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Why liberalism is actually the biggest threat which Pakistan faces apart from insurgencies

You should look at dynamics of Pakistani nations and their conservative nature.
Conservative people,even if educated scientifically, will not be that fruitful for research if state doesn't clarify position of religion and science for them.They will give more time to their religion and other social activities but will not recognize the importance of science

While people with secular wisdom will just hate the conservativeness of their co-religionists and finding no space for them in conservative society,they will be heavily influenced by liberal world.

Islam is an important unifying factor for the state of Pakistan.

So By Neo modernism cocept,both will come at some common ground.They will be taught that both of these are important so a better social fabric can be developed.
There just needs to be a state promotion for scientific and technological research, perhaps issue some fatwas or something with the core idea that the Muslim world can never be powerful without such research and advancements, teach about the history of scientific discoveries in the Muslim world. It should be a duty of everyone to make some sort of contribution to the national strength of Pakistan, whether it's through these scientific advancements or even just civilisational contributions in the form of arts, etc.

Ideology should be Pakistani Islamo-nationalism
 
There just needs to be a state promotion for scientific and technological research, perhaps issue some fatwas
Problem is not with figuring out the right fatwas. Nature of scientific discovery is to question. Constantly. That doesn't work if the mind is well trained to accept certain 'facts' as unquestionable. That is the fundamental dichotomy between faith and reason.
 
Problem is not with figuring out the right fatwas. Nature of scientific discovery is to question. Constantly. That doesn't work if the mind is well trained to accept certain 'facts' as unquestionable. That is the fundamental dichotomy between faith and reason.
Fatwas are not even needed at all, I just presented it as a idea

Pakistan is not in a such a state where they deny science, research at low level still goes on as seen by some of the things we produce.

Combination of better quality educational institutions and curriculums, some strong motivation, it'll be fine.

Low morale can be devastating so it's important someone brings stability, increases the morale and focus on rebuilding. There is too much sinister pessimism in the air at the moment.
 
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I understand the frustration but Pakistan cannot live without their patronage and trade regardless of how much your/our ego is hurt. So talk is cheap about establishment giving in to the west. Even IK et-al were customers of IMF so blaming "west" for our own self-created problems is not the solution.
Establishment accelerated the recourse to IMF/West. Even if they had not, any Pakistani government (including IK/PTI) would have arrived at the very same conclusion.

before replying first you must understand what you read:
I was not blaming west I was blaming all the haram khor Pakistanis be it generals or politicians but mostly Generals who started this and brought Pakistan on her knees, even IK had to do it because he does not have a magic wand. Maybe you blame the credit card company I blame the user.
 
You should look at dynamics of Pakistani nations and their conservative nature.
Conservative people,even if educated scientifically, will not be that fruitful for research if state doesn't clarify position of religion and science for them.They will give more time to their religion and other social activities but will not recognize the importance of science

While people with secular wisdom will just hate the conservativeness of their co-religionists and finding no space for them in conservative society,they will be heavily influenced by liberal world.

Islam is an important unifying factor for the state of Pakistan.

So By Neo modernism cocept,both will come at some common ground.They will be taught that both of these are important so a better social fabric can be developed.

It is up to the people of Pakistan what they want to do, and I can only look at the actual results they produce, and not what they claim, as you just did above. Thus far, the record shows that mixing religion with state affairs has produced deadly results, and has kept the entire nation mired in controversy and poverty. If the people wish to change their course, or keep going on the same path, then it is their right to determine that and proceed as they wish.
 
What the heck is his 'analogy'?

He was trying to declare liberalism as being more dangerous for Pakistan as rabies is more so than a gunshot wound, but it depends on where the bullet goes, and whether there is anti-rabies treatment available, obviously. Without a coherent argument, he then went off topic into whataboutery, as expected, that is all. :D
 
You should look at dynamics of Pakistani nations and their conservative nature.
Conservative people,even if educated scientifically, will not be that fruitful for research if state doesn't clarify position of religion and science for them.They will give more time to their religion and other social activities but will not recognize the importance of science

While people with secular wisdom will just hate the conservativeness of their co-religionists and finding no space for them in conservative society,they will be heavily influenced by liberal world.

Islam is an important unifying factor for the state of Pakistan.

So By Neo modernism cocept,both will come at some common ground.They will be taught that both of these are important so a better social fabric can be developed.

Religious people..

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..vs non-religious people

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Society becoming too liberal drives people to religious extremism to counter liberalism and religiously extremist societies disillusions its citizens and drives them to godlessness. They are the two cheeks of the same extremist arse.
 
Society becoming too liberal drives people to religious extremism to counter liberalism and religiously extremist societies disillusions its citizens and drives them to godlessness. They are the two cheeks of the same extremist arse.
The grass is greener on the other side
 
before replying first you must understand what you read:
I was not blaming west I was blaming all the haram khor Pakistanis be it generals or politicians but mostly Generals who started this and brought Pakistan on her knees, even IK had to do it because he does not have a magic wand. Maybe you blame the credit card company I blame the user.
This is where you are wrong. Just like IK had no magic wand, grant the same to others as well including generals like Musharraf.

You wrote "Pakistan must allow everything west asks them to in order to keep haram money coming....this is what our bahadur Establishment has given Pakistan."

What is "haram" about the money flowing from the west whether it is via trade or trade concessions (as in the case of EU's preferential trade deal) or even in the form of loans?

Second, why are the "generals" to be blamed for this? Pakistan has needed assistance because we don't make anything worth exporting. We have expenses in the form of internal and external security. We have poverty, lack of education, lack of healthcare all of which requires money. If you don't make this money yourself, what recourse do you have but to look for preferential trade agreements and in some cases the much hated loans?

Miftah Ismail is on the record saying that in the tenure of PTI, Pakistan's external dues increased at the highest rate ever! So what happened to fiscal responsibility then?

Grant to others what you grant to Imran Khan. Just like he inherited problems, the same applies to any of the military rulers. It wasn't as if they just strolled into a situation where the economy was operating in a surplus.

So as much as you try to paint IK as the knight in shining armor (I admit he is not financially corrupt like NS/AAZ et-al) and save all the contempt for others, know that our economic reality has been bad for whoever was in the office and thus necessitating reliance on the west for loans etc.

In my mind, if you/we don't want this, then we have to extricate our tentacles from expensive ventures like controlling Afghanistan, Kashmir (and thus ending an expensive arms race) and all other experiments in regional influence. This is the cost to pay for having a benevolent existence where your expenses can thus be managed by your meager economic output and you can use more of this money to feed the impoverished people.

If the above is not palatable then we need to rely on all tools to stay economically afloat and also retain our interests in the region which is what the establishment has tried to manage for good or bad.
 
@Great Janjua My personal opinion is that the establishment is well aware of their NGOs and the liberalism they spread, but they believe that since we have Islam, all it takes is one Zia Ul Haq to pretty much instantly reverse the effects.

I would say the truth to this belief is a 50/50 outcome though, as seen by Iran and the anti-Islam protests.

My belief is the best way to promote Islamic beliefs is in a more casual fashion though, make an Islamic studies subject as part of the national educational curriculum alongside the usual STEM...

Some high quality television shows too with educated scholars that can talk in ways that connect with youth too.
 

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