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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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there will not be any major result of a plebiscite.
all the kashmiris will choose independence over accession to other country, which both the countries will never accept.
& the people of jammu & ladakh will chose to remain with india rather than becoming independent or joining pakistan, while the people of northern areas will never want to join india.
so whats the use of having a plebiscite.
 
Interesting...As far as independence goes..Pakistanis clearly support Kashmiris will...if they want to independent state then Pakistanis will support them regardless of Official Pakistani GOP Stance.Independent Kashmir will of course have a lot of Pakistan's Influence and that territory will act as a buffer between India and Pakistan.I far one support establishment of new Kashmir state comprising of both AJK and J&K.

Thats is not the accepted meaning of Independence my friend.:lol:
 
Read the survey carefully - the IaK results are skewed because support for independence in predominantly Hindu Jammu is around 1%. The support for independence in IaK proper 'is between 74% and 95%'

So wat sir..?
According to the UN ....there can be no bit by bit plebiscite...

Everything is taken as whole...the whole of J&k,Azad kashmir,Northern Areas and the area occupied by China.

They all as a whole,as a single entity can become independent or join any other country...not one piece willing to remain independent,another opting to join either country.
 
Read the survey carefully - the IaK results are skewed because support for independence in predominantly Hindu Jammu is around 1%. The support for independence in IaK proper 'is between 74% and 95%'

So wat sir..?
According to the UN ....there can be no bit by bit plebiscite...
Everything is taken as whole...the whole of J&k,Azad kashmir,Northern Areas and the area occupied by China.

They all as a whole,as a single entity can become independent or join any other country...not one piece willing to remain independent,another opting to join either country.

Perhaps, people of Jammu and other non-Muslim dominated areas might not be so pro-Independent, but as the survey says Muslims in the area show nearly unanimous support for Independence.

Answer this question:-

Will the people of India accept an Independent Kashmir? Will the GoI accept an Independent Kashmir? I'm not questioning Pakistani and GoP view, I'm asking opinion from your side and let's say that Kashmir decides Independence and chooses to have good extensive relations with both India and Pakistan and decides not have any armed forces of its own. Will there ever be the decision or intention to capture Kashmir again from GoI? As I said earlier, your side only, do not bring GoP or Pakistanis in your reply.

No...After this much blood shed ,3 wars fought,so many brave sons lost will it not be self defeating to give away Kashmir..?
Will not those matryrs blood go in vain..?
And most importantly giving freedom to Kashmir will fuel many more demands from many regions as India is a multi-cultural,multi-ethnic society.
It is this trend that GOI fears and rightly so.
And frankly an Independent Kashmir is not possible sandwiched between 3 nuclear powers - India,Pak and China.
It will result only in a game being played like the one in Afghanistan with the Kashmiris once again paying in blood.

Well said.

So in order to ensure peace you can go to any extent. You will even give your home to ensure peace??????
This is not the solution. If we today agree to give Kashmir to india (to ensure peace :angel: ) tomorrow she will demand Gilgit-Baldistan (and so on). There is no way to satisfy indian hunger.

For ur kind information India already claims ur entire P-O-K, and northern areas as our own terrirtory under the illegal occupation by Pakistan.
But for the sake of peace we r ready to convert the LOC into IB meaning P-O-K,Northern Areas (GB) become Pakistani areas like Punjab,NWFP and J&K becomes Indian state with article 370 repealed.
 
So wat sir..?
According to the UN ....there can be no bit by bit plebiscite...

Everything is taken as whole...the whole of J&k,Azad kashmir,Northern Areas and the area occupied by China.

They all as a whole,as a single entity can become independent or join any other country...not one piece willing to remain independent,another opting to join either country.
The UNSC would not argue against a decision by both India and Pakistan to adjust the manner of holding the plebiscite from one single one to multiple ones.

It would likely issue a new resolution overruling the previous ones and delineating the process of dispute resolution in this manner.
 
The UNSC would not argue against a decision by both India and Pakistan to adjust the manner of holding the plebiscite from one single one to multiple ones.

It would likely issue a new resolution overruling the previous ones and delineating the process of dispute resolution in this manner.

So I hope in the forthcoming talks amendment in UNSC Resolution to include "Independent Kashmir" will be proposed by Pakistan. It will be an entirely new discussion because this has never ever even fleetingly suggested by GoP.

BTW has anyone thought about a scenario when more than two options are provided, there might not even be a clear decision (As indicated by the Poll in question / earlier polls). Lets say 45% opt for Independence and remaining 55% are distributed between India and Pakistan, the position will still remain as obscure, because even Independence would be against the wishes of 55% of Population.

What happens to the Kashmiri vews then??

Anyways, I am surprised at the number of times UNSC resolutions are sighted by Pakistani members, when Both Pakistan and India have already violated its terms several times over and demography has been permanently altered on Pakistani side.
 
demography has been permanently altered on Pakistani side.

I have yet to see credible evidence of this 'massive alteration of the demographic balance' beyond the few hundred settler families sent into G-B by Zia.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

So I hope in the forthcoming talks amendment in UNSC Resolution to include "Independent Kashmir" will be proposed by Pakistan. It will be an entirely new discussion because this has never ever even fleetingly suggested by GoP.
That would depend upon whether India agreed to such a change, along with Pakistan.
 
Just 2% of people in J&K want to join Pak: Survey

NEW DELHI: For those who still think a plebiscite will tilt the status of Kashmir and that most Kashmiris yearn to wave the Pakistani green, there are now numbers for the first time to contradict these claims.

A survey carried out across both Jammu and Kashmir and ***************** Kashmir, that its author claims is the first ever of its kind, shows that only 2% of the respondents on the Indian side favour joining Pakistan and most such views were confined to Srinagar and Budgam districts. In six of the districts surveyed late last year by researchers from the London-based thinktank Chatham House, not a single person favoured annexation with Pakistan, a notion that remains the bedrock for the hardline separate campaign in Kashmir.

However, the study by Robert Bradrock, a scholar from London's Kings College, that involved interviewing 3,774 people in both parts of Kashmir in September-October 2009 showed that 44% of people on the Pakistani side favoured independence, compared to 43% in Indian Kashmir.

Bradrock says in the 37-page report on the survey that this would put an end for all times to come to the plebiscite route as a possible way to resolve Kashmir, since the only two options envisaged under the UN resolutions proposing plebiscite in 1948/49 were for the whole of Kashmir to join either India or Pakistan; azadi was not an option. But in the Valley, the mood for azadi still remained strong, with 75%-95% respondents favouring that as a final resolution.

The poll showed no support either for joint sovereignty or for maintaining status quo. However, more than 58% of those surveyed were prepared to accept the Line of Control as a permanent border if it could be liberalized for greater people-to-people contact and trade. Only 8% voted against making the LoC a permanent boundary, with the highest level of opposition in Anantnag district, the report said.

Few people in Kashmir, compared to many more in ***, believed that violence was likely to resolve the Kashmir issue.

In J&K, only 20% thought that militant violence would help solve the problem, compared to nearly 40% who thought it was coming in the way of a resolution. In ***, 37% of those surveyed held the view that violence was a possible route to resolution.

That both the state legislative elections in 2008 and the Lok Sabha elections in 2009 had helped bring about a change in mindsets was seen in the increasingly high turnouts that Kashmir has posted in recent years.

The survey too demonstrated that trend, with more than half the respondents saying the elections had improved chances for peace.

"The results aren't surprising at all. I feel they re-emphasize the need to look beyond traditional positions and evaluate the contours of a solution grounded in today's realities," said Sajjad Lone, a former ally of the Hurriyat who unsuccessfully contested the 2009 election.

Peoples Democratic Party chief spokesman Naeem Akhtar said the azadi aspirations must be factored into any solution.

"It can't be wished away and has to be configured into the future strategy on Kashmir. We've always been pleading to provide an alternative to the azadi sentiment."

Source : Just 2% of people in J&K want to join Pak: Survey - India - The Times of India
:cheers:
 
I have yet to see credible evidence of this 'massive alteration of the demographic balance' beyond the few hundred settler families sent into G-B by Zia.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

They have been provided several times just that you choose to look past just as you did on all the other points. Alteration has actually not only been on Pakistani side, it has been on Indian side as well with Lakhs of Kashmiri Pundits thrown out of their native place and now dispersed across India.

That would depend upon whether India agreed to such a change, along with Pakistan.
Yeah but atleast make an official suggestion first. Why not take an initiative to show they actually are willing to walk the talk. India and Indians have never been pro independence, it is the moral high ground taken by Pakistani in debates such as these. During talks reality has been different.

What Happens in there are no clear winners from this??
What about violation of terms of UNSC resolution several times over??
 
But likely still no guts to hold a plebiscite :D

It is not a question of winning the contest. Its a stand taken with consideration of prevailing scenarios, which do not justify any such elections to be organized. UNSC Resolution are from Dinosaur era, clinging onto them would take us nowhere.
 
Kashmir has to be made independent. It is the best solution - even Pakistan will support that if it's tabled.
 
Kashmir has to be made independent. It is the best solution - even Pakistan will support that if it's tabled.

Yeah sounds good does it not??

Show one Instance where Pakistan tried to table it. I am not talking about interviews and rallies but in talks where it actually counts. We have heard about the treatment of Pro-independence in Pakistani Kashmir.

Just reminds me I asked you to explain one of your posts you never did.
Pakistan has always pushed for plebiscite, not simple integration. The rules of the plebiscite always clearly state that they may join India, Pakistan or choose Independence. So we're quite open to the idea of a Kashmiri independence.
HOW??
 
AM, what is the use of plebiscite whose results if unfavourable to a party wont be accepted fair?
:cheers:

Why won't they be accepted as fair if the plebiscite is held transparently and by the UN, with monitors from both sides and the international community, and a withdrawal of the majority of security forces from the region in question, replaced by UN peacekeepers.
 

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