A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[LogiCal]

The Indus, much more than the Ganges, has always had an organic relationship with the Arab, Persian, and Turkic worlds......

If IVC had relations with the Persians and the Arabs then they wouldn't have attacked IVC....and the IVC people would have known how to defend themselves....

IVC was totally a self-centered civilization.....with complete disregard of the outside world....which explains why they did not build any defense mechanism....

 

[rockstarIN]

Another Indian who have no sense what he is talking about. Were Pakistani peoples (living in present day Pakistan) existed in area/land now called Pakistan before coming of islam i.e before 7th century ?

Secondly who told you peoples of IVS were idol worshipper ? How saying that Pakistan is descendant of IVS is against their religious belief or identity ? Thirdly we call it pre-Islamic heritage of pakistan

Objects found tend to indicate some form of religious beliefs. There has been evidence that the people of the Indus Valley Civilization believed in some form of animal and nature worship. The figures of deities on the seals indicates that they worshipped gods and goddesses in the human form. No major sculpture survives but for a bust thought to be of a major priest and the stunning bronze dancing girl. The Divine Mother appears to have been an important goddess, due to the countless terra-cotta statues of her that were found. It follows a school of thought that would become prevalent later as well, of the female energy being regarded as the source of all creation. What is most interesting is the existence of a male god which has been identified as a proto-type of an important God of the religion of Hinduism, lord Shiv

 

[r3alist]

The more one reads this history, the more it becomes apparent that the Indian subcontinent has two principal geographical regions: the Indus Valley with its tributaries, and the Ganges Valley with its tributaries. Pakistani scholar Aitzaz Ahsan identifies the actual geographical fissure within the subcontinent as the "Gurdaspur-Kathiawar salient," a line running from eastern Punjab southwest to the Arabian Sea in Gujarat. This is the watershed, and it matches up almost perfectly with the Pakistan-India border.

http:// What's Wrong with Pakistan? | Opinion Maker

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

lol @ assumptions.. All we found were some symbols and indian Hindus historians connected it with Hinduism. We dont have any evidence about their belief systems but IVS is as irrelevant to Hinduism as it is to Islam or any other religion

 

[LogiCal]

I think you did not read it properly. IVS has no connection with Hinduism or Hindu culture. We dont have any record or information about their religion( if they had any) or language. IVS was pre-vedic. So it's not so simple to say there was no Pakistan. There was no India either. There wasn't even a trace of any of the known Indian writings or cultural elements in IVS so i don't know why you assume that India have more rights to claim the ownership of IVS?

So tell me, what religion the IVC people followed??

We do have record that they were Idol/Nature Worshipers....which corroborates with the ancient scriptures of the Vedic Religion...and this religion was followed throughout the Indian subcontinent before the Islamic invasion....

The Persians first termed the followers of these religions as HINDUS(named after the river Indu)......therefore we can understand that a SEPARATE religion thrived throughout the Indian subcontinent before the advent of ISLAM through the Persians...

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

This thread has really deviated from the topics it was meant to discuss. The original article does focus on the IVC, but Pakistan's heritage consists of a lot more than the IVC. Note that whether or not our ancestors worshiped idols is irrelevant, they were still our ancestors, & the glory of their accomplishments belong to us alone or anyone else that descends from them. The point of this thread is to promote nationalism in Pakistan by recognizing our ethnic & racial roots & accommodating religious nationalism in to our society as well. This way we will manage to build a unique identity around ourselves & Pakistanis can once again focus on none other than their own nation.

 

[LogiCal]

lol @ assumptions.. All we found were some symbols and indian Hindus historians connected it with Hinduism. We dont have any evidence about their belief systems but IVS is as irrelevant to Hinduism as it is to Islam or any other religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization


Lord Shiva is a HINDU GOD........I guess.....

 

[LogiCal]

This thread has really deviated from the topics it was meant to discuss. The original article does focus on the IVC, but Pakistan's heritage consists of a lot more than the IVC. Note that whether or not our ancestors worshiped idols is irrelevant, they were still our ancestors, & the glory of their accomplishments belong to us alone or anyone else that descends from them. The point of this thread is to promote nationalism in Pakistan by recognizing our ethnic & racial roots & accommodating religious nationalism in to our society as well. This way we will manage to build a unique identity around ourselves & Pakistanis can once again focus on none other than their own nation.

We can understand your problem....in order to make your nation stronger, Nationalism has to be promoted....
You can promote your Nationalism only ONE way....either through your Heritage OR through your Religion....
You cannot use both as they clash each other...

 

[pak-marine]

Embracing our Indus past will enable us to reject Arab cultural imperialism in the name of religion, and will help us discard the Two-Nation Theory. We will be focused not on fighting wars with India, but in making the greatest cities in the world. Cities like those of the past, which valued trade and commerce and became the hub of Indo-Persian-Chinese commerce. Let our market places be flooded by people from all over the world and be a blend of cultures. We will be a country that celebrates diversity; ethnic diversity of the many languages and cultures around the ecosystem of the great river, and religious diversity, for it will be a country for (all types of) Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs who can respect this ecosystem. It will be a country that empowers its minorities. And once religion is prevented from being abused we can truly reconcile it with modernity and our legacy of British constitutionalism.
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...-indus-valley-civilization.html#ixzz1zMt8Mc3W

Its my dream of Pakistan .. if we will achieve this may be our next generation might see peace and prosperity

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

We can understand your problem....in order to make your nation stronger, Nationalism has to be promoted....
You can promote your Nationalism only ONE way....either through your Heritage OR through your Religion....
You cannot use both as they clash each other...

Why can't we have a combination of both? For example, many of us descend from Vedic Indo-Aryans, so we can be proud of our heritage while retaining Islam. We are still their descendants, but we just don't follow their religion. We don't even speak their language Sanskrit, but that does not mean that we have no claim to them.

 

[LogiCal]

Why can't we have a combination of both? For example, many of us descend from Vedic Indo-Aryans, so we can be proud of our heritage while retaining Islam. We are still their descendants, but we just don't follow their religion. We don't even speak their language Sanskrit, but that does not mean that we have no claim to them.

Yes you have every right to claim your heritage.....but the obstacle is your Religion.....not us....

You accept that your forefathers were not Muslims, their language was different.....but your Religion claims that Islam is the only true religion....all others are 'KAFIRS'....which makes your forefather 'KAFIRS'....

Now, in order to promote Nationalism through your Heritage.....you need to respect your Heritage, you need to appreciate their way of living and thinking....but if you regard them as 'KAFIRS' how would you respect them.....

Thus, hating your forefathers and claiming their ancestry and achievements at the same time is highly hypocritical....

This inherent clash between Islam and other Religions is the main obstacle......if you can get over it....the problem will be solved.......

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Yes you have every right to claim your heritage.....but the obstacle is your Religion.....not us....

You accept that your forefathers were not Muslims, their language was different.....but your Religion claims that Islam is the only true religion....all others are 'KAFIRS'....which makes your forefather 'KAFIRS'....

Now, in order to promote Nationalism through your Heritage.....you need to respect your Heritage, you need to appreciate their way of living and thinking....but if you regard them as 'KAFIRS' how would you respect them.....

Thus, hating your forefathers and claiming their ancestry and achievements at the same time is highly hypocritical....

This inherent clash between Islam and other Religions is the main obstacle......if you can get over it....the problem will be solved.......

All Muslims at some point in time had forefathers that were "kafirs". We don't hate our forefathers, we just don't think that their religion was correct. If a Christian has a son that converts to Islam that does not mean that his son hates him. The Christian's son simply disagrees with his religion & will still claim his father's accomplishments as his own.

 

[SamantK]

I think you did not read it properly. IVS has no connection with Hinduism or Hindu culture. We dont have any record or information about their religion( if they had any) or language. IVS was pre-vedic. So it's not so simple to say there was no Pakistan. There was no India either. There wasn't even a trace of any of the known Indian writings or cultural elements in IVS so i don't know why you assume that India have more rights to claim the ownership of IVS?

please read swastika symbol seals found and shiv ling found and I was not talking about religion. What I said is that their culture related more to Indian religions rather than yours ... I hope you don't go into hyperbole now with religion

 

[indian_jigar]

All Muslims at some point in time had forefathers that were "kafirs". We don't hate our forefathers, we just don't think that their religion was correct. If a Christian has a son that converts to Islam that does not mean that his son hates him. The Christian's son simply disagrees with his religion & will still claim his father's accomplishments as his own.

Well then stop claiming the IVC if you dont think they were following the right religion or whatever.

No matter how much you say, your civilization is the polar opposite of Sanskrit and Idol Worshipping which were the cornerstones of the great Indian civilization called Indus Valley Civilization.

 

[INDIC]

yea sure i know i will not get into prison if i slaughter cow in India

Whatever floats your boat. But we Indians don't have confusion to reject a part of our history because of certain religion.