What has LCA Tejas given to India?

[kaku1]

No, eventhough I'm an alleged hater of indigenous developments and Indian companies, there is nothing that I would like to see more than LCA finally getting ready and I have no doubt that if DRDO gets it's act together they can finish it. So I have no doubt that it can be done, just how much longer it takes and some more doubts on the MK2.



Ideally we should have at least 2 options, but the fact is, that most privat companies only are aiming on license productions and not on proper R&D and long term projects. So all we can do is, to keep inviting the privat companies for more commitment, while making our PSUs more effective and accountable for their work. Only then we will see improvements for the future, not by sidelining the one in favour for the other. It's just as with our prefered import partners! For years we went with Russians, because they offered us their best, while US and Europeans were hesitant to commit themselfs fully. Today things have changed, the US and Europeans are offering more, which gives us the chance to not give Russia monopoly at the Indian market, but to force them to more efficiency, better quality..., through competition.

One, thing I want to ask about procurement of LPH. A country which capable of designing and building a larger Aircraft Carrier, cant be able to design a more simple and lower tonnage LPH. Even why going Mistral or Juan Carlos.

The Naval Design Bureau can design IAC-1/2. But not LPH, what a crap is that? Even why buying a foreign design?

 

[acetophenol]

One, thing I want to ask about procurement of LPH. A country which capable of designing and building a larger Aircraft Carrier, cant be able to design a more simple and lower tonnage LPH. Even why going Mistral or Juan Carlos.

The Naval Design Bureau can design IAC-1/2. But not LPH, what a crap is that? Even why buying a foreign design?

Firstly, aircraft carriers and LPHs are different machines, with different set of requirements. Mercedes Benz may make world class cars, but doesn't mean they can make an autorickshaw better than Bajaj. I am not saying India is not capable of making its own LPHs, but pointing out that designing of one piece of machinery doesn't mean we can do the same on another. The same goes for arguments like "country sending probes to Mars has to import rifles".

Another important point is that, Indian shipyard have their hands already full, especially the Cochin Shipyard, the specialist in large ships. This could've been the reason for going for a ready made foreign option.

 

[kaku1]

Firstly, aircraft carriers and LPHs are different machines, with different set of requirements. Mercedes Benz may make world class cars, but doesn't mean they can make an autorickshaw better than Bajaj. I am not saying India is not capable of making its own LPHs, but pointing out that designing of one piece of machinery doesn't mean we can do the same on another. The same goes for arguments like "country sending probes to Mars has to import rifles".

Another important point is that, Indian shipyard have their hands already full, especially the Cochin Shipyard, the specialist in large ships. This could've been the reason for going for a ready made foreign option.

Whats the actual requirement of LPH for end-user?

 

[Ammyy]

32 years of potential.....

To copy a jet developed by other is easy, even India is doing that with MKIs from long time.
But to built something new even for first time is totally different, till recently China only built Russian copied planes but now they have some of their own.

 

[Imran Khan]

Its give so many threads onpdf

 

[acetophenol]

Whats the actual requirement of LPH for end-user?

1. Size: Should be no more than 215 meters long; and draft at full load must not exceed 8 meters.
2. Aviation facilities: Aviation deck to carry 10 heavy helicopters, up to 35 tons.
3. Troop space: Accommodate 1,430 personnel, including 60 officers, 470 sailors and 900 troops.
4. Load carrying capability: Combination of landing craft, including landing craft mechanized to ferry tanks; landing craft, vehicle, personnel to transport troops; and the fast-moving landing craft air cushion vessels. Should carry six main battle tanks, 20 infantry combat vehicles and 40 heavy trucks.
5. On-board weapons: Point-defense missile system, close-in weapon system, an anti-torpedo decoy system, a chaff system, and heavy and light machine guns.
6. Range and endurance: Endurance of 45 days, with a maximum sustained speed of not less than 20 knots.
7. Propulsion: Powered by electric propulsion systems.
8. Special Features: Specialized areas from hospital facilities to naval command center.
9. Role: Conducting maritime surveillance, special operations, search and rescue, medical support and humanitarian aid.

Its give so many threads onpdf

Imran sahib, thread is about what LCA has given to India!

 

[kaku1]

1. Size: Should be no more than 215 meters long; and draft at full load must not exceed 8 meters.
2. Aviation facilities: Aviation deck to carry 10 heavy helicopters, up to 35 tons.
3. Troop space: Accommodate 1,430 personnel, including 60 officers, 470 sailors and 900 troops.
4. Load carrying capability: Combination of landing craft, including landing craft mechanized to ferry tanks; landing craft, vehicle, personnel to transport troops; and the fast-moving landing craft air cushion vessels. Should carry six main battle tanks, 20 infantry combat vehicles and 40 heavy trucks.
5. On-board weapons: Point-defense missile system, close-in weapon system, an anti-torpedo decoy system, a chaff system, and heavy and light machine guns.
6. Range and endurance: Endurance of 45 days, with a maximum sustained speed of not less than 20 knots.
7. Propulsion: Powered by electric propulsion systems.
8. Special Features: Specialized areas from hospital facilities to naval command center.
9. Role: Conducting maritime surveillance, special operations, search and rescue, medical support and humanitarian aid.

Yup, thats correct, but did this all requirements didnt already accommodated in IAC-1? So, why buying a foreign blueprints?

 

[Imran Khan]

1. Size: Should be no more than 215 meters long; and draft at full load must not exceed 8 meters.
2. Aviation facilities: Aviation deck to carry 10 heavy helicopters, up to 35 tons.
3. Troop space: Accommodate 1,430 personnel, including 60 officers, 470 sailors and 900 troops.
4. Load carrying capability: Combination of landing craft, including landing craft mechanized to ferry tanks; landing craft, vehicle, personnel to transport troops; and the fast-moving landing craft air cushion vessels. Should carry six main battle tanks, 20 infantry combat vehicles and 40 heavy trucks.
5. On-board weapons: Point-defense missile system, close-in weapon system, an anti-torpedo decoy system, a chaff system, and heavy and light machine guns.
6. Range and endurance: Endurance of 45 days, with a maximum sustained speed of not less than 20 knots.
7. Propulsion: Powered by electric propulsion systems.
8. Special Features: Specialized areas from hospital facilities to naval command center.
9. Role: Conducting maritime surveillance, special operations, search and rescue, medical support and humanitarian aid.

Imran sahib, thread is about what LCA has given to India!

Enemy ki bandwirth ki maan behen ker di lca ne or kya kary bechara

 

[kaku1]

@acetophenol read this.
Rs 25,000 crore Navy tender only for private sector: Defence ministry - The Times of India

Did the private shipyard cant make a Indian design, but they are able to build foreign design.

Enemy ki bandwirth ki maan behen ker di lca ne or kya kary bechara

Lol, he is talking about LPH not LCA.

 

[acetophenol]

Yup, thats correct, but did this all requirements didnt already accommodated in IAC-1? So, why buying a foreign blueprints?

To point out a few,

1. IAC does not need to be amphibious and carry landing crafts and combat vehicles, LHD do.
2.IAC does not need to accomodate troops, LHD does.
3. IAC can wait, LHD are a more urgent requirement.

 

[Imran Khan]

@acetophenol read this.
Rs 25,000 crore Navy tender only for private sector: Defence ministry - The Times of India

Did the private shipyard cant make a Indian design, but they are able to build foreign design.



Lol, he is talking about LPH not LCA.

Humy to bus LPC or KLPD ka pata hai maharaj

 

[kaku1]

To point out a few,

1. IAC does not need to be amphibious and carry landing crafts and combat vehicles, LHD do.
2.IAC does not need to accomodate troops, LHD does.
3. IAC can wait, LHD are a more urgent requirement.

No, my point is not that. IAC never designed for such roles. But these things cant be accommodated in Indian design.

One thing, designing a STOBAR carrier is much much difficult task than designing a LHD/LPH.

 

[acetophenol]

@acetophenol read this.
Rs 25,000 crore Navy tender only for private sector: Defence ministry - The Times of India

Did the private shipyard cant make a Indian design, but they are able to build foreign design.

Considering the nature of the tender and its strategic importance , I believe the Navy may not be ready for a 'trial and error' ,does not want to risk going wrong on first time designs, and preferred existing ships instead.

No, my point is not that. IAC never designed for such roles. But these things cant be accommodated in Indian design.

One thing, designing a STOBAR carrier is much much difficult task than designing a LHD/LPH.

The main point I am trying to make is that, things don't work that way. Agreed, Aircraft carriers are more challenging to be made that LHDs. But that doesn't mean LHDs are easy to make either. Both pose a different set of challenges.

 

[kaku1]

Considering the nature of the tender and its strategic importance , I believe the Navy may not be ready for a 'trial and error' ,does not want to risk going wrong on first time designs, and preferred existing ships instead.



The main point I am trying to make is that, things don't work that way. Agreed, Aircraft carriers are more challenging to be made that LHDs. But that doesn't mean LHDs are easy to make either. Both pose a different set of challenges.

Most of the feature and even important features LHD, already developed in IAC. Designing a 20k- 25000 tonne will not be much difficult task for NDB.

 

[Dillinger]

Most of the feature and even important features LHD, already developed in IAC. Designing a 20k- 25000 tonne will not be much difficult task for NDB.

Not particularly. A lot of people think that a seaworthy amphib can be simply derived from a carrier, its not that simple. There are challenges involved. Trying to pack an appreciable number of men and stores on a ship with a well-deck and hangar/garage facilities will require major internal re-design of a carrier. Can we design an amphib? Yes, but it will take quite a bit of time, specially since the NDB has its hands full.