2,450 expats embrace Islam in Saudi Arabia

[kbd-raaf]

Can subjecting a Philospohical phenomenon to the laws of science yield a variable result?

If an experiment is incapable of producing variable results, it means that the experiment itself is either invalid or it needs to be changed.

Okay so in other words you're saying that religion is a philosophical phenomenon. In other words, it exists only in the minds of the faithful and not in reality? That is exactly what I'm saying too.

 

[KingMamba]

Lol....the Chinese boys aren't always the brightest....but they knew to run when they saw this!


I'm agnostic (still respect Christianity as part of my culture....as I'm sure many Hindus consider it more culture than reality)....but living in the US...Christianity is in NO danger from anything except atheism.

I never said they were becoming any other religion just that they were losing overall Christians. True Christians holidays have become a part of American commercial culture even I end up spending on Christmas because I have to get presents for my friends who get me presents anyway lol.

I gave an example from UAE.

Zakat Fund to give Dh1 million for 100 converts | The National

One from Nigeria.

NigerianEye: Governors Shower Cash on Christians that converted to Islam

Well governors aren't missionaries but I see your point but I see nothing wrong with giving zakat to new muslims if they are poor as that is the point of zakat, to help any and all poor.

 

[Kompromat]

Okay so in other words you're saying that religion is a philosophical phenomenon. In other words, it exists only in the minds of the faithful and not in reality? That is exactly what I'm saying too.

What is 'reality' ?

 

[Audio]

Why would you think that? Luckily three Muslim Countries have got them or are on the way to get them soon. Pakistan has got them already, Iran is on the way and Saudi Arabia is said to have received them from an unknown friendly country. If you think Muslim World will be mushroomed, why do you think non-Muslim world would be not?

Ever heard of ABM? And the small number of delivery systems there are in Pakistan? Allegedly disasembled? Not even sure if the missiles have the range to threaten anyone but India.

But why would be Muslim Countries mushroomed? Your visible hatred for Islam aside, what makes you so irrational and out of logical thinking? Any personal experiences or you just hate Islam because it hurts your business?

I like how you play innocent and blame me for Islamophobia. Below is your quote.

Mashallah. Russia will also appear as a new Islamic State and in few decade Europe. Light is spreading even though media has done its most to defame Islam.

Your ilk needs to be suppressed because it's a threat to humanity and civilization itself. It's simple. One just has to look at all the stan's.....

Not to mention you're just peddling unsubstantiated BS, disproved a number of times. An over zealous Muslim, like so many before.

That is true but we are also witnessing "prosperity" in Christian Countries who are turning towards by embarrassing Islam. After all the heat which you guys are feeling is there because of a reason.Its an Ummah's concept. I am in Australia and Muslim brotherhood here in on the rise. Previously there used to be one Muslim suburb in Melbourne, now we have got two. Alhamdolillah.

Yup, prosperity, you said it correctly. It must be the lack of prosperity that has kept you in Australia lol.

Think of it from another angle. If all countries would be Muslim, where would you be working as an immigrant then?
You know there's are reasons why many go to the "non prosperous" Christian countries. One of them is, their home country is so fucked up (hint Xyz-stan) and the natality is so high, that there simply aren't enough jobs for newcomers to the labor market.
If we then extrapolate the "skillful" leadership that Muslim countries have, well, to put it simply, you'd destroy everything in 2 decades if Islam ever became the prevalent religion around the better developed parts of the world.

 

[Juice]

Metaphysics is NOT science!
noun: metaphysics

1. 1.
   the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.
   • abstract theory or talk with no basis in reality.
     "his concept of society as an organic entity is, for market liberals, simply metaphysics"

EDIT: It not even FRINGE science.

Your take @kbd-raaf?

Oh...and continuing on what I mentioned in post #226
Religion manifests it self in Games like Age of Empires too.

Remember the Babylonian, Roman priests which could even convert catapults?

Or the latest Civilization 5, in which I converted Jerusalem to Islam and Mecca to Christianity....an awesome game mind you

I always try to found Confucianism, and then stamp out all the heretics!

 

[kbd-raaf]

What is 'reality' ?

Now we are really delving into philosophy

Anyway in real life I'm very tolerant. It's a testament to the anonymity of the Internet for my earlier post, I'm not actually so insufferable in real life .

 

[Arabian Legend]

As I said in my post earlier(if you had bothered to read it), you can twist it and sugar coat it as much as you want but it is what it is.

Are you telling me there are no poor Muslims in the world and there these people needed to convert people and then hand out the Zakat money?

Those people whom you are referring to have converted out of their free will. There is no compulsion in region as the Quran clearly stated.

If this doesn't equate to "convert to Islam and then get paid" then I don't know what does.

Here's another example from Malaysia,

Again you are talking about people who already converted to Islam so they are Muslims.

You have nothing that can support your claims over this matter so please save your face.

Zakat is for Muslims only so the accusation that be a Muslim and get paid don't really function here.

Zakat has its own rules and conditions. I don't really expect you to know that since you are not a Muslim.


Adios

 

[Zarvan]

Oh totay ki nasal, what they do in a foreign country is screw Islam's image. When you have mothers making their kids wear 9/11 shirts which will antagonize ( make people angry ) the local populace, have these 'sharia patrols' which are strictly anti-Islamic as you cannot make someone do anything Islamic anywhere on earth. Not even is your own country as it has no legal or religious ( Read Islamic ) base to make people do what you think is right. The Australians Muslims had huge protests and good lord the mess they created for themselves.

You guys are doing exactly the opposite of what you wish/dream/claim/delude yourself of. This struggle for ummah has caused us Muslims to divide into groups. You have this delusion all of this brotherhood will become one, not until you mend your ways and become soft and respectful of other Muslims wishes, not until you stop pointing and make someone "wajib-ul-qatal". This heavy handed way of ummah hasnt worked and will not work.

Hosla karein.

This is the most dumb and stupid thing to say that thinking off ummah has divided Muslims not thinking and working for ummah has divided Muslims and we need work for ummah and those who are traitors off ummah are basically traitors off Allah and his prophet this is not delusion this is fact but enemies off Islam and Muslims talk shit because they are full off shit

 

[Kompromat]

Now we are really delving into philosophy

Anyway in real life I'm very tolerant. It's a testament to the anonymity of the Internet for my earlier post, I'm not actually so insufferable in real life .

Spirituality and Science are two different dimenstions which can't prove each other, either right or wrong.

Religion's' are the language of interpeting a 'bigger reality'. Its like a cloud to which our computers are linked to but display a different database to each one of us.

Those who 'follow' it, more often than not don't find it, those who 'live it'....discover other dimensions.

'Everything is connected' .... and religions are just signposts that can lead you to a destination. Religion itself is not a destination, it never ought to be, its a path, and its rules are signposts.

In the end as Saadi said 'World is a mirror'.

 

[Zarvan]

Spirituality and Science are two different dimenstions which can't prove each other, either right or wrong.

Religion's' are the language of interpeting a 'bigger reality'. Its like a cloud to which our computers are linked to but display a different database to each one of us.

Those who 'follow' it, more often than not don't find it, those who 'live it'....discover other dimensions.

'Everything is connected' .... and religions are just signposts that can lead you to a destination. Religion itself is not a destination, it never ought to be, its a path, and its rules are signposts.

In the end as Saadi said 'World is a mirror'.

Just close this thread it's off no use further

 

[Kompromat]

Just close this thread it's off no use further

Okay, Jaisy aapka hukm, zarvan bhai.

 

[Roybot]

Those people whom you are referring to have converted out of their free will. There is no compulsion in region as the Quran clearly stated.



Again you are talking about people who already converted to Islam so they are Muslims.

You have nothing that can support your claims over this matter so please save your face.

Zakat is for Muslims only so the accusation that be a Muslim and get paid don't really function here.

Zakat has its own rules and conditions. I don't really expect you to know that since you are not a Muslim.


Adios

I can't believe you can't see the fallacy of your argument. Let me try again.

So there is a pile of cash sitting there, lets call it zakat money. The zakat money foundation guy goes, this money is meant for needy Muslims, I wish I could help you, but you are not a Muslim. So the non Muslim needy guy, converts out of his own "free will", so that he is eligible for the zakat money.

If that is not incentivizing then I don't know what it is! Anyways to each his own.

 

[Informant]

This is the most dumb and stupid thing to say that thinking off ummah has divided Muslims not thinking and working for ummah has divided Muslims and we need work for ummah and those who are traitors off ummah are basically traitors off Allah and his prophet this is not delusion this is fact but enemies off Islam and Muslims talk shit because they are full off shit

Tu totay ki nasal hai, tarr tarr hi karega. What some one tells you, you spew. Mindless drone.

 

[graphican]

Ever heard of ABM? And the small number of delivery systems there are in Pakistan? Allegedly disasembled? Not even sure if the missiles have the range to threaten anyone but India.

Good for you if Pakistan doesn't have range to threaten USA and any other country you are considering but think who is that which wants to nuke here? I never said Pakistan would nuke you or your country neither I have frustration you keep.

I like how you play innocent and blame me for Islamophobia. Below is your quote.

Mashallah. Russia will also appear as a new Islamic State and in few decade Europe. Light is spreading even though media has done its most to defame Islam.

Whats wrong with this post? Mashallah means "May Allah bless this act" and rest is plain English. Which part hurts your neck? When Europe is turning Muslim, they are choosing by choice and by free-will. You should appreciate that Islam is spreading and busting all the myths of "more children", "migration" and "spreading by sword" theories you have been poisoned with. What is your point of pain here?

Your ilk needs to be suppressed because it's a threat to humanity and civilization itself. It's simple. One just has to look at all the stan's.....

Sure, if something is threat to humanity, it should be stopped from spreading and here we can see who is threatening. If you find problem in Islam or Sharia, I had told you to point it but you are only filled with opposition without even knowing what you are opposing. I had challanged you to convert me by providing Sharia or Principles of Islam as wrong and I will be happy to live that life which you want everybody to live. But you failed to mention even one. Do you see where is the problem?

Not to mention you're just peddling unsubstantiated BS, disproved a number of times. An over zealous Muslim, like so many before.

Disapproved by who? Here in the very forum we are finding thousands of non-Muslims embracing Islam and you know and identify that Islam is on the rise. If Islam was disapproved, why are people embracing it at such a rate in all corners of the world?

Yup, prosperity, you said it correctly. It must be the lack of prosperity that has kept you in Australia lol.

Let me show you the mirror here.

• Population of Australia ~ 23 Millions.
• Percentage of Immigrants = 24% of total population
• Out of top 25 countries where immigrants come only 1 country is Muslim and rest of Christians, Buddhist or Hindu.

If you put in terms of Prosperity, we see who is lacking prosperity as majority of immigrants are coming from Christians countries. Feeling ashamed on your nonsense yet?

Think of it from another angle. If all countries would be Muslim, where would you be working as an immigrant then?

If all countries were Muslim following Sharia, there would be no immigrants as in Islam, there is concept of Ummah and not boundaries or borders. But if I had opportunity to live and work, I would choose Saudi Arabia where 2,450 expats went and embraced Islam. Guess what, they were all non-Muslims gone to Saudi Arabia in search of work. What answer do you have for they being in a Muslim Country?

You know there's are reasons why many go to the "non prosperous" Christian countries. One of them is, their home country is so fucked up (hint Xyz-stan) and the natality is so high, that there simply aren't enough jobs for newcomers to the labor market.

True but it is not f*ed up being a Muslim country. Your United States is on the verge of collapse and total debts are exceeding the total monitory value it owns... but whatever is pulling USA down is the same which is disturbing our economy. Once this 'prospering' country leaves Afghanistan, our country will get back. But you are only trying to spread noise with such arguments as you just want to oppose for the sake of it, even if it doesn't have anything to do with Islam. Such a shining star you are!

If we then extrapolate the "skillful" leadership that Muslim countries have, well, to put it simply, you'd destroy everything in 2 decades if Islam ever became the prevalent religion around the better developed parts of the world.

You are missing one simple fact that ISLAM IS SPREADING in those better parts of the world. Its not "IF" thing anymore and it "IS" happening. But I don't see Russia destroying which has 15% Muslim population and it is expected to have that number rose up to 25% within a decade.

But let me analyze your condition here. You only have hatred and no arguments.. you even lack basic understanding of about Islam and you are hating it as if you knew it inside out. I challenged you to find problems with Islam and if you are logical, we all can leave Islam and convert to Scientology or Christianity or even Judaism if you would like but here we have a BIG IF. You are not prepared to do anything but show your inner insecurity and sheer hatred without having a reason for it.

Before I conclude, I am offering you that challenge again. Are you ready to hate Islam after knowing what you are hating? I will be happy to help you learn it first. Are you ready?

 

[Cloakedvessel]

First of all, feel sorry for talking about nuking Muslims as if being non-Muslim you were rightful to do that. This was the height of being inhuman for killing somebody because he/she was following a faith. Would you agree?

But let me show you some more contradictions if I may

This is the extract of your arguments

• Muslims have, on average, more children than non-Muslim families. You talk about having more people is bad because it is limiting world's resources. Muslims constitute 23.2% of world's population and Christians stand at 31.59%. So revisit and see who has produced more humans and if we are to reduce human number, we know where we need to begin - BUT - its your argument and I do not agree to that.
  
• Uneducated and deprived accept Islam, but later you mention every religion has capitalized on such class of societies, but you stopped short without explaining that why has "other" religions stopped capitalizing on poor anymore? Have other religions stopped existing or are they not a solution to poor anymore? As you mention, Islam is gaining ground in them, there must be a reason why it is happening. Got any explanation?
• For the bold part, you are on one side happy for Muslims who have stopped following the book (perhapes) and not happy from the newly converting ones or the ones who produce more offsprings. Where is the problem for you? Muslims following book and sticking with basics? If so, you are appreciating deviation from the book which ultimately means developing new rules. Today no Christian (like Muslims) marries their brothers and sisters. If you leave basics, you could marry anybody. But no this is not ethical is it? How about robbing or stabbing somebody on the street? Obviously not a human act and neither Judaism, nor Christianity neither Islam asks you to do any of them. Good that they have common human philosophy. So where does your problem start? Why following some rules in Islam is acceptable and following other from the same book is unwelcomed to the level that you want to "nuke" those who follow? We worship the same God as Christians do.. what hurts you in the whole process?
• For the blue part, Sharia is law which is fundamentally based on equality and justice. How much do you know Sharia? Today banks are destroying the world and you find anti-bank movements everywhere.. but no one has the alternate except Islamic Sharia. Rape are worst human abuse, no one has solution to it except Sharia. Its a great justice system for all. It talks about being honest, it talks about distribution of wealth, establishes rules for human and social engagement in more modern ways than humanity has yet known. But technically speaking, Sharia is not implemented anywhere in the world at the moment, even then you talk about nuking Muslims. Your problem is not Sharia again, is something else which I will help you reveal. But if you have some problem with Sharia, it must be something specific.
• Red Part, No we don't need to make something true here. You are more than happy to "dissect and destroy" its legitimacy. Go on and prove its foundation as wrong and its foundation is Quran. Please find a mistake, an unrealistic description or some basic contradiction in it and I will be happy to leave Islam and join you in nuking Muslims. I don't need to defend what is defended by God and I have chosen Islam after long consideration. I know you would run-away like people like you should but if you had stayed, who knows you had a chance.
• Purple Part, We don't have problems with Jews or Christians. Rather being a Muslim, you can marry with Jews and Christian girls if they were following their book rightfully. We haven't inherited any hatred for anybody through Islam. Our Prophet PBUH as he had signed agreements and peace treaties with Jews and Christians, but if anybody, regardless of what religion he follows, goes hostile, you have to treat hostile as hostile. Historically, Iran is the most anti-Israel state but it has Jew Parliamentarians. Arab world other than those who's land was grabbed by Israel have peaceful relationship with them. But if you conspire against my home, let you be my faith-fellow or blood relation, you will be treated as hostile.. no rocket science here.
• Green Part, I have no disagreements on that and thanks for repeating the message of Islam. According to FUNDAMENTAL teachings, if you kill a human (regardless what religion or nationality he/she had), you are subjected to capital punishment here in the world and hereafter. Even in wars you cannot kill somebody who is not hostile. Islam values humanity more than anything and human is the subject of Quran. Islam wants to create a society which is balanced, liberal, progressive and supportive to every human being.

Let me give you one little advice, you want to hate Islam.. go for it but hate it after knowing it. Rather take it as a challenge and try to "destroy" Islam bit by bit and let me help you in destroying it. Pick a topic, lets learn what book says, lets destroy those rules in the light of great human experiences and set entire Muslim population of the world free. Are you ready to invest some time and saving humanity from becoming Muslims?

Your post is way off tangent filled with straw-men (when did I talk about nuking Muslims?), and using the Islamophobia card ad nausea. My contention was not to be drawn in a debate about the intricacies of Islamic theology and Sharia, but to call you out on your natural way of thinking that you should trample on the rights of non-Muslims in Europe and Russia by implanting your cultural beliefs and systems in those countries? This is what you said:

Mashallah. Russia will also appear as a new Islamic State and in few decade Europe. Light is spreading even though media has done its most to defame Islam.

For those that believe that Islam will become dominant by imposing it on others, do you not see how violative and unsavoury it is for those people who do not share your faith? How would you like if non-Muslims paid some serious attention in eradicating Muslims and forcing them to live under laws and systems they did not believe in? Pretty wretched I would say.

As for your challenge, it seems pretty shaky. My initial assessment on your stand of sharia being equal and just for all does not seems to be a challenge at all, heavily relying on the no true scotsman fallacy, which can easily be countered by numerous real live examples, so I won't bother in taking that challenge. But you make some other points about the nature of morality and the peculiarities of conversion that I will address.

All (non-blind) morality is based on an awareness of the needs of others and how our actions will effect them. You mention stabbing, stealing and incest. These acts are not consensual and bring harm to another person, and hence they are immoral acts as they fail to give consideration of the others need and cause harm to them.
You see, if you rationally think about morality you can be pretty clear about what is right and wrong and make a convincing argument. I do not merely say something is wrong, because it was written in a book.
On one hand, we have the words in a book, written by men that you assume/believe exactly interpreted the will of God and accept those words, because you are simply told to do so. On the other hand, we have over a millennium of further human thought, development and experience that has led to new conclusions and new concepts of morality that are far more nuanced, advanced and comprehensive than that contained in Islamic texts, that can be thought through and applied without the reliance of any other source of validity. A conception of morals, like mathematics, with internal consistency and an ability to be applied perfectly in any real world situations.

As for your assumptions about my state of mind regarding Islamic conversions... I am an atheist adhering to secularism, which is not based on self-interest or individual interest. It is based on the community and the world at large. Which is why secularism tops any religion any day of the week. It looks beyond itself. Secularism does not care if you believe or what you believe, it does not care which god you do or do not worship.