Who was behind the fall of the OTTOMAN Empire?

[umairperacha]

Turkey was once a big muslim state Iraq, Saudia Arabia etc were just provinces of that state but then there was a huge secret war agains them and the people or organization involved were Free Mason basically juish in form of muslims they destroyed every thing they made all the plans with bigger powers in WW1 so they could get waht they want, Israel.

 

[EagleEyes]

Originally posted by umairperacha@Nov 19 2005, 06:56 AM
Yes turkey is a secular state its was once a big muslim state Iraq, Saudia Arabia etc were just provinces of that state but then there was a huge secret war agains them and the people or organization involved were Free Mason basically juish in form of muslims they destroyed every thing they made alll the plans with bigger powers in WW1 so they could get waht they want, Israel.

[post=3191]Quoted post[/post]​

Dude i dont think there were any relations between Isreal and the division of Ottoman Empire. If i am wrong please provide some sources.

Thank you. :reading1:

 

[Owais]

Originally posted by Ahsan F@Nov 20 2005, 05:10 AM
Dude i dont think there were any relations between Isreal and the division of Ottoman Empire. If i am wrong please provide some sources.

Thank you. :reading1:

[post=3226]Quoted post[/post]​

There is a huge relation between formation of israel and downfall of ottoman empire.it was their planning to devide them and rule them.thats exactly what is happening. :evil:

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by Viper Z@Nov 20 2005, 03:11 AM
There is a huge relation between formation of israel and downfall of ottoman empire.it was their planning to devide them and rule them.thats exactly what is happening. :evil:

[post=3239]Quoted post[/post]​

please explain with some detailed information.

the ottoman empire fell because the Muslims Faith in the day of judgement faded into greed.

Zionists did actualy ask for land of palestine from the khalif.

but thats about it..they never did have as much power as we assume nor do they have now.

Zionist: a group wanting to create Zion (jewish term for Jerouselam, they want jeruselam to be under the jews power)

FreeMasons: Originated from england some sort of a wierd folk...they believe in Supreme Being.... and are VERY old.

Iluminate: they originated from bavaria and wanted to end kings with democracy...and where behind the French and American revolutions..remember the freemasons where on the english side in the US revolution.

On May 1, 1776, in Bavaria, Dr. Adam Weishaupt, a professor of Canon Law at Ingolstadt University and a former Jesuit, formed a secret society called the Order of the Illuminati within the existing Masonic lodges of Germany. Since Masonry is itself a secret society, the Illuminati was a secret society within a secret society, a mystery inside a mystery, so to say. In 1785 the Illuminati were suppressed by the Bavarian government for allegedly plotting to overthrow all the kings in Europe and the Pope to boot.

this subject is very wierd bizzare and confusing..

regarding devils worshippers.

In Islam it is Haram to take some ones life..only ALLAH reserve that right..and in hadith is sais that these people will say they have the right to take life...wait doesnt that remind us of that guy from iraq who decapitated two pakistans and some other innocent peoples heads...and was planning to decapitate two muslim wemon in FULL Hijaab saying brother please help us. and kalma over and over again??? that guy said something amout reserving the right to kill them because they invaded his country or something.

the devils minions are within us..and every where!! within freemasons, iluminate, house of sauds, pakistan, india, iran..EVERY WHERE!! and in BIG numbers.!...they are normal folk but devils corrupted them as they gained knowledge and influenced their way of thinking to such an extent that they beliefs are completely opposit to those of the muslims.

u can right a encyclopedia of this stuff thats how wierd and bizzare it all is.

 

[Thunder]

There is'nt very much in common between ottomen empire and isreal. The ottoman empire fell in WW1 while isreal was created in 1948 after WW2 and after pakistan gained independence

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by Awais@Nov 20 2005, 05:22 AM
There is'nt very much in common between ottomen empire and isreal. The ottoman empire fell in WW1 while isreal was created in 1948 after WW2 and after pakistan gained independence

[post=3253]Quoted post[/post]​

Zionism has existed for centuries..

 

[VisionHawk]

who was behind the fall of the OTTOMAN EMPIRE?

Ever heard the name of this person LAWRENCE he was an english spy who played a vitol role in breaking the ottoman empire apart by arousing the arabs against the turks and by promising to give them palestine syria and iraq to govern locally but they didnot

 

[A.Rahman]

three words for you : Lawerence of Arabia

 

[Owais]

please explain with some detailed information

Jews want to make a jewish stste there but the presence of a strong muslim country like ottomon empire was making it impossible to gain that land. so, they first broke up that empire, then jews from all around the world(specially europe) begun to settle there and when they saw that there is no strong resistance against that jewish sate, USA and Europe declares the independance of Israel.

 

[VisionHawk]

Jews want to make a jewish stste there but the presence of a strong muslim country like ottomon empire was making it impossible to gain that land. so, they first broke up that empire, then jews from all around the world(specially europe) begun to settle there and when they saw that there is no strong resistance against that jewish sate, USA and Europe declares the independance of Israel

:blahblah1: its not true
the allies want the jews and arab to fight for their side also the ottoman empire sided with the axis (germans) so they were their enemy

 

[antiobl]

Wow! Nasim Hijazi is still alive. Many readers may not know about him. He is the great fiction writer blaming "others" for the end of Muslim rule in different parts of the world. Who are "others"? They are traitors, or foreign powers.

The realty however is different. Societies die when they quit progressing intellectually. Intellectual demise shows up in their lack of advances in art, literature, science, and above all technology. They lose their will to innovate and change in the face of changing environment.

Let's see what Ottomans were doing when Europeans challenged them in the 1500s'.

1. Ottoman schools were backwards compared to the colleges in UK, France, and Germany (Prussia).

2. They had to hire Europeans to come teach Maths in Istanbul. However it turned out to be a short term measure.

3. Ottomans were dependent on Europeans for their needs of steel.

4. Mullahs had stranglehold on the court.

5. Mullahs had killed Turks to stay in Europe (so the Ottomans couldn't keep up with European changes).

and many other reasons.

Ottomans had become so weak that they couldn't stop Portuguese, followed by Dutch, then French, and then Brits. The new European powers used their own trade routes through deep sea lanes. They were no longer dependent on land routes in Ottoman control so they quit paying taxes to them. This resulted in the utter decline in Ottoman economy.

Ottomans tried desperately to bring trade in their territory. They were the first modern power who tried to dig Suez canal but they failed due to lack of funds, and technology.

Ottomans first major defeat came at the hands of Russians in the 1850s war of Crimea. It was so humiliating that Ottomans decline reached a warp speed. WWI was largely symbolic and final nail in the Ottoman coffin. Blaming Jews or Lawrence of Arabia is simply a myopic view of a very complex and tragic decline and death of Ottoman Empire.

 

[Owais]

Originally posted by VisionHawk@Nov 20 2005, 09:12 PM
:blahblah1: its not true
the allies want the jews and arab to fight for their side also the ottoman empire sided with the axis (germans) so they were their enemy

[post=3267]Quoted post[/post]​

I m talking about french, british and USA.
BTW: please explain which side allies want jews to fight? :eyebrow:

 

[Sharjeel]

we keep on talking about the final finaly but who was responsible for weakening the ottoman empire?? was it the khalifs inability or was it his ministers stupidity to assume control...after all in the final days the khalif was but only a symbolic leader and had no control what so ever..all the control was under his generals or his ministers...so could the greed and non concencus of the ministers and generals have been the demise of the khalifatul osmania? if the khalif stayed he would have had ALL rights to do what ever he wanted regardles of political pressure which restrains and holds bak generals and ministers...political pressure in reality is but only a reflection of books, news and other media people read and is controled by the writers of these articles (why is it so important to get newspapers on your side in any ellection campeign?)...whome are usualy nutters like that south asian tribune guy Shaheen Sehbai. although these nutters are good for democracy in the sence that they provide constructive criticism. never the less they can also make a entire peoples hate something or want something...like for example the german conquest of europe or the socialist russian conquest of the world. the powers of writers can be measured by the ecstacy by which russian and german sodliers entered stalingrad to shed their blood for "THE ONLY WORTHY CAUSE".

so who was reali responsible??? the press for uncunstructively critisizing the goverment??? the ministers and generals whome made it possible for the press to attain such power?? or the khalifs inability to govern his khalifat??? or the ministers and generals inability to gevern the empire?

(freemasons are OUT OF THE QUESTION)

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by Viper Z@Nov 20 2005, 12:03 PM
Jews want to make a jewish stste there but the presence of a strong muslim country like ottomon empire was making it impossible to gain that land. so, they first broke up that empire, then jews from all around the world(specially europe) begun to settle there and when they saw that there is no strong resistance against that jewish sate, USA and Europe declares the independance of Israel.

[post=3265]Quoted post[/post]​

actualy no..

the jews did not do anything..it was only some jews whome call them self zionists who first started to settle in palestine. this is like in mid 17th century...the jews realised that the land was mostly jews so why not have the right to govern this land? thats where the zoinist cause gained momentum and started to lobby around for a free isreal...they merely begged people to help them..they did not have enough power to bring the ottoman empire to its knees...only allah has that much power which we assume freemasons and iluminati and jews have lol...it is but only the utter inadiquatnes of our educational system which leads us to believe this..if we read the quran in meaning and read history and other subjects such as totalatarian regimes etc etc we will realise they are not that power full.


when the british finaly destroyed the ottoman empire they wanted the western arabian peninsula for them selfes out of greed...this is where the zionists stepped in and started to campaign for their own land..land of isreal.. lol.....thus the british and the french granted them this land and after much hesitation and pressure from zionist lobys the US president decided to recognise isreal.


the jews had nothing what so ever to do with the fall of the ottoman empire. it is but only their fantasy and dilusion that they did..it makes them feel happy. let them be happy and rejoice in their drunken minds.

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by antiobl@Nov 20 2005, 04:25 PM
Wow! Nasim Hijazi is still alive. Many readers may not know about him. He is the great fiction writer blaming "others" for the end of Muslim rule in different parts of the world. Who are "others"? They are traitors, or foreign powers.

The realty however is different. Societies die when they quit progressing intellectually. Intellectual demise shows up in their lack of advances in art, literature, science, and above all technology. They lose their will to innovate and change in the face of changing environment.

Let's see what Ottomans were doing when Europeans challenged them in the 1500s'.

1. Ottoman schools were backwards compared to the colleges in UK, France, and Germany (Prussia).

2. They had to hire Europeans to come teach Maths in Istanbul. However it turned out to be a short term measure.

3. Ottomans were dependent on Europeans for their needs of steel.

4. Mullahs had stranglehold on the court.

5. Mullahs had killed Turks to stay in Europe (so the Ottomans couldn't keep up with European changes).

and many other reasons.

Ottomans had become so weak that they couldn't stop Portuguese, followed by Dutch, then French, and then Brits. The new European powers used their own trade routes through deep sea lanes. They were no longer dependent on land routes in Ottoman control so they quit paying taxes to them. This resulted in the utter decline in Ottoman economy.

Ottomans tried desperately to bring trade in their territory. They were the first modern power who tried to dig Suez canal but they failed due to lack of funds, and technology.

Ottomans first major defeat came at the hands of Russians in the 1850s war of Crimea. It was so humiliating that Ottomans decline reached a warp speed. WWI was largely symbolic and final nail in the Ottoman coffin. Blaming Jews or Lawrence of Arabia is simply a myopic view of a very complex and tragic decline and death of Ottoman Empire.

[post=3273]Quoted post[/post]​

i totaly agree but not with the mullah part..the mullahs in 1500s where quite intelegent and sophisticated folk..what we know now as mullah is a new breed which became popular 50s onwards. before that mullahs where not at all ignorant and lazy folk. they where quite intelegent and knowledgable. how ever they where declining rapidly in numbers.

we can confirm this by having a look at some punjabi sufis.

Shah Hussain: 1539-1599
Sultan Bahu: 1629-1690
Bulleh Shah: 1680-1758
Waris Shah: 1722-1798
Mian Mohammed Baksh: 1830-1904
Khawaja Farid: 1841-1901