China's anti-ship missile not a threat: Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma

[Lankan Ranger]

China's anti-ship missile not a threat: Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma

Dismissing China's anti-ship missile programme as a threat to Indian warships, Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma today said it would be a difficult task to even spot the vessels in the vast expanse of high seas.

"Targeting ships at high seas is not an easy task or as simple as land warfare," Admiral Verma told reporters here on the sidelines of a seminar on aircraft carriers organised by the National Maritime Foundation here.

"There are hundreds and thousands of ships in the sea at any given time. It is extremely important to spot the ship before targeting it. There are limitations in terms of maritime reconnaissance and long-range searches," Verma said when asked about the threat posed by Chinese Anti-ship Ballistic Missile Programme.

He said it was "a complex problem" to use a conventional missile against a moving target at high seas.

Earlier, addressing the seminar, the Navy Chief said aircraft carriers were expensive and there were questions on their affordability and survivability due to their large size while at sea.

"Some even talk about carrying out land-based missile attacks against an aircraft carrier. We must weigh this against the difficulties of targeting a mobile target out at sea," he said, noting that carriers can move 600 nautical miles a day, which translates into one million square nautical miles of ocean area which an adversary has to search.

China's anti-ship missile not a threat: Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma - India - The Times of India

 

[fanboi]

What IS a threat then?

 

[applesauce]

missile not for india....

 

[faithfulguy]

missile not for india....

Its also not for the US as it could cause nuclear war. US will not stand by when the whole carrier goes down.

 

[Donatello]

China's anti-ship missile not a threat: Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma

Dismissing China's anti-ship missile programme as a threat to Indian warships, Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma today said it would be a difficult task to even spot the vessels in the vast expanse of high seas.

"Targeting ships at high seas is not an easy task or as simple as land warfare," Admiral Verma told reporters here on the sidelines of a seminar on aircraft carriers organised by the National Maritime Foundation here.

"There are hundreds and thousands of ships in the sea at any given time. It is extremely important to spot the ship before targeting it. There are limitations in terms of maritime reconnaissance and long-range searches," Verma said when asked about the threat posed by Chinese Anti-ship Ballistic Missile Programme.

He said it was "a complex problem" to use a conventional missile against a moving target at high seas.

Earlier, addressing the seminar, the Navy Chief said aircraft carriers were expensive and there were questions on their affordability and survivability due to their large size while at sea.

"Some even talk about carrying out land-based missile attacks against an aircraft carrier. We must weigh this against the difficulties of targeting a mobile target out at sea," he said, noting that carriers can move 600 nautical miles a day, which translates into one million square nautical miles of ocean area which an adversary has to search.

China's anti-ship missile not a threat: Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma - India - The Times of India

This guy is probably high on Crack or Weed.

Are you kidding me? May i ask him if he has ever heard of look down radars and AWACS and AEWACs? The purpose of such "Flying Radars" is to cover the area that the land based assets cannot, i.e look down over land, mountains and seas. Once the target is acquired, in Naval case a frigate would be too large to hide from a radar, its simply a missile that needs guidance and boom.

Exocet, Harpoon and their reverse engineered Chinese missiles. Or maybe he should hear more about the Pakistan Airforce dedicated sea attack Mirage squadron flying for the Navy.


Jeez....

 

[Peregrine]

Hi,
An anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) is a quasiballistic missile, of medium or intermediate range, designed to hit a ship at sea. Currently, there are no ship-board defense mechanisms that can counter an ASBM. A single hit from an ASBM has the potential to cripple or destroy outright a supercarrier.

Unlike a typical ballistic missile, which follows a sub-orbital ballistic flightpath after the relatively brief initial powered phase of flight, an ASBM requires, it seems, some kind of terminal guidance system to home in on its target.

China has developed the world's only anti-ship ballistic missile. It has successfully developed and tested the DF-21 anti-ship ballistic missile, with a range of up to 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi) or more, in 2005, according to the US Department of Defense. It is estimated to have reached initial operating capability in 2007 or 2008. It is thought that it is still in an evolutionary process as more UAV and satellites are added. The DF-21 anti-ship ballistic missile is expected to enter active service by 2009.

The United States Navy has responded by switching its focus from a close blockade force of shallow water vessels to return to building deep water ballistic defense destroyers.
from: Wiki

So apparently even the Americans are scared of it, Indians don't consider it a threat, India must be ahead of America in naval technology then, I guess America should start importing Indian version of Aegis

 

[jagjitnatt]

Hi,
An anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) is a quasiballistic missile, of medium or intermediate range, designed to hit a ship at sea. Currently, there are no ship-board defense mechanisms that can counter an ASBM. A single hit from an ASBM has the potential to cripple or destroy outright a supercarrier.

Unlike a typical ballistic missile, which follows a sub-orbital ballistic flightpath after the relatively brief initial powered phase of flight, an ASBM requires, it seems, some kind of terminal guidance system to home in on its target.

China has developed the world's only anti-ship ballistic missile. It has successfully developed and tested the DF-21 anti-ship ballistic missile, with a range of up to 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi) or more, in 2005, according to the US Department of Defense. It is estimated to have reached initial operating capability in 2007 or 2008. It is thought that it is still in an evolutionary process as more UAV and satellites are added. The DF-21 anti-ship ballistic missile is expected to enter active service by 2009.

The United States Navy has responded by switching its focus from a close blockade force of shallow water vessels to return to building deep water ballistic defense destroyers.
from: Wiki

So apparently even the Americans are scared of it, Indians don't consider it a threat, India must be ahead of America in naval technology then, I guess America should start importing Indian version of Aegis

Actually the thing is that the way ballistic missiles work, they are good for just stationary targets because during their re-entry phase, they are without engines and they cannot maneuver once they enter the atmosphere. Even if some mechanism is used to add maneuverability, it would be almost impossible to hit a moving target. No country in the world uses a ballistic missile for such a purpose which is why this missile is said to be the first ballistic anti-ship missile. US and russia can also build something like this, but its not effective enough, which is why they use cruise missiles, subs and air support for taking out ships.

China ( somewhat like India ) has a habit of overstretching their capabilities when they talk. They also said their SD10 missiles can handle stress upto 45 g. Also about their tanks they believe their armor is unpenetrable. So yeah, they do go over the board.

If the missile would have been a cruise missile, it would have been a great worry.

So I am with the officer this time. The anti-ship missile is not a worry.

 

[Dash]

This guy is probably high on Crack or Weed.

Are you kidding me? May i ask him if he has ever heard of look down radars and AWACS and AEWACs? The purpose of such "Flying Radars" is to cover the area that the land based assets cannot, i.e look down over land, mountains and seas. Once the target is acquired, in Naval case a frigate would be too large to hide from a radar, its simply a missile that needs guidance and boom.

Exocet, Harpoon and their reverse engineered Chinese missiles. Or maybe he should hear more about the Pakistan Airforce dedicated sea attack Mirage squadron flying for the Navy.


Jeez....

Since when AWACS have been tracking targets for Ships which are 2000 to 3000 miles away? and since when AWACs are giving traget acquisition signals for Ballistic missiles?

This is not a valid logic that you have posted.

 

[Peregrine]

Actually the thing is that the way ballistic missiles work, they are good for just stationary targets because during their re-entry phase, they are without engines and they cannot maneuver once they enter the atmosphere. Even if some mechanism is used to add maneuverability, it would be almost impossible to hit a moving target. No country in the world uses a ballistic missile for such a purpose which is why this missile is said to be the first ballistic anti-ship missile. US and russia can also build something like this, but its not effective enough, which is why they use cruise missiles, subs and air support for taking out ships.

China ( somewhat like India ) has a habit of overstretching their capabilities when they talk. They also said their SD10 missiles can handle stress upto 45 g. Also about their tanks they believe their armor is unpenetrable. So yeah, they do go over the board.

If the missile would have been a cruise missile, it would have been a great worry.

So I am with the officer this time. The anti-ship missile is not a worry.

Hi,
it is a ballistic missile but it is not an ordinary ballistic missile, here is some thing which will explain some thing, as u your yourself had admitted that a cruise missile is more effective so here it goes
"One source familiar with (a U.S. Navy) classified briefing said that while anti-ship cruise missiles and other threats were known to exist, "those aren't the worst." The new threat, which "didn't exist a couple years ago," is a "land-launched ballistic missile that converts to a cruise missile." Other sources confirmed that a new, classified missile threat is being briefed at very high levels. One admiral, said another source, was told his ships should simply "stay away. There are no options."
there is nothing that suggests that it cannot target moving ships, very little is known about it's technical know how, so you admit it or not it is a very capable missile and one of its kind, if Americans and russians don't have it it doesn't mean they don't want it the logic also points out that they haven't been able to build one so far .

 

[jagjitnatt]

Hi,
it is a ballistic missile but it is not an ordinary ballistic missile, here is some thing which will explain some thing, as u your yourself had admitted that a cruise missile is more effective so here it goes
"One source familiar with (a U.S. Navy) classified briefing said that while anti-ship cruise missiles and other threats were known to exist, "those aren't the worst." The new threat, which "didn't exist a couple years ago," is a "land-launched ballistic missile that converts to a cruise missile." Other sources confirmed that a new, classified missile threat is being briefed at very high levels. One admiral, said another source, was told his ships should simply "stay away. There are no options."
there is nothing that suggests that it cannot target moving ships, very little is known about it's technical know how, so you admit it or not it is a very capable missile and one of its kind, if Americans and russians don't have it it doesn't mean they don't want it the logic also points out that they haven't been able to build one so far .

please read my post where i describe about the over exaggeration by china and India in defence fields.

I understand the missile, but after entering the atmosphere, it would be just a falling rock with supersonic velocities. Sure it can change its direction but very little.

This is not a groundbreaking missile by any means. Ballistic missiles can never be used for such purposes. At least I believe so.
About the briefing, I am not aware anything like that happened.

As you said, very little is known about the missile, so calling it a wonder won't be right. I can bet its over hyped like all chinese missiles.

 

[Dash]

there is nothing that suggests that it cannot target moving ships, very little is known about it's technical know how,

Agreed, but it doesnt even say that it can tackle moving traget. Speculation is good but not that good to prove anything.

Actually the thing is that the way ballistic missiles work, they are good for just stationary targets because during their re-entry phase, they are without engines and they cannot maneuver once they enter the atmosphere. Even if some mechanism is used to add maneuverability,

You didnt read Jagjitnat's post clearly,
he said, once the ballistic missile reenters atmosphere, its without an engine. So adding manuevarability is a big task.

I read from wiki that its guided by GPS, you know what that means.

As of now, its good for theory, but nothing more than that.
So me some "Reliable resource". We will discuss it.

 

[Peregrine]

Agreed, but it doesnt even say that it can tackle moving traget. Speculation is good but not that good to prove anything.




You didnt read Jagjitnat's post clearly,
he said, once the ballistic missile reenters atmosphere, its without an engine. So adding manuevarability is a big task.

I read from wiki that its guided by GPS, you know what that means.

As of now, its good for theory, but nothing more than that.
So me some "Reliable resource". We will discuss it.

Hi,
here is an intelligence report prepared by the Americans and is taken from Wiki, this was before the Chinese announcement of having an ASBM

The US Department of Defense has stated that China is developing a high hypersonic land-based anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) based on the DF-21, with a range of up to 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi). This would be the world's first and only ASBM and the world's first weapons system capable of targeting a moving aircraft carrier strike group from long-range, land-based mobile launchers. These would combine manoeuvrable reentry vehicles (MaRVs) with some kind of terminal guidance system. Such a missile may have been tested in 2005-6, and the launch of the Jianbing-5/YaoGan-1 and Jianbing-6/YaoGan-2 satellites would give the Chinese targeting information from SAR and visual imaging respectivel

and apparently u didnt read my post clearly which suggested that it is a ballistic missile but becomes a cruise missile, and not that it also features The maneuverable reentry vehicle (abbreviated MARV or MaRV) is a type of nuclear warhead capable of shifting targets in flight

 

[Peregrine]

please read my post where i describe about the over exaggeration by china and India in defence fields.

I understand the missile, but after entering the atmosphere, it would be just a falling rock with supersonic velocities. Sure it can change its direction but very little.

This is not a groundbreaking missile by any means. Ballistic missiles can never be used for such purposes. At least I believe so.
About the briefing, I am not aware anything like that happened.

As you said, very little is known about the missile, so calling it a wonder won't be right. I can bet its over hyped like all chinese missiles.

Hi,
But this Hype is not only coming from Chinese, Americans have also acknowledged some state of the art features of this missile, please also look at the American intelligence report that i have posted above

 

[manojb]

My guess is ASBM with MIRV is not primary weapon against AC. It will be used when AC is sitting duck by previous hits from Torpedo or Cruise missiles and Ac's CIWS is not functioning. Or one can fire swarm of these ASBM on ACG.. ! BTW how much does each missile with range of 1000 km cost ??

 

[Peregrine]

My guess is ASBM with MIRV is not primary weapon against AC. It will be used when AC is sitting duck by previous hits from Torpedo or Cruise missiles and Ac's CIWS is not functioning. Or one can fire swarm of these ASBM on ACG.. ! BTW how much does each missile with range of 1000 km cost ??

Hi
dude, its MARV( manouverable rentry vehicle) not MIRV( Multiple independent rentry vehicle)
MARV can chage its target while in flight
MIRV can strike multiple targets
There is a difference