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4 Pantsir S-1s VS 1 UAV

If u make claim u must prove it.


Thats lie.



U claimed only one missile fired and there is zero evidence that Syrian SAMs scatered all around. They fired like crazy that missiles landed in several neighboring countries + Syria itself. So u lied twice.


U claimed only one radar was destroyed. I proved hat its lie. As for launchers - they were empty after they fired at Israeli F-16 so attacking empty launches does not make any sense.


Thats fact. In 8 years Syrian air defence with most modern Russian SAMs could kill only 15 Russian officers. Thats very embarrassing for u.
More delusion repeatings, mantras, excuses, demands to prove something while not providing any proofs for own lying and exposed claims and most important another attempt to divert attention.

Not going to work.

The main topic of discussion:

Miserably failed attempt by Israel to suppress archaic 1960s era S-200 and loss of F-16, showing the backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
 
More delusion repeatings, mantras, excuses, demands to prove something while not providing any proofs for own lying claims and most important another attempt to divert attention.

Not going to work.

The main topic of discussion:

Miserably failed attempt by Israel to suppress archaic 1960s era S-200 and loss of F-16, showing the backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
U lied on multiple occasions.

Here the facts:

* There is ZERO evidence that Pantsir ever managed to shot down something.
* In 8 years of Israeli strikes Syrian AD equipped with newest Russian systems managed to kill only 15 Russian officers.
 
U lied on multiple occasions.

Here the facts:

* There is ZERO evidence that Pantsir ever managed to shot down something.
* In 8 years of Israeli strikes Syrian AD equipped with newest Russian systems managed to kill only 15 Russian officers.

Plenty of evidence and zero evidence that it didnt shoot down anything.
It doesnt matter how many it killed in incident, what matters is that archaic S-200 shot down Israeli F-16 showing backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
 
Plenty of evidence and zero evidence that it didnt shoot down anything.
It doesnt matter how many it killed in incident, what matters is that archaic S-200 shot down Israeli F-16 showing backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
Instead whining like a girl and using bold fonts like a kid show ur evidences. So far u only showed that u are a liar.

Fact: in 8 years Syrian air defenses with newest Russian SAMs could kill only Russians themselves.
 
Instead whining like a girl and using bold fonts like a kid show ur evidences. So far u only showed that u are a liar.

Fact: in 8 years Syrian air defenses with newest Russian SAMs could kill only Russians themselves.
Tons of pics and videos of shot down Israeli bombs and missiles in internet. Go search them.
No one denying the fact that S-200 killed Russians, stop repeating that mantra, troll.
The important thing is that archaic S-200 shot down Israeli F-16 showing backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
 
Tons of pics and videos of shot down Israeli bombs and missiles in internet. Go search them.
No one denying the fact that S-200 killed Russians, stop repeating that mantra, troll.
The important thing is that archaic S-200 shot down Israeli F-16 showing backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
Instead whining like a girl and using bold fonts like a kid show ur evidences. So far u only showed that u are a liar.

Fact: in 8 years Syrian air defenses with newest Russian SAMs could kill only Russians themselves.
 
Instead whining like a girl and using bold fonts like a kid show ur evidences. So far u only showed that u are a liar.

Fact: in 8 years Syrian air defenses with newest Russian SAMs could kill only Russians themselves.

You can start with Russian MOD briefing showing intercepted missiles by Pantsirs, lying troll.
Fact: archaic S-200 shot down Israeli F-16 showing backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
 
You can start with Russian MOD briefing showing intercepted missiles by Pantsirs, lying troll.
No they did not show any intercepted missiles. They are liars like u.

Fact: archaic S-200 shot down Israeli F-16 showing backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
Facts:

* Israel successful carried some 200 attacks against targets protected by most modern Russian SAMs.
* Israel destroyed several most modern Russian SAMs.
* In 8 years Syrian air defence with most modern Russian SAMs managed to kill just Russian officers.
 
Tons of pics and videos of shot down Israeli bombs and missiles in internet. Go search them.
There is no proof of Russian defensive systems intercepting any type of missile over Syria at any point in time. These boasts are only in Russian press briefings to fool the gullible. Russians want to sell their arms and they are known to lie and exaggerate about their products.

US officials have said Russia jammed and disabled US aircraft so stick those claims of "Russian propaganda". You can't have a normal conversation without looking ignorant and sounding like a US propaganda machine/parrot. As that SU-57 argument, where was your rebuttal? You were arguing that large gaps and discontinuities somehow made F-22 nozzles more "stealthy" your argument defied all known laws of physics.

http://amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/the...e-jamming-ac-130-gunships-in-syria?source=dam
Thanks for providing 'something'.

Nevertheless, did those jamming efforts achieve anything? Did the AC-130 gunships crashed somewhere or stopped working? Seriously now? Sorry to burst your bubble but American hardware have proved its resilience in the face of Russian EW in Syria to large extent. Russians managed to interrupt operations of some small American drones at best - nothing significant.

I have pointed out to you before that Russian EW was effective in Ukraine because Ukranian hardware is based on Russian designs to large extent but Russian EW utterly failed to disrupt American operations in Syria. Yet you continue to ignore the bigger picture in this regard because you are in fact a Russian machine/parrot; I am neutral observer in these matters.

As for the debate about Su-57; my point of contention is that Su-57 is not VLO on the level of F-22 from any angle, and I have offered sufficient explanation in this regard. You continue to misconstrue my assertions because you are too arrogant to admit that you can be wrong about anything.

I do not speak against Russians on purpose; I just try to put things straight per my knowledge. You take offense with my assertions because I do not buy your fairy-tales easily.

As for Russian systems ask Pakistanis how shitty they are.
No need! Pakistani are not impressed on average. We will pick American, German and Japanese hardware over Russian any day but our acquisition options are limited due to our 'geopolitical dimensions' in current times.

I have nothing against Russian products in person but truth will be painful for you to stomach. No hard feelings.
 
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No they did not show any intercepted missiles. They are liars like u.


Facts:

* Israel successful carried some 200 attacks against targets protected by most modern Russian SAMs.
* Israel destroyed several most modern Russian SAMs.
* In 8 years Syrian air defence with most modern Russian SAMs managed to kill just Russian officers.

Of course they showed.

Facts:

Archaic S-200 shot down Israeli F-16 showing backwardness of Israeli technology and breaking apart decades long Israeli propaganda and myths of "technological superiority".
Israel failed miserably to suppress S-200 or even destroy any single S-200 launcher after the humiliation of losing F-16.
After 8 years of strikes Israel managed to destroy only 2 out of ammo 20 years old Pantsirs.
 
Thanks for providing 'something'.

Nevertheless, did those jamming efforts achieve anything? Did the AC-130 gunships crashed somewhere or stopped working? Seriously now? Sorry to burst your bubble but American hardware have proved its resilience in the face of Russian EW in Syria to large extent. Russians managed to interrupt operations of some small American drones at best - nothing significant.




Nothing needed to crash in order to achieve anything. The US did not say specifically what was disabled or for how long. Your assertion is based on bias speculation. The fact is US officials admitted that Russia jammed/disabled US aircraft, you somehow spin it now and say it's resilient. The US is the one complaining about Russia disruption their operations, you however, spung it as Russian propaganda when Russia stayed quiet.





I have pointed out to you before that Russian EW was effective in Ukraine because Ukranian hardware is based on Russian designs to large extent but Russian EW utterly failed to disrupt American operations in Syria. Yet you continue to ignore the bigger picture in this regard because you are in fact a Russian machine/parrot; I am neutral observer in these matters.



You arnt neutral. You are literally marking up claims. You don't know to what axtent Russia has gone to disrupt US operations and you don't know what they disrupted.




As for the debate about Su-57; my point of contention is that Su-57 is not VLO on the level of F-22 from any angle, and I have offered sufficient explanation in this regard. You continue to misconstrue my assertions because you are too arrogant to admit that you can be wrong about anything.


Your assertions were noted and deemed copy and paste propaganda. You made assertions that the F-22 nozzles were somehow more stealthy then when I pointed close ups of large gaps, bolts, and protrudions you doubled down, started denying without evidence and started desperately copying and pasting unrelated articles how the F-22 is so great and how the nozzles were better despite having horrible tolerances and 90 degree corners which is the biggest no no of 'stealt'.

When I posted SU-35 imagery of F-22 heat signature you just about had a mental breakdown.




I do not speak against Russians on purpose; I just try to put things straight per my knowledge. You take offense with my assertions because I do not buy your fairy-tales easily.



It's the other way around, you sell fairytales.





No need! Pakistani are not impressed on average. We will pick American, German and Japanese hardware over Russian any day but our acquisition options are limited due to our 'geopolitical dimensions' in current times.

I have nothing against Russian products in person but truth will be painful for you to stomach. No hard feelings.




Right, Pakistan is not impressed but buys Russian weapons when many good options are available. For instance, the Mi-17 has a world class reputation, even NATO, including Canada and the US use the helicopters in Afghanistan. Germans and Japanese offer very little in terms of weapons and German systems are overrated, leopards turned out to be duds In Syria when they were taunted to have world class protection. All I seen was 'cook offs' similar to old Soviet tanks.

And I have used German weapons and have owned German vehicles, I was not impressed, needless over complicated and unreliable. In many instances I was baffled at how moronic German ingineeing was. But that is here nor there.
 
Nothing needed to crash in order to achieve anything. The US did not say specifically what was disabled or for how long. Your assertion is based on bias speculation. The fact is US officials admitted that Russia jammed/disabled US aircraft, you somehow spin it now and say it's resilient. The US is the one complaining about Russia disruption their operations, you however, spung it as Russian propaganda when Russia stayed quiet.
Useless rants and excuses. Americans complain about Russian military operations on a daily basis - what is new?

Russian EW capabilities utterly failed to hamper American military operations in Syria in significant ways, and this is apparent from the fact that NATO-SDF bloc succeeded in defeating ISIS in the region. Secondly, whenever US forces decided to strike at Syrian regime, Russian EW capabilities utterly failed to disrupt these military operations. For instance, explain to me what the mighty Russian EW capabilities achieved in the following fight?

LINK: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/...ican-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

- Nothing.

"In many ways I think what Russia is doing is just basically crying out at the night to try and be heard by someone, but I really don’t think anyone is listening because their capabilities are vastly inferior to the West on most occasions." - Brandon Valeriano

&

"U.S. military maintains sufficient countermeasures and protections to ensure the safety of our manned and unmanned aircraft, our forces and the missions they support." - Eric Pahon

However:

"For operational security reasons, we don’t discuss E.W., to include our detection or protection from these kinds of operations." - Adrian Rankine-Galloway

Some news for you:

[1] https://i-hls.com/archives/84029

[2] http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...getting-new-sensors-and-anti-gps-jamming-gear

NOTE:-

"But while Russia’s GPS jamming and spoofing in Syria is definitely a cause for concern, especially given the steadily worsening ties between the Kremlin and the U.S. government, the full extent of Russian capabilities in this regard in the country and whether there has been any actual shift in policy remain unclear. The sources told NBC News that larger unmanned aircraft, such as MQ-9 Reapers and MQ-1 Predators, remained unaffected, which might be an indication that the electronic warfare attacks had been relatively localized and not complex enough to jam those drones' microwave satellite communications data links.

This would make sense given the increasingly close proximity of American and Russian-backed forces in Syria. U.S. forces throughout the country have been taking up more robust postures with added defenses in recent months in response to threats from various groups."


Therefore, General Raymond Thomas is BLUFFING for 'public consumption' - his statement about Russian EW capabilities being able to disable AC-130 gunships over Syria was in a SYMPOSIUM. Self-explanatory.

Sensational reports of Russian military prowess are necessary to convince American public to continue to fund American military-oriented projects for indefinite period; FEAR being the driving force in this matter. Conversely, Russian propaganda machine is very capable in itself, and have done a splendid job in undermining Western narrative in contested spaces.

"The truth is, as we at The War Zone have been noting for months, that there is something of a low-level fight between Russia and the United States in Syria already, as well as elsewhere in the world. It’s a hybrid conflict that involves the heavy use of proxy forces and information warfare to create conflicting narratives about what’s actually happening on the ground." - Joseph Trevithick

Excellent read: https://thedefensepost.com/2018/02/28/opinion-russia-us-less-than-war/

The bottom line is that modern warfare techniques are not limited to kinetics, but encompass "narrative-building."

You arnt neutral. You are literally marking up claims. You don't know to what axtent Russia has gone to disrupt US operations and you don't know what they disrupted.
See above. I simply do not buy your fairy tales.

Your assertions were noted and deemed copy and paste propaganda. You made assertions that the F-22 nozzles were somehow more stealthy then when I pointed close ups of large gaps, bolts, and protrudions you doubled down, started denying without evidence and started desperately copying and pasting unrelated articles how the F-22 is so great and how the nozzles were better despite having horrible tolerances and 90 degree corners which is the biggest no no of 'stealt'.

When I posted SU-35 imagery of F-22 heat signature you just about had a mental breakdown.
Your counterarguments are PERCEPTIVE NONSENSE and I am not interested in entertaining them.

[1]
[2]
[3]
NOTE:-

"Worthwhile to mention here that Su-57 has frontal RCS of 1sqm and rear RCS of 5sqm which falls under the category of fourth gen fighter jet. This is why Russian mounted a low-cost radar at the tail end of the aircraft is to detect whether the aircraft is being pursued by another aircraft because Su-57 cannot hide its signature from the rear end."

SHAME.

If you have concrete figures of RCS of both F-22A and Su-57 from their rear, kindly share. Otherwise, STFU.

It's the other way around, you sell fairytales.
This apply to you.

Right, Pakistan is not impressed but buys Russian weapons when many good options are available. For instance, the Mi-17 has a world class reputation, even NATO, including Canada and the US use the helicopters in Afghanistan. Germans and Japanese offer very little in terms of weapons and German systems are overrated, leopards turned out to be duds In Syria when they were taunted to have world class protection. All I seen was 'cook offs' similar to old Soviet tanks.
Pakistan does not have sufficient funds and geopolitical clout to buy whatever it want to in relation to procurement of arms. Please do not try to lecture me about the procurement realities of Pakistani armed forces because I know better than you.

Russian hardware is popular due to being easier to maintain in comparison to alternatives at times. American hardware can be very complex (superior design and capabilities) but also difficult to maintain accordingly. There are trade-offs to consider. Cost is very important aspect to consider as well.

Russian hardware is normally GOOD, but it doesn't have to be the best in the world to attract customers. Competitive price - performance - maintenance ratio is important.

And I have used German weapons and have owned German vehicles, I was not impressed, needless over complicated and unreliable. In many instances I was baffled at how moronic German ingineeing was. But that is here nor there.
Kindly tell me which Russian automaker produce cars which are better than the offerings of German Audi in Pakistan.
 
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Kindly tell me which Russian automaker produce cars which are better than the offerings of German Audi in Pakistan.

Kamaz. AvtoVAZ. Actually, Kamaz is partly owned by Daimler, AvtoVAZ is owned by Renault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamaz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AvtoVAZ


No evidence.

I have pointed out to you before that Russian EW was effective in Ukraine because Ukranian hardware is based on Russian designs to large extent but Russian EW utterly failed to disrupt American operations in Syria.

Russia never fought America in Syria.
 

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