PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Chacha, Mama and Taya problem. Discipline? Koi nahi. Aish kar.

That is worrying. Wondering how Pakistan has survived this long.

If it's okay for you to reveal, can I ask how does the military interact with the PDF staff to prevent certain information from being published here? Is it via ISPR making a request or someone with a direct hotline between the military and the forum admin(s)?

 

[Rafi]

That is worrying. Wondering how Pakistan has survived this long.

If it's okay for you to reveal, can I ask how does the military interact with the PDF staff to prevent certain information from being published here? Is it via ISPR making a request or someone with a direct hotline between the military and the forum admin(s)?

Don't worry MI get involved to prevent more flagrant transgressions. Sometimes the MiL will use these so called "chacha, Mamu" <leaks> to deliberately show a capability.

Yes. This no secret anymore that Bajwa and others in NSC meeting on evening of 26th Feb after Indian attack were not in favour of retaliation. Their argument was that no damage occurred in Balakot strike. This was then CJCSC General Zubair Hayat, Asad Umar who were adamant on retaliating the Balakot strike to deny India for creating such a precedent. IK sided with them too and rest is history.

BS Bajwa would have lost the Army Officers and rank and fire if the forces hadn't retaliated.

 

[The Eagle]

That is worrying. Wondering how Pakistan has survived this long.

No worries. A lot changed. We now knock on the door without any hesitation be it Chacha or Mama.

If it's okay for you to reveal, can I ask how does the military interact with the PDF staff to prevent certain information from being published here? Is it via ISPR making a request or someone with a direct hotline between the military and the forum admin(s)?

It shouldn't be an interest of anyone.
To whom it may concern

No propaganda and diversion tactics here.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

BBC is jumping into the fray:

جے-10 طیارے کن صلاحیتوں کے حامل ہیں اور کیا پاکستان انھیں خریدنے کا خواہشمند ہے؟ - BBC News اردو

پاکستان یا چین نے جے-10 طیاروں کی فروخت کی تصدیق نہیں کی ہے تاہم اگر یہ جدید لڑاکا طیارے پاکستان کی دفاعی فورس کا حصہ بنتے ہیں تو ملک کی سمندری دفاعی صلاحیت مضبوط ہوسکتی ہے۔

www.bbc.com

From the article:

مشرف حکومت کے آخری دنوں میں بھی پاکستان نے اعلان کیا تھا کہ پاکستان چین سے 'جے-10' طیارے خریدے گا لیکن معاشی و اقتصادی مشکلات کے سبب یہ منصوبہ کھٹائی میں پڑ گیا تھا۔ ان دنوں میں بھی یہ اعلان شیخ رشید نے ہی کیا تھا جو اس وقت پاکستان مسلم لیگ (ق) کے وزرا پر مشتمل کابینہ کا حصہ ہوا کرتے تھے۔

It says, previously in the last days of Pervez Musharraf's regime, it was also Shaikh Rasheed who at that time had also announced Pakistan was buying the J-10s.

The article says, nothing is mentioned in the military's Air Book 2021 of this acquisition which is where upcoming acquisitions are normally mentioned.

It also states, this might just be a political gimmick by the incumbent Government to show it's achievements.

Most importantly, it says a retired Pakistan Air Force officer on the condition of anonymity says, the J-10s could increase Pakistan naval influence in the Arabia Sea.

Now, what are the chances that China is actually getting an Air Base in the Southern Pakistan to protect the Gwadar as opposed to Pakistan Air Force actually buying the J-10s?

 

[The Eagle]

Now, what are the chances that China is actually getting an Air Base in the Southern Pakistan to protect the Gwadar as opposed to Pakistan Air Force actually buying the J-10s?

Nada. Please. I don't know how confused you are or is it you deliberately insulting Pakistan and it's capability to defend or like, Pakistan is sold as such. Will you or anyone else, stop your imaginations from running wild and crazy at best. Khuda k liye oh Bhai.

 

[JawadKKhan]

Yes. This is not secret anymore that Bajwa and others in NSC meeting on evening of 26th Feb after Indian attack were not in favour of retaliation. Their argument was that no damage occurred in Balakot strike. This was then CJCSC General Zubair Hayat, Asad Umar who were adamant on retaliating the Balakot strike to deny India for creating such a precedent. IK sided with them too and rest is history.

My opinion on this is that the response would not be possible had any of the services chiefs opposed it. The main player was Chief of Air Staff. The calm & confidence on his face was telling everything.

If it's okay for you to reveal, can I ask how does the military interact with the PDF staff to prevent certain information from being published here? Is it via ISPR making a request or someone with a direct hotline between the military and the forum admin(s)?

I m sure military has lot more stuff to do then to worry about forums or some rumors. Most sensitive project Pakistan undertook was nuclear program. Till 80's the agencies used to have full track of even movement of relatives of the key personals. Numerous experiences only increased the faith on the agencies of that era. The conventional acquisitions doesn't even match a fraction of sensitivities involved. The info's when it has reached family members is already de-classified. That means that info is no longer classified that's why it has reached to that point. Also once a de-classified info is published, there is no mechanism to hide it. The twitteratis / Yts / various blogs will catch it if its really worth attention. Who's going to stop that.

 

[SQ8]

Nope, I dont think so. In close combat more manurable aircraft would always win. Unless the underdog get a purely lucky shot or you are assuming that the enemy aircraft has TVC but can't fire a high off bore missile. You have to Jam the weapon engagement zone of the enemy aircraft. If you go for a 1 circle or 2 circle dog fight, a TVC equipped plane would always be pointing nose at you with ease. A TVC equipped plane would even give a Rafale or RFT a run for its money in WVR. The Indian SU30 is great for WVR. However its said that it has issues with radar and how certain upgrades have been done on it.

Yes - but that nose pointing post stall maneuvering also loses a lot of energy. In a 1v1 or 2v2 it may give an advantage but there are cues to use to negate this advantage. However, given the introduction of high off boresight systems this gets negated. Until the block-3 was introduced Pakistan was at a disadvantage against engaging a su-30 in WVR but that has been fairly negated. That being said - lot was given away in that old Indian red flag video regarding the key issues with the MKI TVC which isn’t a true 3d nozzle but a forced 3d through a diagonal 2d that generated massive drag when used.

However, the astute MKi pilot will likely never have to use TVc because the platform is a great energy fighter regardless.

For an aircraft like the F-22 it uses its TVC(integrated with flight control unlike the MKI where it is an on off button) during LPi LO BVR engagements to induce attitude changes without deflection of control surfaces for signature management. The MKi however has a cross section rivalling the A220 and at times are spotted when they are barely at a 100ft from IAF bases closer to the border.

The IAF made a strategic mistake by assuming that the PAF would not get BVR access for a considerable while and would not be operational for it. Their late 90s ASR focused their force on WVR excellence thinking they will be mixing it up with 32 odd F-16s or mostly WVR focused PAF aircraft not accounting for 9/11 and that shift. Top it off with their harangued acquisition process until Modi where they could not decide on an aircraft for over ten years when having their kitty overflowing!
Today they are catching/caught up and eventually will overtake the PAF again in 5-8 years because their economy is now a juggernaut compared to the banana republic one that is Pakistan’s.

 

[spectregunship]

That is worrying. Wondering how Pakistan has survived this long.

If it's okay for you to reveal, can I ask how does the military interact with the PDF staff to prevent certain information from being published here? Is it via ISPR making a request or someone with a direct hotline between the military and the forum admin(s)?

Whenever such an information is delved out it is mostly in the domain of not being a classified one. Almost every new weapon acquisition that has been finalised is shared with not just 1 star and above but it goes down to the junior most levels so as to give them an understanding of what is about to come and how the military is preparing for capabilities of the future. So I do not see any harm if somebody's relation shares information on latest acquisitions. Besides, people do understand the information that is to be shared is different from the one that is intended for specific ranks only.

 

[Shotgunner51]

material sciences

Material science is a field that Chinese researchers are particularly famous of, far ahead of European peers, as per Thomson Reuters world's top 6 material scientists are all from China. However due to lack of R&D lab/fund in early years most Chinese material scientists either work in US universities or Japan institute (NIMS), in fact several of them are core researchers behind 5th gen single-crystal superalloy (used in blade for aero engine) TMS-162 as well as latest 6th gen TMS-238. In recent decade as China is beginning to provide first class R&D facilities & fund, more and more scientists return home and become the backbone of advanced materials industry.

 

[Big_bud]

I still dont believe in this acquisition until someone other than Shaikh Rasheed confirms it. I see it this way so far.

Why would Pakistan Air Force acquire an aircraft which it has rejected for 2 decades under 3 different Government administrations giving various excuses each time it was offered.

Also, how does having 2 medium-weight combat platforms and 4 light-weight combat platforms at the same time makes any sense for an air force that operates around 400 combat aircraft?

I don't know if I want to be proven wrong or if I'll be happy with a disappointment of this acquisition not materialising.

WS-10 - 140KN class engine, thrust vectoring, bigger better radar, PL15s and maybe PL21s in future. Intra operability with China. Offsets advantage of Rafale and SU30 to a decent extent.

Our F16s - 106 KN
Our JF17 - 84KN
Our Mirage 3/5 - 60.8KN
Our J7 - 64.7

Indian:
Mig29 - 163.16KN
Su30MKI - 246KN
Rafale - 150KN

We needed a slightly heavier single engine fighter. F16s in skilful hands can defend themselves against above. But they still will be hanging from the very edge of their seats. in BVR our F16s have same range as their missiles but if an F16 has to engage in a WVR with the Russian jets or Rafale. They will have a tough tough time. Nose pointing authority of specially SU30 is exceptional. JF has no chance against any of these in a WVR fight. BVR, yes.

I'm expecting with certainty that if any new platform is coming to PAF in future, it would be dual engine only. No more new platform under single engine. India is into an arms race and Pakistan has to follow unwillingly.

 

[Battlion25]

No worries. A lot changed. We now knock on the door without any hesitation be it Chacha or Mama.


It shouldn't be an interest of anyone.
To whom it may concern

No propaganda and diversion tactics here.

His been doing this for ages nothing new bounce him

 

[Titanium100]

Waiting for PAF painting.

View attachment 804266View attachment 804267View attachment 804268View attachment 804269

The same here... I think atleast 2-3 of them will get the Pakistan flag painting while the remaining will get light greyish paint just a prediction tho

 

[Shotgunner51]

WS-10 - 140KN class engine

Yes the massively upgraded C variant (with latest materials and on improved processes) can deliver 142kN as per Janes or 14.5~15.0 tons per Chinese sources, roughly equals to two M88 (which is the weakest of all medium-thrust as compared to RD93, WS-13E, F404/414 or EJ200)

 

[khansaheeb]

Pakistan confirms Chinese ‘Firebird’ fighter acquisition

Pakistan has officially confirmed its long-speculated acquisition of the Chinese J-10C “Firebird” fighter, which will arrive in time to take part in the March 23 Pakistan Day parade.

www.defensenews.com

 

[applesauce]

Pakistan will get good experience planning for S400 during Turk Pakistan air force exercies. I wont worry too much once pakistan learns what the system is and how to counter it.

dont even have to go that far.
china literally got the s400 years before india, and its a given that the PLA would have ran all kinds of tests/practice with it especially knowing that india is likely to get the same system.
if anyone other than the russians knows how to counter the s400, its going to be the chinese.