Why liberalism is actually the biggest threat which Pakistan faces apart from insurgencies

[blain2]

Hence my clear observation that bears repeating: Somebody has to do what is needed to be done based on realities, and not political considerations, and we can all see who this somebody will be.

As evil as the "Establishment" is, it is the only entity to get the country to swallow this bitter pill.

 

[VCheng]

As evil as the "Establishment" is, it is the only entity to get the country to swallow this bitter pill.

Agreed. And agreed.

 

[CLUMSY]

Its a universal thing not limited to Pakistan.


Thats your opinion Molvis who abide by the Sunnah and Quran shouldn't be a problem. Liberalism cannot correlate with Religion any way it will always be a tussle.

Humans definitely feel uncomfortable with disclosing such traumating events everywhere of course. But its worsened by misogyny and victim blaming of our society. Religion should not play a role in governance.

That's my point, freedom only exists within the scope of the said society's ideology.

Perhaps only libertarian societies or smth are truly free

I am arguing in favor of libertarianism, which is true liberalism. The liberal society we see today is not very liberal at all (if youre referring to movements like antifa or other left wing movements fighting in the name of liberty)

 

[ThunderCat]

I think everyone would be fine as long as they dont start imposing stuff and insult the majority.

That's what i believe. And that's what we have done for the most part. Mullahs have never won a single election and we were the first Muslim country to elect a woman Prime Minister even if she was a crook.

 

[ThunderCat]

Completely agree with you on that one. Liberalism preaches individual liberty. Look at the western civilization. Feminism, homosexuality, killing babies in womb, gender neutrality, hyper sexualised society and all the similar filth is a gift of liberalism isn't it.

You are describing neo-liberalism. Classical liberalism is more accepting but with limits. Homosexuality can be accepted as a personal choice.

But when it seeks to impose itself on society like British schools being lobbied to teach children about homosexuality. They also want homosexuality to also be recognized as "genetic" when no scientific proof of it exists.

Should pedophilia be accepted as "genetic" without scientific proof? Neo-liberalism also imposes government's responsibility on the people when it's the government's job to full-fill the responsibilities.

 

[AZMwi]

You are describing neo-liberalism. Classical liberalism is more accepting but with limits. Homosexuality can be accepted as a personal choice.

But when it seeks to impose itself on society like British schools being lobbied to teach children about homosexuality. They also want homosexuality to also be recognized as "genetic" when no scientific proof of it exists.

Should pedophilia be accepted as "genetic" without scientific proof? Neo-liberalism also imposes government's responsibility on the people when it's the government's job to full-fill the responsibilities.

And look around you. Where is classic liberalism these days?? All you see is neo-liberalism

The Taliban had no choice but to fight as they were under physical occupation with no choice left. American boots on the ground. Hence the response was calculated.

And you cannot compare those times with today where there are various non-kinetic means to chokehold a nation such as trade and the massive technological gaps between nations today. Use common sense.

Please be realistic instead of living in some fantasy world and trying to drag an entire nation down with you!

The best thing for Muslims is to be pragmatic, I'm not telling you to not be upset but you must assess the pros and cons, cost and benefits.

It would simply be an utterly stupid reaction to have for a country like Pakistan. Having faith does not make you worthy of being a leader, remember this.

The best thing for Pakistan is to build it's indigenous capabilities, stabilise and grow it's economy, become largely self-sustainable.

The appropriate reaction was what Turkey had, not acting like some fictional superhero and expecting to win. That's delusion.

ان غلاموں کا یہ مسلک ہے کہ ناقص ہے کتاب
کہ سکھاتی نہیں مومن کو غلامی کے طریق

You make a great point about the lack of any alternatives available to Pakistan other than the resources of the West. My criticisms of the military and its illegalities are well-known on PDF for over a decade, but even then, I cannot deny that fact that Pakistan has simply run out of options and therefore is left with only hard and harder choices, specially financially.

All the fools dreaming of past Islamic glories while enjoying life in the West, rife on PDF, are doing a great disservice to Pakistan by trying to present an alternative that simply does not exist except in their imaginations. One cannot run a country like Pakistan on mere imagination.

Somebody has to do what is needed based on realities. As much as I call out the military for its illegalities and excesses, I also openly recognize that it is the only entity keeping the country together.

As I have said many times, better to exist deeply flawed than not at all.

And what services you have done so far for MADAR E WATAN??? You said somebody has to do something so why not you become that somebody!!!!!

 

[AZMwi]

So when are you leaving Australia to join such brave Muslims?

The same day you decide to stop being keyboard warrior and actually do something constructive.

 

[ThunderCat]

And look around you. Where is classic liberalism these days?? All you see is neo-liberalism

It has diminished. But it cannot be blamed for the wrongs of neo-liberalism.

 

[Erieye]

What is clear is that the kind of conservative society that you wish for simply does not offer the economic success that you want for yourself.

The US historically has been conservative until recently and sat at the top of the hierarchy even then

they pumped out f15s while saying homosexuality was a mental illness

In 1973, APA Removed Homosexuality From List of Mental Illnesses

Forty-four years ago today, the American Psychiatric Association made history by issuing a resolution stating that homosexuality was not a mental illness or sickness.

www.hrc.org

 

[AZMwi]

It has diminished. But it cannot be blamed for the wrongs of neo-liberalism.

Not diminished, evolved into neolib.

 

[ThunderCat]

Not diminished, evolved into neolib.

No it still exists, even if neo-liberalism devolved/derived out of it.

 

[bababho]

Ignoring reality and trying to solve imaginary problems

Liberalism in Pakistan is at a nascent stage, Pakistan started with certain core values (Islam, Religion over country, Military over civilian administration, jihad over scientific education) first evaluate yourself on the the scorecards which are available rather than discussing imaginary problem

Political setup is shit not because of liberalism, there terrorism/ sectarianism / TTP / TLP / PTM not because of liberalism, Forex are not even close to Nepal's forex not because of liberalism, Fuel / Electricity / Food prices are high not because of liberalism, You have to beg to IMF every 3 months not because of liberalism

 

[TheSolution]

Ignoring reality and trying to solve imaginary problems

Liberalism in Pakistan is at a nascent stage, Pakistan started with certain core values (Islam, Religion over country, Military over civilian administration, jihad over scientific education) first evaluate yourself on the the scorecards which are available rather than discussing imaginary problem

Political setup is shit not because of liberalism, there terrorism/ sectarianism / TTP / TLP / PTM not because of liberalism, Forex are not even close to Nepal's forex not because of liberalism, Fuel / Electricity / Food prices are high not because of liberalism, You have to beg to IMF every 3 months not because of liberalism

This thread isn't about what problems are behind Pakistan's current crisis, if you read some of the above comments we already established it has nothing to do with liberalism

It's more just discussing a separate issue rising at a fast rate which is liberalism in PK

This thread here goes better into it:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/gen-...nal-government-security.759389/#post-14187239

While I'm against liberalism I'm not going to say the state of this country is attributed to liberalism.

It's the lack of meritocracy and nepotism/corruption. Goofs running a country will create an absolute circus.

The thing with Islamic leaders is that they are all reactionary and quite frankly unintelligent - take a look at TLP threatening to bomb France, utter stupidity.

You have to be Islamic but also educated and intelligent. Unfortunately in Pakistan the Islamic are all radicals and extremely reactionary without any sense of pragmatism or geopolitics.

I wish Islamic teachings and curriculum about Pakistan's national identity & history were refined and produced more pragmatic nationalist thinkers who also valued Islamic morals and values in society.

An ideology of Pakistani Islamo-nationalism.

 

[VCheng]

The same day you decide to stop being keyboard warrior and actually do something constructive.

I am just waiting for you to graduate from Suicide Bomber School.

The US historically has been conservative until recently and sat at the top of the hierarchy even then

they pumped out f15s while saying homosexuality was a mental illness

In 1973, APA Removed Homosexuality From List of Mental Illnesses

Forty-four years ago today, the American Psychiatric Association made history by issuing a resolution stating that homosexuality was not a mental illness or sickness.

www.hrc.org

Ever heard of the Summer of Love, or Woodstock? The moon shots were achieved during that decade.

 

[Great Janjua]

Political setup is shit not because of liberalism, there terrorism/ sectarianism / TTP / TLP / PTM

Clown TLP PTM are barely 5 years old you need some history lessons.