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Pakistani soldiers killed by the Taliban could not be declared martyrs: Munawar Hasan

Dont be silly, this is no time for agitation.

Pak is obviously going through a very sensitive phase right now. There is public uproar against US and drones creating some sympathy for extremists (the political and religious propaganda machine is in overdrive) and these animals are using that as cover to spout more poison.

It is clear that JI and their ilk are trying to undermine the state and it's institutions, which suggests that ultimately they want the same thing as the Taliban. A state in their mould with their rules.
 
You said Pakistan was the fortress of Islam, made for Islam by Muslims. You never defined which Islam. Now to be fair that definition was not required for the enlightened and human lot but for the current crop it is something that overwhelms their intellectual capacity in terms of formulating that definition . Any person or organisation which can cloth itself in Islam and use it as a pretext then becomes a de jure and recognized (as far as the common folks are concerned) group with "legitimate views".

Why does this surprise you? For these folks Pakistan is not defined by the people, not by its institutions or the democratic and representative framework that its founder wanted to enable a prosperous life for its citizens- as far as they are concerned Pakistan is no its government, not its local cultures, not the aspirations of its people, not even the constitution (in terms of defining the state). For them as long as someone, anyone who claims to represent "true Islam" is at the helm its still Pakistan even if all the hazaaras are dead, shias rounded up, sovereignty in terms of foreign policy and economy relinquished...none of that matters as long as the core principle of its founding (as they see it) is maintained in a manner in which they wish to see it maintained (black turbans, back flag and "proper sharia"). The attributes of a state and what the state of Pakistan stands for is condensed into a narrow and un-accommodating scheme..now if only the inconvenient "liberal fascists" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) would up and leave...

Dillinger , the timing is what surprises me , the statement isn't surprising , since these people aren't considered Pro-Pakistan by me and a vast majority of people - mostly educated or tagged " secular/liberal/infidel/communist/Marxists " and what-not :D . Aren't you assuming something wrong here , mate ? Because if I were to agree for the sake of argument , that " the country and religion " weren't properly defined by its founders nor by the people , they were influenced by . Then , it would beg the question that " What exactly are we seeing these things only recently ? " , I mean then the distortion would have to be , from the beginning in that case , right ? Pakistan should have been in the state , it is today , from the day the Founder of the Nation passed away , but that wasn't the case . The reality , my friend , is much different . Both Muhammad Ali Jinnah and Allama Iqbal had a very firm , comprehensive and clear idea of how should the new Islamic state be and how it should be run . It is a common misconception on both that the Muhammad Ali Jinnah wanted a fully religious or secular state , actually he wanted neither of them , he basically wanted a state which is not wholly and strict religious state with secular credentials running on a democratic system , just a place " where Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely " without any " imposition on gun point " - something prevalent today here , a place where every non-Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely too . This is the speech quoted frequently everywhere . However , fate wasn't with us , only after a year after the formation of Pakistan , the founder passed away and since then , the country was taken on a wrong path by different leaders , culminating in the lawlessness , chaos , anarchy , intolerance , extremism and terrorism that we see today . The generations after the people who migrated or lived here before the partition stopped bothering to have a look and think at deep Iqbal's poetry and the Jinnah's speeches on all aspect of running the country and advise to the nation to not go on the path that leads to " destruction " ultimately . One can always curse the wrong decision taken by the leaders - both military and political sure and the failure of the generations after , to study the true purpose and role of Islam , and the ideology their state was founded on , the system the founders wanted to run the country on , the freedom they wanted for all and something the people started to take for granted , until the extremist rose after 2004 and threatened and at times deprived them of such , the revivalism is happening again today . There are people rising in numbers who want to now research the ideas , thinking and thought patterns of the founding fathers . Not for the " uneducated " ones devoid of common sense and not willing to accept logic , reasoning and facts of course , but I can see the change in the attitude of the people - alongside the " radicalization " happening separately .

As for the " fortress of Islam " thing , it was actually something alien to us , brought into the mainstream by the Mullah who convinced the nation afterwards that somehow there existed a sort of brotherhood between like minded Muslim countries - the greatest myth ever created and still believed . The country started to interfere in things - in which it had no stake and no interest to begin with and worse of all , even damaged its own " interests " in the process . That idea comes from the blunder of " putting other nation's interest first " before our " own " , from running the foreign policy on " religion and emotion " rather than " national interests and security " . Jinnah asserted after the creation the famous words " No friends nor enemies in International politics , but only permanent interests " . Why did the leaders and the nation not pay heed then to it ?

Lets make it more clear . You know why it surprises me , the JI and others of religious Deobandi school of thought actually opposed the creation of our country yet migrated to it and started their politics in the same country , they despised . They never have been loyal to the state , they have been loyal to some fictitious brotherhood , they believe in saviors and utopias and they pledge their allegiance to Riyadh instead of Islamabad . But at such a crucial time where the nation is confused about its enemy , at such a time where we are looking for unity against the terrorists who have become a threat to our country , at such a time where twisted religious interpretation carry more weight than common sense/logic , at such a time when the people want to blame everything on foreign powers , they are making such a statement ! Now , you may not be able to understand it properly , not living in this country , but the lack of " public protests " against these nothing short of treason statements , stomping over the grave of our martyrs and just everything that we stand for , is the majority so fearful for its life now that it doesn't even dare to raise its voice against these traitors and or are they " radicalized " to the extent now , that this in indeed acceptable and even something appreciated ? On an optimistic note , maybe they do not give a darn about these leaders , I would like to believe rather than the first two explanations . The worrying part is what is giving these religious leaders the courage to speak such things , to openly speak what is in their mind , to expose their true face in these troubled times , to show once again that they aren't loyal to the country they live in and are fed by . Do they think that the time has come for their dear Taliban to take charge somehow ? An extremist takeover if my worst fears be true ? I do not see it happening though , since the extremists/terrorists control nothing more than even 0.5% of the country but what is it in the minds of those leaders making such statements in public now ? What do they know , that maybe we dont or maybe they are just shooting " arrows in the air " ? Just what !

I will deny not that for a certain group of people , the state is defined by the religion only and not by its characteristics and attributes , they would be willing to destroy their country gladly if it comes to Islam . Sheep in the herd mentality , the submissive thought pattern actually , following blindly the words of " God's viceroy " even if their far far subconsciousness tells them its wrong . Anyone who claims fighting for " Islam " regardless of if he's or not , will be followed with enthusiasm . Actually , these people haven't even learnt the religion by themselves , they gladly and voluntarily gave away the gift of " free and critical thinking " and outsourced all their decisions , ways of life , free will for some promise of " heaven " and " eternal bliss " . Opiate of the masses , they say , right ?

Read this ,

Jinnah wanted to model Pakistan after the United States.
 
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If this does not warrant their condemnation I don't know what will!
 
One thing is for sure -- pakistani army men and US army men both are going either to hell or heaven but they will accompany each other.

These guys got a point. Are you pakistani guys consider US dead armymen as martyrs?

My opinion is pakistanis are more happier seeing US men down fighting taliban but the same is not true with pak armymen. So confused - same entity becomes devil, same becomes hero.
 
Allah ghafor ur rahim does not required their opinion neither they are gods ...

My dear friend , God- the most benevolent and merciful will also not come down too or send someone , to fix up the country . That responsibility lies with us , the nation !
 
Hon Sir,

I was a child of 4 at the time of partition. My father had been a Muslim League supporter during the 30's in his student days and we had cutting of the newspaper 'Zamindar’ by Mualana Zafar Ali Khan. I read these cuttings during 50’s. The paper is long since closed.

Jamaat Islami was against Quaid e Azam and against creation of Pakistan. Quaid was nicknamed ‘Kafir-e-Azam’ by Maulana Maudoodi. JUI was originally part of Jamiat Ulema Hind, a Deobandi party. Head of JUH Maulana Hasan Madani was also against creation of Pakistan. Maulana Madani disagreed with the Two Nation Theory of Allama Iqbal and argued that it was the motherland (Watan) that made a nation, not religion.

Contribution of the JI & JUI in Pakistan movement is “NIL”

All you need to do is to ‘Google’ and you will see that both the JI & JUI were against creation of Pakistan.
I stand by my assertion that the bigot Munawwar Hassan should be tried for Treason for calling jawans of Pakistan Army killed by the Taliban butchers not shaheed, but calling Hakinullah Mehsud shaheed.


Fitna e Modoodiat is still working for 66 years ............
 
You are absolutely right. IK doesn't know politics. Now they are stuck in this problem. IK should get some educate of politics first. Until then let someone else lead the nation. 

He was talking like JI and JUI before like give handing religious department to TTP and :blah::blah::blah: 

"The jawan fighting for Pakistan are not martyred because they were fighting on the agenda of US."
That is what you call the truth and calling a person martyr who is responsible for the killing of approximately 45000 civilians.. :crazy::cuckoo:

Munawar sahab is asking a simple question. When a US/NATO soldier dies in Afghanistan in this War on Terror is not shaheed so an allied soldier killed in Pakistan fighting War on Terror should also not be called a shaheed. There's no need to do so much randi roona on this simple issue by seculars and liberal fascists. Moreover I think this is just the start in coming days JI will be going on overdrive in their 'chitrol' of liberal fascists and beghairat brigade.
 
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Munawar sahab is asking a simple question. When a US/NATO soldier dies in Afghanistan in this War on Terror is not shaheed so an allied soldier killed in Pakistan fighting War on Terror should also not be called a shaheed. There's no need to do so much randii roona on this simple issue by seculars and liberal fascists. Moreover I think this is just the start in coming days JI will be going on overdrive in their 'chitrol' of liberal fascists and beghairat brigade.

Pakistani and US soldiers are not fighting together against a common enemy in a common war . They have different reasons and objectives (opposite to one another), and different enemies . US accuses Pakistan of "double game" and Pakistan accuses US of "scuttling" peace attempts

There is no pakistani soldier fighting Taliban in Afghanistan and there is no US/NATO soldier on pakistani soil fighting TTP

Pakistani Army is fighting against the terrorists who kill innocent Pakistani people on Pakistan soil (US funded terrorists)
 
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enjoy islam the great :partay:
Man i dont know whats your problem You are posting alot of BullSh1t about Islam, Keep Your Crap to yourself And dont open your mouth if you dont know any thing about islam and you are reported 2
 
I am waiting for the day when such mullahs would be called RAW agents.
they are even worst Raw Agents Are Doing Their Job For their countries , they harm Pakistan , and benefit their own Countries but these idiot just for their profit bashing those people who are giving their life's to save their motherland these kind of scumbags should be tortured to death 
bhaiyaji.. even Pak Army and isi are aider of terrorist
My friend UNCLE SAM is the biggest and biggest supporter of terrorism
 
Munawar sahab is asking a simple question. When a US/NATO soldier dies in Afghanistan in this War on Terror is not shaheed so an allied soldier killed in Pakistan fighting War on Terror should also not be called a shaheed. There's no need to do so much randi roona on this simple issue by seculars and liberal fascists. Moreover I think this is just the start in coming days JI will be going on overdrive in their 'chitrol' of liberal fascists and beghairat brigade.

Citizen of U.S , I am asking a simple question too , what " Islam " of yours allows you to kill innocent people indiscriminately just because they do not agree with you ? Do you have the guts to answer it or to agree with me on " Islamic extremism " prevalent and the cause of Muslim downfall ? What Pakistani soldiers are taking part in the fight in Afghanistan if I may know to start comparing them both ? Also how many of them are deployed in your " precious graveyard " ? Suddenly , too much respect is being granted to a person by " terrorist sympathizers " , I see . As for the abusive words , delete them yourself or face the consequences . The nation will see when the so called " pious " Muslims and " Allah's fighters " stop killing innocents and blowing themselves up everywhere to go to their heaven being involved in it , since long ! :azn:
 
Hon Sir,

I was a child of 4 at the time of partition. My father had been a Muslim League supporter during the 30's in his student days and we had cutting of the newspaper 'Zamindar’ by Mualana Zafar Ali Khan. I read these cuttings during 50’s. The paper is long since closed.

Jamaat Islami was against Quaid e Azam and against creation of Pakistan. Quaid was nicknamed ‘Kafir-e-Azam’ by Maulana Maudoodi. JUI was originally part of Jamiat Ulema Hind, a Deobandi party. Head of JUH Maulana Hasan Madani was also against creation of Pakistan. Maulana Madani disagreed with the Two Nation Theory of Allama Iqbal and argued that it was the motherland (Watan) that made a nation, not religion.

Contribution of the JI & JUI in Pakistan movement is “NIL”

All you need to do is to ‘Google’ and you will see that both the JI & JUI were against creation of Pakistan.
I stand by my assertion that the bigot Munawwar Hassan should be tried for Treason for calling jawans of Pakistan Army killed by the Taliban butchers not shaheed, but calling Hakinullah Mehsud shaheed.


You are absolutely right. There is no condemnable thing at least for me in JI. He did not say just in hate of US, he actually said from the core of his heart in hate from Pakistan. Same you can say about Mr. Diesel. For me, most condemnable is why we give these mentally retarded people so much importance. Or let me say as nation we have become so confused that this kind of creature has hatched all around us in this ideological confusion.
 
they are even worst Raw Agents Are Doing Their Job For their countries , they harm Pakistan , and benefit their own Countries but these idiot just for their profit bashing those people who are giving their life's to save their motherland these kind of scumbags should be tortured to death 

My friend UNCLE SAM is the biggest and biggest supporter of terrorism
who do they support ? alQ?
 

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