaterally. I might try this trick too.
 
The Rafale is one of the most expensive aircraft in the international market. India’s deal of 36 jets is worth Rs. 60,000 crores. Experts argue that the high cost is the result of many reasons including general inefficiency in the country’s defence sector.

Published
16 hours ago
on August 2, 2020

While India is celebrating the arrival of its Rafale jets, military experts have not only questioned its capabilities against US aircraft but also raised questions why the Rafale jets failed to compete in the international arms markets and got dumped by a majority of nations?
Dassault’s Rafale was not India’s only choice as various other global firms expressed interest in the MMRCA tender. Six renowned aircraft manufacturers competed to bag the contract of 126 jets, which was hailed to be the largest-ever defence acquisition deal of India.

The initial bidders were Lockheed Martin’s F-16s, Boeing’s F/A-18s, Eurofighter Typhoon, Russia’s MiG-35, Sweden’s Saab’s Gripen and Dassault’s Rafale.

All aircraft were tested by the IAF and after careful analysis on the bids, two of them — Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale — were shortlisted.

Dassault received the contract to provide 126 fighter jets as it was the lowest bidder and the aircraft was said to be easy to maintain. After Rafale won the contract, the Indian side and Dassault started negotiations in 2012. Though the initial plan was to buy 126 jets, India scaled it down to 36, that too in fly-away condition.

No Buyers For Rafale Jets?

Despite boasting of awe-inspiring capabilities and selected by India after a mammoth testing & bidding process, the French origin jets didn’t see many buyers. Other than France and India, only Qatar and Egypt are using Rafale jets and that too in very limited numbers.

As reported earlier by EurAsian Times, Russian aviation experts had claimed that Rafale jets would have been useless against the Chinese Airforce (PLAAF). The maximum speed of the Rafale jet is about Mach 1.8 compared to Chinese J-16s at Mach 2.2. The Rafale’s practical ceiling is also lower than the J-16s. Even in engine thrust, the Chinese J-16s aka Russian Su-35s are far superior to the French combat aircraft. Even if the Indian Air Force (IAF) was to deploy all 36 of its newly acquired jets, the technical superiority would still be on the side of China, claimed the Russian expert.

The Rafale is one of the most expensive aircraft in the international market. India’s deal of 36 jets is worth Rs. 60,000 crores. Experts argue that the high cost is the result of many reasons including general inefficiency in the country’s defence sector, along with the small scale on which the Rafale is being produced in comparison to rival fighters such as the F-18, MiG-29 or F-35 due to which Rafale has not benefitted from economies of scale. This has contributed to its poor performance in the international markets.

Analysts believe that a major hindrance to the Rafale’s success is that it combines a high cost with a very light and unspecialised airframe, meaning that for countries seeking out a high-end fighter, they will turn to look towards something heavier and with more capabilities like the F-15 or Su-35, while for those seeking a cheap medium or lightweight fighter the F-16V, F-18E or MiG-35 would be more cost-effective.

South Korea and Singapore selected the powerful F-15 over Rafale in the 2000s. In 2015, Egypt purchased 24 of those jets – with an option for 12 more – under a wider arms agreement with France.

The following year, in 2016, the two sides entered into a dialogue with Egypt possibly exercising that option, or even expanding the order up to 24 jets. However, even with high-level dialogue between Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi and French President Emmanuel Macron, Cairo and Paris didn’t finalise the deal. Instead, Egypt inked a deal with Russia to purchase “over two dozen” Su-35 fighter jets.

“Indian media is celebrating the arrival of five Rafales as if they won a war against China. If Rafale is so good, why Oman, Korea, Singapore, Libya, Kuwait, Canada, Brazil, Belgium, UAE, Switzerland, Malaysia refused to buy it. Besides India, only Qatar & Egypt have bought it,” tweeted Ashok Swain, Professor of Peace and Conflict Research, UNESCO Chair of International Water Cooperation.

Rafale’s third buyer, India, previously proposed to acquire 126 jets under Make in India and not 36. However, it took five years for even the first five jets to arrive in India after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced it in April 2015 during his trip to France.

According to Snehesh Alex Philip’s opinion piece in ThePrint, beneath the celebration of the arrival of Rafale jets, lies the harsh reality of India’s painfully slow defence purchases. The Rafale deal and a plethora of procurement, now being done under the emergency clause in the wake of tensions at the Line of Actual Control (LAC), exposes the malaise that continues to shadow India’s defence procurement and planning. “Merely having a large standing Army or an Air Force with aircraft flying on an extended lease of life and without much use against modern weaponry of the enemy, cannot be India’s answer,” he wrote.

According to analysts, despite heavy marketing by the makers of Rafale, France’s relatively small and inefficient defence sector seems to have met its limit with the fighter program. The small production lines are unable to produce the aircraft quickly or efficiently and the French budget for research and development is smaller in contrast to the US or Russia.

The aircraft is priced very steeply and most nations prefer to buy US jets not only because of the technical superiority but also to please the Americans instead of the French. The Rafales have seemingly lost the fight in the international market, despite boasting of excellent qualities.

https://eurasiantimes.com/no-buyers...y-country-dumped-french-rafales-except-india/

Hi,

French arrogance gets them most of the times---. They are extremely poor sales people---. They could not sell to a thirst walking in the desert---case in point Pakistan---in the early 2000's.
 
We'll schedule the feature soon.
 
What kind of analysis is this ?

There are several factors playing in the choice of a fighter jet.... Each air force has specific needs and different requirements,some need heavy fighters,others light or medium ones,some need air superiority fighters,others multirole ones etc. There are also several factors playing such as economy and of course politics.

Economically the Rafale didn't benefit from economy of scale as during several years only the French air force acquired it and in quite "small quantities". (180 ordered yet) Many countries rejected it because they considered it to be quite an expensive fighter,to buy and to maintain taking into account their disposable budget. The Rafale outperformed the Gripen and Eurofighter in Switzerland,yet the Swiss went with the Gripen.

Politics can also play a big part in the choice of a fighter and not purely based on the fighter,its price and performances. Morocco chose the Rafale before going with F16s due to US pressures for exemple. One among many others.

There's also another reason which isn't mentioned is we were very bad at marketing,French politicians also torpedoed every breakthrough in negociations Dassault made,something that was fatal in many countries.

While people boast about the Chinese jets on this forum,how many,outside China bought the J10 for exemple ? Does that mean it's a bad jet ?

Despite what people say,the Rafale is the best choice India could have made. Not only for its performances but also politically,France will always back India no matter what..... Very small chances of French sanctions on India,or halting supplies to support the Rafale fleet,no matter what...
-
Let's explain the third million time to people who think "muh India bought a $300 million jet".

According to the French government,the flyaway cost of a Rafale as of economic conditions of 2014 was as follow ;

€78M for a Rafale M (Naval version)
€73M for a Rafale B (Two seater)
€68M for a Rafale C (Single seat)

The €8 billion package India paid includes offsets (half of that cost,invested back in India),training,new infrastructures to induct a new type of aircrafts into the Indian air force,maintenance packages..... undisclosed number of air to ground bombs and air to air missiles,key Indian demands regarding the integration of specific weapons and systems etc.
 
What kind of analysis is this ?

There are several factors playing in the choice of a fighter jet.... Each air force has specific needs and different requirements,some need heavy fighters,others light or medium ones,some need air superiority fighters,others multirole ones etc. There are also several factors playing such as economy and of course politics.

Economically the Rafale didn't benefit from economy of scale as during several years only the French air force acquired it and in quite "small quantities". (180 ordered yet) Many countries rejected it because they considered it to be quite an expensive fighter,to buy and to maintain taking into account their disposable budget. The Rafale outperformed the Gripen and Eurofighter in Switzerland,yet the Swiss went with the Gripen.

Politics can also play a big part in the choice of a fighter and not purely based on the fighter,its price and performances. Morocco chose the Rafale before going with F16s due to US pressures for exemple. One among many others.

There's also another reason which isn't mentioned is we were very bad at marketing,French politicians also torpedoed every breakthrough in negociations Dassault made,something that was fatal in many countries.

While people boast about the Chinese jets on this forum,how many,outside China bought the J10 for exemple ? Does that mean it's a bad jet ?

Despite what people say,the Rafale is the best choice India could have made. Not only for its performances but also politically,France will always back India no matter what..... Very small chances of French sanctions on India,or halting supplies to support the Rafale fleet,no matter what...
-
Let's explain the third million time to people who think "muh India bought a $300 million jet".

According to the French government,the flyaway cost of a Rafale as of economic conditions of 2014 was as follow ;

€78M for a Rafale M (Naval version)
€73M for a Rafale B (Two seater)
€68M for a Rafale C (Single seat)

The €8 billion package India paid includes offsets (half of that cost,invested back in India),training,new infrastructures to induct a new type of aircrafts into the Indian air force,maintenance packages..... undisclosed number of air to ground bombs and air to air missiles,key Indian demands regarding the integration of specific weapons and systems etc.

You milked the Indians and you know it. Of course you will never admit this. Good for France in monetary sense.

Bad news for France is that IAF is a terrible advertisement for Rafale. Once IAF decides to go head to head with PAF and PLAAF the French will find out why selling Rafale was a terrible idea.
 
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What kind of analysis is this ?

it is thought of world class experts who based on their analysis on how they want the world to be. If you buy into their world view and their partial selection of truth & sprinkling of falsehoods everything is quite logical

fyi - i do not understand the Indian air force purchase of 36 Rafales
 
it is thought of world class experts who based on their analysis on how they want the world to be. If you buy into their world view and their partial selection of truth & sprinkling of falsehoods everything is quite logical

Says the false flagger from India. Rafale isn't saving India. You can romanticize Rafale which ever way you like. We all remember how an Israeli upgraded flying coffin was destroyed midair. Mighty Su-30 was shot into pieces. Indians were humiliated. India can have hundreds of F-22s and they will still end up losing.

There is something the Indians lack. It is called cojones.
 
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The selection of Rafale was more strategic and political than the military. What India has achieved from the deal? Technically block all the defense deals btw Pakistan & France including avionics for integration, absolutely safe and secure from sanctions, in future France will always sides with India against Pakistan, soon get more leverage and incentives in the different sectors of business (in both import/export), safe from the U.S blackmailing tho they’re already getting a massive amount of 2nd line defense equipment from the U.S, India now has access to best French defense equipment including nuclear tech.... said this before, Indian defense establishment is not an idiot... that's fine you can humiliate your enemy but at this Rafale deal, India has achieved many objectives. For India’s perspective despite Ladakh Chinese issue, India sees Pakistan as its core enemy so technically Pakistan now limit to China for its defense needs. India applied the same Russian formula here if you see from Pakistan’s POV. Getting 4 mi Hind helis won’t do much, Russian core priority is Indian when it comes to $$$/defense equation. So, the same for French now.
 
Last edited:
What kind of analysis is this ?

There are several factors playing in the choice of a fighter jet.... Each air force has specific needs and different requirements,some need heavy fighters,others light or medium ones,some need air superiority fighters,others multirole ones etc. There are also several factors playing such as economy and of course politics.

Economically the Rafale didn't benefit from economy of scale as during several years only the French air force acquired it and in quite "small quantities". (180 ordered yet) Many countries rejected it because they considered it to be quite an expensive fighter,to buy and to maintain taking into account their disposable budget. The Rafale outperformed the Gripen and Eurofighter in Switzerland,yet the Swiss went with the Gripen.

Politics can also play a big part in the choice of a fighter and not purely based on the fighter,its price and performances. Morocco chose the Rafale before going with F16s due to US pressures for exemple. One among many others.

There's also another reason which isn't mentioned is we were very bad at marketing,French politicians also torpedoed every breakthrough in negociations Dassault made,something that was fatal in many countries.

While people boast about the Chinese jets on this forum,how many,outside China bought the J10 for exemple ? Does that mean it's a bad jet ?

Despite what people say,the Rafale is the best choice India could have made. Not only for its performances but also politically,France will always back India no matter what..... Very small chances of French sanctions on India,or halting supplies to support the Rafale fleet,no matter what...
-
Let's explain the third million time to people who think "muh India bought a $300 million jet".

According to the French government,the flyaway cost of a Rafale as of economic conditions of 2014 was as follow ;

€78M for a Rafale M (Naval version)
€73M for a Rafale B (Two seater)
€68M for a Rafale C (Single seat)

The €8 billion package India paid includes offsets (half of that cost,invested back in India),training,new infrastructures to induct a new type of aircrafts into the Indian air force,maintenance packages..... undisclosed number of air to ground bombs and air to air missiles,key Indian demands regarding the integration of specific weapons and systems etc.

China never offered the J-10 for export. It's a key difference.
 

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