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Among the Non-Believers

Hobo1

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The lives of Sikhs and Christians in Pakistan

The Sikhs in Kurram were distinct from the Pashtuns around them, but co-existence was a way of life. Amir’s family had moved to Hangu (a region carved out of Kurram Agency closer to Punjab but still in FATA) in the past and then to Peshawar about ten years ago. Today, Peshawar is out of bounds for them, he says. It is not as if there are no Sikhs there anymore, it is just that most departed once the Taliban tightened its grip, some sooner than others. Those who stayed on have had to pay a heavy price—kidnappings, extortion and even killings.

Amir says he ran a store of daily household items in Doaba village, but had to leave with his family after the “Taliban’s grip tightened”. He uses this phrase again, jerking both hands together to suggest suffocation
This Amir Guy is Sikh, wonder why non muslim in Pakistan have only muslim sounding names.

“The Taliban had started asking non-Muslims for jaziya (tax). It was first Rs 3,000 for a shop, which we would pay, but their demands increased,” Hukam Singh says. The options that the Taliban offered the area’s Sikhs were grim—conversion to Islam or paying large sums of money collectively as a group. As more and more Sikhs left, it was impossible for the few who remained to fulfil the demands.

Mahinder Pal Singh, a first year pre-medical student of Lahore’s Government College. He has got this far because he opted out of the local Urdu medium school and joined the English-medium Al Muarif Higher Secondary School. He secured admission through a 5 per cent quota in colleges for minorities. He has been provided free accommodation by the Gurdwara; it has over 30 rooms for Sikh students who need a place to stay in Lahore to pursue higher education. Only three are occupied. He has barely begun talking about the difficulties of his friends in seeking admission under the quota when the man in white appears. “It is Allah’s grace that Sikhs and Hindus are treated so well in Pakistan,” says Mahinder Pal suddenly, alerting me to the intruder’s presence.


Before setting out for Lahore in late October, I had contacted a minority rights lawyer there to help me meet Sikhs and Christians in the city. There had already been a flurry of reports on Hindus crossing over to India from Pakistan with valid visas but refusing to go back, and I wanted the stories of non-Hindu Pakistani minorities.

The lawyer put me in touch with an activist who has worked with Christians. She has come over to my hotel in Gulberg, a leafy locality of Lahore, to meet the other visiting journalists, but is reluctant to let me meet Christians in her office. She promises to arrange visits to some Christian homes instead.The promised meeting never happens.

“I just want to know how they live in Pakistan,” I tell her. “The way Muslims live in India,” she says, advising caution.
Yes ,whenever a pakistani or foreigner comes to India and pays a vist to Indian muslim then we surely ensure that there is RAW agent present around them so that he dare not bad mouth India. I would suggest the Lady to pay a vist to India and see for herself . IM don't go around with Hindu sounding names.

I meet Sham Masih. He has been around all along. Only, the other housekeeping boys, his colleagues, do not know that Sham is Christian. “I never let anyone feel I am not Muslim.
Sham says he mingles with people of his community on Sundays, but his friends are mostly Muslims, “by Allah’s grace”, he repeats. He faces trouble for not being Muslim, he says, only when he is found out. “Then they say I should convert, they don’t want to break bread with a non-Muslim. But I usually never let anyone know I am not Muslim,” he says and leaves.


The brief meeting has left me and my roommate Rahul Puri silent. The door is still open. Sham has returned. He asks if I can spare him a few cigarettes. I offer him an open packet. He takes four sticks and says, “Allah hafiz” with a big smile as he shuts the door behind him.

The situation of Non muslims in Pakistan is perilous that he if such stories came out in open in open it would be awfully damaging for Pak reputation. Thats why Pakistan authorites don't let Indian journalist openly go around and interact with minorities in Pakistan.
Its time India gave asylum to non Muslims of Pakistan.
Hope the commie A Roy and that Bingo sagarika ghose from CNN IBM reading this.
 
Pakistan is fundamentally incapable of treating people of other religions as equals. They donot value diversity.

As a nation, Pakistani's have been brought up on lies and hate - against India/Hindus/Jews/US,etc

When the minorities run out of Pakistan, they will turn the guns on themselves - sects within Islam.
 
Pakistan is fundamentally incapable of treating people of other religions as equals. They donot value diversity.

As a nation, Pakistani's have been brought up on lies and hate - against India/Hindus/Jews/US,etc

When the minorities run out of Pakistan, they will turn the guns on themselves - sects within Islam.

Same is happening in Bangladesh also. How do you explain that ?

As far pakistan is concerned ,it just following what it has learned from their Arab Ummah brothers. Kids in arab school are taught to look down upon non muslims. Pakistani just copied from here.
Indian media probably fearing communal strife doesn't print such stories.
 
Same is happening in Bangladesh also. How do you explain that ?

As far pakistan is concerned ,it just following what it has learned from their Arab Ummah brothers. Kids in arab school are taught to look down upon non muslims. Pakistani just copied from here.
Indian media probably fearing communal strife doesn't print such stories.

Bangladesh and India are at same level of religious tolerance. Dont lie.
I have met some bangladeshi hindus, they are treated exactly like we treat Indian muslims, not more or less.
 
Same is happening in Bangladesh also. How do you explain that ?
Not even close. Bangladeshi's fundamentally value diversity. You will find a very small percentage of Bangladeshi's filled with hate and bigotry - the Jamaati's. And not just that, Bangladesh is now coming out of economic gloom and doom and as such, its population will get more and more moderate as the years go by. A fringe element will certainly get radicalized, but not anything half as close as in Pakistan. They dont have the same type of madrassa's funded from Arabia and whatnot.

You hear how the demand from some Jamaati quarters regarding Sharia in Bangladesh got shot down as soon as it started. They dont have the gun and heroin culture of Pakistan.

They are on the whole forward looking.

As far pakistan is concerned ,it just following what it has learned from their Arab Ummah brothers. Kids in arab school are taught to look down upon non muslims. Pakistani just copied from here.
Indian media probably fearing communal strife doesn't print such stories.
Cannot say on the Indian media, but yes, Pakistan is increasingly following the Arabicized versions of Islam - Wahhabi or Qutbi instead of their Sufi origins.

It also seems unlikely that this fall will be arrested.
As of today i think one of the Parliamentary Panels of Pakistan has asked for all anchors on Pakistani television to wear scarves!
 
Pakistan is fundamentally incapable of treating people of other religions as equals. They donot value diversity.

As a nation, Pakistani's have been brought up on lies and hate - against India/Hindus/Jews/US,etc

When the minorities run out of Pakistan, they will turn the guns on themselves - sects within Islam.

Same is happening in Bangladesh also. How do you explain that ?

As far pakistan is concerned ,it just following what it has learned from their Arab Ummah brothers. Kids in arab school are taught to look down upon non muslims. Pakistani just copied from here.
Indian media probably fearing communal strife doesn't print such stories.

LOOOL why you guy's are acting like saint, everybody know your reality, you are doing state lavel terrorisme, and look how are guy's are brainwashed in your childhood !!
PAKISTAN AND INDIA HINDU LADY ABUSING PAKISTAN AND MUSLIM,S.mp4 - YouTube
This is what happening with Muslims in India.mp4 - YouTube
 
I know many Muslims from India here in Saudi, and they tell me exactly how they are treated in India. Muslims, as a whole still see themselves as a different 'nation' from the Hindus. The areas are segeregated on the basis of Hindu/Muslim majority and both parties are apprehensive while treading in the other's territory. Muslims find it difficult to maintain their identity, and keep to themselves. The prejudice is not so blatant in the governemnt's policies but is easily observed in society and individuals. For instance, Indian Muslims do not eat meat from any international franchise such as KFC, Pizza Hut and so on becasue it's not Halal. One wonders why aren't the MNC's don't do anything about it knowing the population of Muslims in India. My Indian friends have various explainations for it.

Btw, I know 4 gentleman from Kerala, 2 from Hyderabad, 1 from Delhi, 1 from Bombay, 1 from Bihar and 3 from Bengal. Suffice to say, they all have the same issues and views on their life in India.
 
I know many Muslims from India here in Saudi, and they tell me exactly how they are treated in India. Muslims, as a whole still see themselves as a different 'nation' from the Hindus. The areas are segeregated on the basis of Hindu/Muslim majority and both parties are apprehensive while treading in the other's territory. Muslims find it difficult to maintain their identity, and keep to themselves. The prejudice is not so blatant in the governemnt's policies but is easily observed in society and individuals. For instance, Indian Muslims do not eat meat from any international franchise such as KFC, Pizza Hut and so on becasue it's not Halal. One wonders why aren't the MNC's don't do anything about it knowing the population of Muslims in India. My Indian friends have various explainations for it.

Btw, I know 4 gentleman from Kerala, 2 from Hyderabad, 1 from Delhi, 1 from Bombay, 1 from Bihar and 3 from Bengal. Suffice to say, they all have the same issues and views on their life in India.


Did you ask your friends why is that? what do they mean by finding it diffcult to maintain their identity? When they are free to practice their religion, when they can wear their own clothes reflecting their religious background, while they can practice their own set of civil laws. I am wondering what your friends are going to say - Are they pointing out not serving halal meats in MNC food franchises? ;)
 
Bangladesh and India are at same level of religious tolerance. Dont lie.
I have met some bangladeshi hindus, they are treated exactly like we treat Indian muslims, not more or less.

You must have met the BD hindus in UK who obviusly come from upper strata of BD society and so a bit immune from discrimation.
Major Hindu muslims riot occured in India a decade back in Gujart and it was started because muslim mob burned down a train.And for yr info 1\3 of dead in Gujart riots were hindus when the state was fully supporting the carnage.

And the real reason why last time Hindus were targetd in BD was that they very pro Hasina and these riots occured when Khaleda Zia came to power.
Hindus were targetd in BD many of their temples destroyed and their women raped at the time of babri masjid demoltion.
Hindus are murdered and raped for such frivilous reason in BD. And you still believe what you said.

Look at BD section of PDF it think it is an excellent mirror how BD muslims view India and Hindus.
Can a Hindu dare marry a muslim without converting to islam in BD.

Ever heard Hindus rioting in Bangladesh, the reason for this Hindu in BD unlike their muslim counterparts in India wouldn't even dare because they know repercussions would be so severe that they would be wiped out.

Media in BD and Pakistan is not that open and forth right like we in our media thats why we hardly get any news and opinon that would reflect the true nature of Hindu plight.


The government's lackadaisical response to the vicious targeting of Hindus only emboldened criminals in many areas. The situation came to such a pass that terrified Hindus, especially women, fled their villages. In one such incident, the entire population in Agoyljhara in southern Barisal fled to Gopalganj, the home district of Sheikh Hasina, for protection.
Other Minor Battles | Arshad Mahmud
 
I know many Muslims from India here in Saudi, and they tell me exactly how they are treated in India. Muslims, as a whole still see themselves as a different 'nation' from the Hindus. The areas are segeregated on the basis of Hindu/Muslim majority and both parties are apprehensive while treading in the other's territory. Muslims find it difficult to maintain their identity, and keep to themselves. The prejudice is not so blatant in the governemnt's policies but is easily observed in society and individuals. For instance, Indian Muslims do not eat meat from any international franchise such as KFC, Pizza Hut and so on becasue it's not Halal. One wonders why aren't the MNC's don't do anything about it knowing the population of Muslims in India. My Indian friends have various explainations for it.

Btw, I know 4 gentleman from Kerala, 2 from Hyderabad, 1 from Delhi, 1 from Bombay, 1 from Bihar and 3 from Bengal. Suffice to say, they all have the same issues and views on their life in India.

Now now, would I believe someone on internet or my real life muslim friends. The situation for them might not be that good in some places but overall they enjoy equal freedom and rights as anyone else. It is not the nations fault if people don't take the opportunities provided by the state.

And, btw where did you heard that KFC and others don't offer halal meat? Last i saw a board in a McD and KFC reading halal meat available and that beef and pork isn't served, though Pizzaro and Dominos do serve pork.
 
I know many Muslims from India here in Saudi, and they tell me exactly how they are treated in India. Muslims, as a whole still see themselves as a different 'nation' from the Hindus. The areas are segeregated on the basis of Hindu/Muslim majority and both parties are apprehensive while treading in the other's territory. Muslims find it difficult to maintain their identity, and keep to themselves. The prejudice is not so blatant in the governemnt's policies but is easily observed in society and individuals. For instance, Indian Muslims do not eat meat from any international franchise such as KFC, Pizza Hut and so on becasue it's not Halal. One wonders why aren't the MNC's don't do anything about it knowing the population of Muslims in India. My Indian friends have various explainations for it.

Btw, I know 4 gentleman from Kerala, 2 from Hyderabad, 1 from Delhi, 1 from Bombay, 1 from Bihar and 3 from Bengal. Suffice to say, they all have the same issues and views on their life in India.

You are totally wrong most of meat one gets in India is Halal. Only once i have come across a Zataka meat shop.
KFC in India serves Halal meat. I know this because a muslim co worker who does n't eat out because of fear of non halal meat eats regularly at KFC.
Most of butchers in India specially in North India are muslim so no question of serving non halal meat.
 
Now now, would I believe someone on internet or my real life muslim friends. The situation for them might not be that good in some places but overall they enjoy equal freedom and rights as anyone else. It is not the nations fault if people don't take the opportunities provided by the state.

And, btw where did you heard that KFC and others don't offer halal meat? Last i saw a board in a McD and KFC reading halal meat available and that beef and pork isn't served, though Pizzaro and Dominos do serve pork.

So similarly we,re gonna trust our non Muslim friends rather than some random Indian author. For all I know this entire article could be imaginary
 
So similarly we,re gonna trust our non Muslim friends rather than some random Indian author. For all I know this entire article could be imaginary

I am not disputing that. The article can be imaginary and so can be these talks of "my indian muslim friends"
 
I know many Muslims from India here in Saudi, and they tell me exactly how they are treated in India. Muslims, as a whole still see themselves as a different 'nation' from the Hindus. The areas are segeregated on the basis of Hindu/Muslim majority and both parties are apprehensive while treading in the other's territory. Muslims find it difficult to maintain their identity, and keep to themselves. The prejudice is not so blatant in the governemnt's policies but is easily observed in society and individuals. For instance, Indian Muslims do not eat meat from any international franchise such as KFC, Pizza Hut and so on becasue it's not Halal. One wonders why aren't the MNC's don't do anything about it knowing the population of Muslims in India. My Indian friends have various explainations for it.

Btw, I know 4 gentleman from Kerala, 2 from Hyderabad, 1 from Delhi, 1 from Bombay, 1 from Bihar and 3 from Bengal. Suffice to say, they all have the same issues and views on their life in India.

I thought most Indian muslims try to show they are better off in India than actually they are. Good that your friends confided to you.
Any other pakistani who has similar or opposite story to tell?
 
Did you ask your friends why is that? what do they mean by finding it diffcult to maintain their identity? When they are free to practice their religion, when they can wear their own clothes reflecting their religious background, while they can practice their own set of civil laws. I am wondering what your friends are going to say - Are they pointing out not serving halal meats in MNC food franchises? ;)



Indian Muslims pose as Hindus to get jobs

She ducks into a toilet stall on the platform and remerges a few moments later, transformed in a sari with vermillion powder on her forehead, and red and white conch bangles on her wrists - the symbols of a traditional, married Hindu woman.

Ms Begum is one of a number of India's 150 million Muslims who adopt Hindu identities to avoid discrimination in the workplace.

"For the the whole day I shall maintain this Hindu appearance. My name is Laxmi, you know it's also the name of the Hindu goddess," she says.

"Before leaving home I took off my armband on which 'Allah' is embossed and put on whatever a Hindu woman usually wears. I live in a Muslim village. Villagers will feel bad to see me with the symbols of a Hindu woman."

Ms Begum says she tried unsuccessfully to find a job for many years before deciding to hide her Muslim identity. Posing as a Hindu woman, she got her current job as an ayah (nursemaid) in a private hospital.

"Recently my hospital asked me to look for some girls to work there, but they asked me not to bring any Muslim candidate for the interview. If by chance they get to know that I am Muslim, I am sure I will be fired."

Secret recruitment policies
Muslims who adopt fake Hindu identities mostly work in menial jobs in sectors where identity documents are not usually sought.

Barin Ghosh managed a domestic help and ayah supply agency in Kolkata until recently and says many recruitment agencies help Muslims find jobs by introducing them as Hindu.

"Almost 95 percent of the clients in my agency were Hindu and while seeking domestic helps, as much as 80 per centof the Hindu clients informed us that they would not employ any Muslims," Mr Ghosh says.

"Muslims being poorer, more than half of the jobseekers coming to our agency were from this minority community. Sometimes we introduced Muslim jobseekers as Hindus to our Hindu clients and they got the jobs. I am sure many placement agencies on mutual interest maintain such secret policies to help Muslims get jobs."

Anti-Muslim bias
Muslims make up 13 percent of India's population and are the country's largest minority.

However, community leaders have long alleged that an anti-Muslim bias exists in different levels of society.

In 2005, the government appointed the Sachar Commission to investigate suggestions that Muslims were disadvantaged in social, economic and educational terms.

It concluded that the socioeconomic condition of most Muslims was worse than that of the dalits, or 'untouchables', the lowest of the Hindu castes.

Ayesha Pervez, a minority rights activist, says widespread workplace discrimination means Muslims are unable to upgrade their standard of living.

"It's not just in the unorganised sector where Muslim jobseekers face the hurdle of discrimination. Even in the government sector anti-Muslim discriminatory processes are thriving," she says.

"In West Bengal where Muslims constitute 27 percent of the population, their representation in government jobs is as low as four percent. Muslim participation is also extremely low in the private sector."

Muslims as untouchables
According to Prasenjit Biswas, a professor of philosophy at the North Eastern Hill University in Meghalaya, many Hindus count Muslims as untouchables.

He says that is at the root of the anti-Muslim discrimination in India.

"The anti-Muslim bias arises out of caste Hindu mindset of untouchability that considers Muslims as lesser than even the untouchables," he says.

"The specific reason in eastern India is the deep-seated fear that the proximity of Muslims in the interior household will not only pollute the household but would bring in bad omen."

Prof Biswas says although discriminating against Muslims is illegal, it is almost impossible for those affected to provide proof.

"So, they are forced to bear with this repressive system- in many cases by disguising themselves as Hindus, in attempt to seek work and live as equals in the society."

Housing apartheid flourishes in Delhi
 

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