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Damning report on the F-35’s dogfighting problems

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Here are the most damning parts of the report on the F-35’s dogfighting problems | National Post

Here are the most damning parts of the report on the F-35’s dogfighting problems
Jeremy Bender, Business Insider | July 3, 2015 8:46 AM ET
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AP Photo / Northrop Grumman, FileThe F-35, the most expensive weapons project in history, was incapable of beating a jet it was meant to replace in a dogfight, according to a leaked report obtained by defence blog War Is Boring

The F-35, the most expensive weapons project in history, was incapable of beating a jet it was meant to replace in a dogfight, according to a leaked report obtained by defence blog War is Boring.

The report, written by an F-35 test pilot who has more than 2,000 hours of flight time in the F-15E and experience flying both F-16s and F-18s, highlights a range of problems with the U.S.’s hyper-costly and often dysfunctional “plane of the future” in a dogfighting scenario.

(Canada is taking a wait-and-see approach to the planes.)

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The pilot’s complete report can be read over at War Is Boring.

Below, we’ve pulled some notable quotations from the report highlighting the issues that the F-35 faced while dogfighting against an F-16.

• “Overall, the most noticeable characteristic of the F-35A in a visual engagement was its lack of energy maneuverability.”
• “No effective gun defense was found during this test.”
• “The helmet was too large for the space inside the canopy to adequately see behind the aircraft. There were multiple occasions when the bandit would’ve been visible (not blocked by the seat) but the helmet prevented getting in a position to see him (behind the high side of the seat, around the inside of the seat, or high near the lift vector).”
• “The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage in a turning fight and operators would quickly learn it isn’t an ideal regime.”
• “Though the aircraft has proven it is capable of high AOA [angle of attack] flight, it wasn’t effective for killing or surviving attacks primarily due to a lack of energy maneuverability.”

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Handout / Lockheed Martin F-35A test aircraft AF-4, captured during refueling from the U.S. Air Force tanker.
As damning as the report is, it’s worth remembering that the aircraft was never truly designed for dogfighting scenarios. Additionally, the test F-35 used in the test dogfight lacked many of the sensor and software upgrades that the fully deployed F-35 will have.

According to Jane’s 360, the F-35 is designed to detect and engage aircraft “on its own medium- to long-range terms.” The plane’s flexible attack range is intended to ensure that the F-35 wouldn’t usually have to engage in dogfights.

Still, the US$1.5 trillion F-35’s failure to best an F-16 — a plane that was first introduced into service in 1978, is concerning. Although the F-35 may be designed to overcome rival aircraft at distance, there are is no way to guarantee that a future air war won’t involve frequent dogfights, confrontations for which the F-35 may be ill-equipped.

Stealth may be overrated

Meanwhile, both Russia and China are currently developing their own fifth-generation fighter jets. Both countries may also intend to sell variants of their jets to the international customers, including Pakistan and Iran.

Ultimately, the F-35 may never need to participate in close-quarter, air-to-air battles. The aircraft is stealthy and may never have to dogfight with regularity.

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jon Greenert isn’t so sure. “Stealth may be overrated,” Greenert said during a speech in February. So in addition to its other problems, the F-35 may find itself nose-to-nose with enemy aircraft more often than military planners expect.
 
I wanna know is how would any enemy aircraft even get close enough to the F-35 for a dog fight???

it's on board radar and sensors would see them first or at least AWAKS would. only planes I think that would have a chance would be another 5th gen fighter.

$1.5 trillion number is funny. that is after buying thousands of these and operating them for 55 years. if F-35 is flop we would only buy a few hundred and develop a better airframe which might cost a few billion or tens of billions, but hey it's better than spending $1.5 trillion over half a century on a lemon.
How DOD’s $1.5 Trillion F-35 Broke the Air Force
 
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I wanna know is how wouldn't any enemy aircraft even get close enough to the F-35 for a dog fight???

it's on board radar and sensors would see them first or at least AWAKS would. only planes I think that would have a chance would be another 5th gen fighter.

$1.5 trillion number is funny. that is after buying thousands of these and operating them for 55 years. if F-35 is flop we would only buy a few hundred and develop a better airfram which migt cost a few billion or tens of billions, but hey better than spending $1.5 trillion over a century on a lemon.
How DOD’s $1.5 Trillion F-35 Broke the Air Force

I don't like how the US spends so much on defence....But the way these articles misguide you with how much is being spent is just pathetic....

$1500B over 55yrs is a little over $27B per year on average. Then there's those stupid articles suggesting that the same money could buy $664,000 houses for every homeless man. Hey how about these homeless men actually do something to create wealth and use that wealth to get home instead of the rest of the nation paying for their homes through taxes.
 
Here are the most damning parts of the report on the F-35’s dogfighting problems
The F-35, the most expensive weapons project in history, was incapable of beating a jet it was meant to replace in a dogfight, according to a leaked report obtained by defence blog War is Boring. .

This report probably means more funding is going to be requested for a different aircraft, or to continue -16's future builds :omghaha::usflag:. This is how LM works.
The -35 or the -22, like I've explained a million times for over the past two years, aren't designed for a dog fight. The closest it would come to a dog fight, would be to use the newer AIM9X, which is currently undergoing testing and production builds. The -35 and the -22 are designed to come in, in the initiation phase of a conflict primarily, take out ir defense and air assets flying or on the ground, establish air superiority and allow the -16's, -15's and the -18's to clean up the remainder of the mess.
As other platforms are doing the remainder of the work, the -35 and the -22 will provide fighter escorts, still using stealth to their advantage and taking out enemy jets from distances. The -16's and other assets can get into a dog fight when something comes this close. Its really as simple as that. Also, the -16 is still the most enumerable airplane, it takes out pretty much all other platforms in exercises and in combat situations. Just because it first flew in 1976 or 1978, doesn't mean it hasn't been upgraded with today's technology. So this report is for other purposes as I explained above.
 
This report probably means more funding is going to be requested for a different aircraft, or to continue -16's future builds :omghaha::usflag:

What is our fault if we read it and ask for clarifications? What is their to get personal as you did in other thread?
Certainly not native American attitude!

I wanna know is how would any enemy aircraft even get close enough to the F-35 for a dog fight???

Ask those who are anticipating dog fight scenarios and testing it for the same.
 
What is our fault if we read it and ask for clarifications? What is their to get personal as you did in other thread?
Certainly not native American attitude! .

I have no clue what you are trying to say here. But when people start posting a little article trying to "prove" nothing on like 5 different thread, you'd be getting tired of explanations. This wasn't posted here for clarifications, it was posted here with propaganda in mind. Its pretty obvious what's in your avatar so your posts make perfect sense here.
 

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