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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

No such news in the french newspaper today. But it doesn't make the Broadsword one's false....

cancelling Rafale is one thing but the systematic portrayal of French negotiators and the whole negotiation process in such a negative light is always an issue.. Indian negotiators are also not fools but seasoned bureaucrats.. They wont do any nonsense in negotiations..

some of his words may be true, no one says it cant be.. but most of his words in this article is false.. its a factual distortion. comparing Scorpene and Agosta just to play on sentiments is laughable.. A similar case is that original plan is 286 rafales and a new tranche will be ordered beyond 180, but author says there wont be more orders. An IGA as SG, will IGA be approved by Finance Ministry and Parliament? Its again a distortion.. In that case a parliamentary committee has to authorize PM to sign the IGA on their behalf for the IGA to have a SG status from Indian side and a similar structure from France's side..


Article

Paris is beginning to acknowledge the possibility that India might not buy the Rafale fighter because of sharp differences over the price, and New Delhi’s insistence on enforceable guarantees regarding the fighter’s delivery, performance and availability.

A senior French official with a close view of the on-going negotiations between New Delhi and Paris for 36 Rafale fighters told Business Standard: “If some people in the MoD do not want to allow the Rafale deal to go through, so be it. We are currently building it for Egypt and Qatar, and we could have another customer in Malaysia.”

Underlining the irritation at repeated US offers to set up an assembly line in India to build the American F-16 Super Viper, the French official taunted: “If you don’t want the Rafale, go ahead and build the F-16 here. You can build it in India and supply it to Pakistan also.”

He was referring to Washington’s announcement last month of the sale to Pakistan of eight advanced Block 50/52 F-16 fighters for $699 million. Simultaneously, a senior Lockheed Martin official had publicly offered to “move our [F-16] production line from the US to India.”

Reminded that France too was supplying submarines to both India and Pakistan (DCNS is building six Scorpenes submarines with Mazagon Dock, after earlier selling Pakistan three advanced Agosta-90B submarines with air independent propulsion), he retorted, “That is different. Pakistan is getting a different submarine from what we are providing to India.”

The official dismissed the notion that an Indian order was critical for Dassault to break even in the Rafale project, in which tens of billion Euros have been spent on developing the fighter and establishing a production line. The official claimed, “The Rafale project is commercially viable based on the numbers that the French military requires, even if there is not a single export order.”

In fact, defence budget cuts have forced the French military to slash Rafale orders from over 300 originally planned to just 180 ordered so far. That is a small order, given that the Eurofighter Typhoon has over 700 aircraft on order; while more than 4,500 F-16s have been built over the years.

On New Delhi’s demands for sovereign guarantees from the French government, or a bank guarantee from Dassault, to cover the possibility of delivery or performance shortfalls in the Rafale, the official declared that the two countries would soon sign an inter-governmental agreement (IGA), which would function as a sovereign guarantee.

“The government of France is standing behind the sale. Surely India is not asking for a bank guarantee when it has the word of the French government?” asked the official.

When it was pointed out that the IGA would only outline a supply agreement in broad terms, without detailed binding clauses and penalties, the official responded that the IGA was a strategic agreement between Paris and New Delhi, and that “a phrase here or a sentence there would make no difference.”

“In 1917, when the United States abandoned its isolationism and sent a division of troops to France to fight in World War I, it was not because there was some document with a clause that required them to fight. It was because of a common strategic aim. New Delhi and Paris must have a common strategic aim on the Rafale.”

French officials argue that, if Dassault is required to provide a bank guarantee against possible shortfalls in delivery and performance, India should cover that cost, which is normally 3-4 per cent of the guarantee amount.

Meanwhile, the Cost Negotiation Committee on the Rafale has made little headway in bridging the gap between the French demand and Indian counter-offer, which are believed to be around Euro 12 billion and Euro 9 billion respectively. Issues of liability are further complicating the likelihood of a deal soon.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while visiting Paris last April, had requested for 36 Rafales, after a breakdown in negotiations for a much larger order for 126 Rafales. The Indian Air Force had chosen the Rafale on January 31, 2012, after an exhaustive evaluation of six fighter aircraft.

Broadsword: India may not buy Rafale: French official
 
You knw very well.. If I say something also I will be called a "fanboy"

But then also I will say I would go by trappier's confidence over shukla's confidence..

This line is straight picked from PDF.. He just changed the words :woot:

If you don’t want the Rafale, go ahead and build the F-16 here. You can build it in India and supply it to Pakistan also.”
Although the offer made by the US to India for the sale of F16 is very lucrative but i think F16 will be the last plane on earth India would buy. there are number of reasons for that. why would India buy a plane which is being used by its adversary for more then 3 decays.. PAF knows everything about this planne, its limitations and its reach. It is very understandable that the Fighter offered to India is way better then the 1 PAF has but it PAF war planners can assume its capabilities due to long experience with the machine. Just Imagine if it goes in a war with Pak and initially it gets shot down it will bring moral of IAF pilots down to ground because they will be thinking that its done because PAF knows this plane..
 
Although the offer made by the US to India for the sale of F16 is very lucrative but i think F16 will be the last plane on earth India would buy. there are number of reasons for that. why would India buy a plane which is being used by its adversary for more then 3 decays.. PAF knows everything about this planne, its limitations and its reach. It is very understandable that the Fighter offered to India is way better then the 1 PAF has but it PAF war planners can assume its capabilities due to long experience with the machine. Just Imagine if it goes in a war with Pak and initially it gets shot down it will bring moral of IAF pilots down to ground because they will be thinking that its done because PAF knows this plane..

My good sir, even you and i understand that fact and yet you have read how in our Indian media , F16 articles were published .. Sadly, everything logical is thrown out of the window.. and defense reporting has become really pathetic..

If you sir, have time pls search for a chap named "Bharat Karnad". Once you read his articles, i recommend a good strong cup of coffee for your terrible headaches...
 
Unnamed senior French official as a source,
which are believed to be around Euro 12 billion and Euro 9 billion respectively erroneous numbers,
Issues of liability are further complicating the likelihood of a deal soon. concludes by citing another
piece that was itself secretly sourced.

Trash in, thrash out; Bon Plan was too polite. Tay.
 
cancelling Rafale is one thing but the systematic portrayal of French negotiators and the whole negotiation process in such a negative light is always an issue.. Indian negotiators are also not fools but seasoned bureaucrats.. They wont do any nonsense in negotiations..

some of his words may be true, no one says it cant be.. but most of his words in this article is false.. its a factual distortion. comparing Scorpene and Agosta just to play on sentiments is laughable.. A similar case is that original plan is 286 rafales and a new tranche will be ordered beyond 180, but author says there wont be more orders. An IGA as SG, will IGA be approved by Finance Ministry and Parliament? Its again a distortion.. In that case a parliamentary committee has to authorize PM to sign the IGA on their behalf for the IGA to have a SG status from Indian side and a similar structure from France's side..


Article

Paris is beginning to acknowledge the possibility that India might not buy the Rafale fighter because of sharp differences over the price, and New Delhi’s insistence on enforceable guarantees regarding the fighter’s delivery, performance and availability.

A senior French official with a close view of the on-going negotiations between New Delhi and Paris for 36 Rafale fighters told Business Standard: “If some people in the MoD do not want to allow the Rafale deal to go through, so be it. We are currently building it for Egypt and Qatar, and we could have another customer in Malaysia.”

Underlining the irritation at repeated US offers to set up an assembly line in India to build the American F-16 Super Viper, the French official taunted: “If you don’t want the Rafale, go ahead and build the F-16 here. You can build it in India and supply it to Pakistan also.”

He was referring to Washington’s announcement last month of the sale to Pakistan of eight advanced Block 50/52 F-16 fighters for $699 million. Simultaneously, a senior Lockheed Martin official had publicly offered to “move our [F-16] production line from the US to India.”

Reminded that France too was supplying submarines to both India and Pakistan (DCNS is building six Scorpenes submarines with Mazagon Dock, after earlier selling Pakistan three advanced Agosta-90B submarines with air independent propulsion), he retorted, “That is different. Pakistan is getting a different submarine from what we are providing to India.”

The official dismissed the notion that an Indian order was critical for Dassault to break even in the Rafale project, in which tens of billion Euros have been spent on developing the fighter and establishing a production line. The official claimed, “The Rafale project is commercially viable based on the numbers that the French military requires, even if there is not a single export order.”

In fact, defence budget cuts have forced the French military to slash Rafale orders from over 300 originally planned to just 180 ordered so far. That is a small order, given that the Eurofighter Typhoon has over 700 aircraft on order; while more than 4,500 F-16s have been built over the years.

On New Delhi’s demands for sovereign guarantees from the French government, or a bank guarantee from Dassault, to cover the possibility of delivery or performance shortfalls in the Rafale, the official declared that the two countries would soon sign an inter-governmental agreement (IGA), which would function as a sovereign guarantee.

“The government of France is standing behind the sale. Surely India is not asking for a bank guarantee when it has the word of the French government?” asked the official.

When it was pointed out that the IGA would only outline a supply agreement in broad terms, without detailed binding clauses and penalties, the official responded that the IGA was a strategic agreement between Paris and New Delhi, and that “a phrase here or a sentence there would make no difference.”

“In 1917, when the United States abandoned its isolationism and sent a division of troops to France to fight in World War I, it was not because there was some document with a clause that required them to fight. It was because of a common strategic aim. New Delhi and Paris must have a common strategic aim on the Rafale.”

French officials argue that, if Dassault is required to provide a bank guarantee against possible shortfalls in delivery and performance, India should cover that cost, which is normally 3-4 per cent of the guarantee amount.

Meanwhile, the Cost Negotiation Committee on the Rafale has made little headway in bridging the gap between the French demand and Indian counter-offer, which are believed to be around Euro 12 billion and Euro 9 billion respectively. Issues of liability are further complicating the likelihood of a deal soon.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while visiting Paris last April, had requested for 36 Rafales, after a breakdown in negotiations for a much larger order for 126 Rafales. The Indian Air Force had chosen the Rafale on January 31, 2012, after an exhaustive evaluation of six fighter aircraft.

Broadsword: India may not buy Rafale: French official

It would be indeed interesting to know what kind of advances French are asking for. Now I am in no way suggesting that in absence of BG or SG, advance be withheld but may be there is a scope for compromise here.

As for India bearing the cost of guarantee - ridiculous if true. I would tell the French to take hike if I were in the negotiation team and French made such a suggestion.

PG are part and parcel of acquisition process and the seller usually factors in the cost in bid amount. I don't know why such basic things are causing such distress, again with a caveat that I am assuming that disagreements over incorporating liability is indeed true.

Curiously enough while we are seeing a smattering of advertorials and opinion pieces, actual information on the status is blanked out from the MoD, PMO and MEA. I am quite sure the sabotage attempts/pressure tactics are not from GoI but from either the third parties (Russians) or French themselves to back GoI in the corner on contentious issues.

Meanwhile be ready for some great news during the second budget session
 
It would be indeed interesting to know what kind of advances French are asking for. Now I am in no way suggesting that in absence of BG or SG, advance be withheld but may be there is a scope for compromise here.

As for India bearing the cost of guarantee - ridiculous if true. I would tell the French to take hike if I were in the negotiation team and French made such a suggestion.

PG are part and parcel of acquisition process and the seller usually factors in the cost in bid amount. I don't know why such basic things are causing such distress, again with a caveat that I am assuming that disagreements over incorporating liability is indeed true.

Curiously enough while we are seeing a smattering of advertorials and opinion pieces, actual information on the status is blanked out from the MoD, PMO and MEA. I am quite sure the sabotage attempts/pressure tactics are not from GoI but from either the third parties (Russians) or French themselves to back GoI in the corner on contentious issues.

Meanwhile be ready for some great news during the second budget session

You want to read something more that hit my inbox today morning. Read this and you will understand why Anti rafale news in last few weeks and whose behind all that ..

Lockheed To Make "Formal Offer" Next Month About F-16 Sale to India
01:40 PM, March 16, 2016

lockheed__1458132570.jpg

F-16 fighter jet fleet (Image: Lockheed Martin on Flickr)

Lockheed Martin is expected to make a formal offer to New Delhi about manufacturing the F-16 fighter aircraft in India next month.

Lockheed Martin officials will be travelling to India with a formal offer next month, Susan Ouzts, vice president of Lockheed’s F-16 program told reporters during the annual media day in Washington Tuesday.

“Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had expressed “substantial” interest in the plane during a recent meeting with Lockheed,” Susan said.

“Lockheed was working with the US government, which is in talks with India about possibly building F-16s in India,” said Orlando Carvalho, Lockheed’s Aeronautics division.

"We are ready to manufacture F-16 in India and support the Make in India initiative," Phil Shaw, chief executive of Lockheed Martin India said during the Singapore Airshow 2016.

Industry observers said Lockheed Martin's "wish to manufacture F-16 is based on the strong demand from the Indian armed forces and would want to lower the cost of the planes for exports by using the low-cost capability in India”.

"Certainly, Lockheed Martin would want to exploit the engineering skill and low cost capabilities in India and make F-16 very competitive in the fighter jet markets," PTI news agency quoted an unnamed source as saying in Februrary.

“If the two governments reach an agreement this year or 2017, putting aside all differences on the mega project and the US' move to supply eight F-16 to Pakistan, Lockheed Martin could roll out the first made in India jet in 2019-2020,” the source said.

Lockheed Martin has offered India advanced version of the F-16 fighter jets than those that will be delivered to Pakistan.


Lockheed To Make "Formal Offer" Next Month About F-16 Sale to India

++
Now tell me
  1. PM NaMo interested
  2. Strong Demand from IAF
  3. low cost exports
  4. rolling out from 2019-2020
Clearly, if IAF is interested in F16s, that would be the colossal mistake of all time.. yet article says IAF interested and production within 30 months max...

Is it not an desperate move to undercut Rafale MII..

I mean they can give an offer surely, its upto us whether we say yes or not. But if India is also interested especially IAF.. Then what happens to Tejas program, or even LSA (@randomradio)

@Abingdonboy @MilSpec @Taygibay @AUSTERLITZ @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Spectre
Its literally a circus now.. all dancing.. Saab, LM, Boeing.. all dancing to musical chairs with a sole aim to upseat France/Dassault Rafale
 
You want to read something more that hit my inbox today morning. Read this and you will understand why Anti rafale news in last few weeks and whose behind all that ..

Lockheed To Make "Formal Offer" Next Month About F-16 Sale to India
01:40 PM, March 16, 2016

lockheed__1458132570.jpg

F-16 fighter jet fleet (Image: Lockheed Martin on Flickr)

Lockheed Martin is expected to make a formal offer to New Delhi about manufacturing the F-16 fighter aircraft in India next month.

Lockheed Martin officials will be travelling to India with a formal offer next month, Susan Ouzts, vice president of Lockheed’s F-16 program told reporters during the annual media day in Washington Tuesday.

“Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had expressed “substantial” interest in the plane during a recent meeting with Lockheed,” Susan said.

“Lockheed was working with the US government, which is in talks with India about possibly building F-16s in India,” said Orlando Carvalho, Lockheed’s Aeronautics division.

"We are ready to manufacture F-16 in India and support the Make in India initiative," Phil Shaw, chief executive of Lockheed Martin India said during the Singapore Airshow 2016.

Industry observers said Lockheed Martin's "wish to manufacture F-16 is based on the strong demand from the Indian armed forces and would want to lower the cost of the planes for exports by using the low-cost capability in India”.

"Certainly, Lockheed Martin would want to exploit the engineering skill and low cost capabilities in India and make F-16 very competitive in the fighter jet markets," PTI news agency quoted an unnamed source as saying in Februrary.

“If the two governments reach an agreement this year or 2017, putting aside all differences on the mega project and the US' move to supply eight F-16 to Pakistan, Lockheed Martin could roll out the first made in India jet in 2019-2020,” the source said.

Lockheed Martin has offered India advanced version of the F-16 fighter jets than those that will be delivered to Pakistan.


Lockheed To Make "Formal Offer" Next Month About F-16 Sale to India

++
Now tell me
  1. PM NaMo interested
  2. Strong Demand from IAF
  3. low cost exports
  4. rolling out from 2019-2020
Clearly, if IAF is interested in F16s, that would be the colossal mistake of all time.. yet article says IAF interested and production within 30 months max...

Is it not an desperate move to undercut Rafale MII..

I mean they can give an offer surely, its upto us whether we say yes or not. But if India is also interested especially IAF.. Then what happens to Tejas program, or even LSA (@randomradio)

@Abingdonboy @MilSpec @Taygibay @AUSTERLITZ @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Spectre
Its literally a circus now.. all dancing.. Saab, LM, Boeing.. all dancing to musical chairs with a sole aim to upseat France/Dassault Rafale

f-16 are not a threat exactly to Rafales. I am concerned that HAL if ever can achieve the numbers for LCA before it becomes completely obsolete. May be F-16s display lack of confidence on LCA as a mainstay light fighter. Ofcourse no one will admit and the project will produce some numbers like Arjun did but for all practical intents and purposes GoI is giving it up. This only holds true if and only if F-16s are selected and a domestic line opened
 
You want to read something more that hit my inbox today morning. Read this and you will understand why Anti rafale news in last few weeks and whose behind all that ..

Lockheed To Make "Formal Offer" Next Month About F-16 Sale to India
01:40 PM, March 16, 2016

lockheed__1458132570.jpg

F-16 fighter jet fleet (Image: Lockheed Martin on Flickr)

Lockheed Martin is expected to make a formal offer to New Delhi about manufacturing the F-16 fighter aircraft in India next month.

Lockheed Martin officials will be travelling to India with a formal offer next month, Susan Ouzts, vice president of Lockheed’s F-16 program told reporters during the annual media day in Washington Tuesday.

“Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had expressed “substantial” interest in the plane during a recent meeting with Lockheed,” Susan said.

“Lockheed was working with the US government, which is in talks with India about possibly building F-16s in India,” said Orlando Carvalho, Lockheed’s Aeronautics division.

"We are ready to manufacture F-16 in India and support the Make in India initiative," Phil Shaw, chief executive of Lockheed Martin India said during the Singapore Airshow 2016.

Industry observers said Lockheed Martin's "wish to manufacture F-16 is based on the strong demand from the Indian armed forces and would want to lower the cost of the planes for exports by using the low-cost capability in India”.

"Certainly, Lockheed Martin would want to exploit the engineering skill and low cost capabilities in India and make F-16 very competitive in the fighter jet markets," PTI news agency quoted an unnamed source as saying in Februrary.

“If the two governments reach an agreement this year or 2017, putting aside all differences on the mega project and the US' move to supply eight F-16 to Pakistan, Lockheed Martin could roll out the first made in India jet in 2019-2020,” the source said.

Lockheed Martin has offered India advanced version of the F-16 fighter jets than those that will be delivered to Pakistan.


Lockheed To Make "Formal Offer" Next Month About F-16 Sale to India

++
Now tell me
  1. PM NaMo interested
  2. Strong Demand from IAF
  3. low cost exports
  4. rolling out from 2019-2020
Clearly, if IAF is interested in F16s, that would be the colossal mistake of all time.. yet article says IAF interested and production within 30 months max...

Is it not an desperate move to undercut Rafale MII..

I mean they can give an offer surely, its upto us whether we say yes or not. But if India is also interested especially IAF.. Then what happens to Tejas program, or even LSA (@randomradio)

@Abingdonboy @MilSpec @Taygibay @AUSTERLITZ @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Spectre
Its literally a circus now.. all dancing.. Saab, LM, Boeing.. all dancing to musical chairs with a sole aim to upseat France/Dassault Rafale

Everybody is preying on public opinion. Anyway, out of 400 to 500 jets that the IAF needs, only 126 Rafale and 126 LCA are confirmed. That leaves 150-250 aircraft in the game.

If they manage to bring down Rafale, then the numbers increase by 126.

The only threat to Rafale is the SH.
 
Reading the above post by Randomradio, if India indeed has extra slot of 150-200 aircrafts, is there any possibility of F-16s. It's not necessary for IAF to field all its inventory against PAF. Americans have made it clear that to F-16 tech gets to the Chinese hands. May be IAF can use F-16s against PLAAF? Is there a possibility?
 
@PARIKRAMA @randomradio @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @tayagibay

Could you people suggest some good technical books regarding Engine design. I am a mechanical engineering student and while basics (very very basic) of turbine engine design is there in course, detailed study of Jet Engines is not in syllabus.

If book is available in low price edition, it would be even better as I could not buy an imported version costing over 10,000 Rupee.
 
f-16 are not a threat exactly to Rafales. I am concerned that HAL if ever can achieve the numbers for LCA before it becomes completely obsolete. May be F-16s display lack of confidence on LCA as a mainstay light fighter. Ofcourse no one will admit and the project will produce some numbers like Arjun did but for all practical intents and purposes GoI is giving it up. This only holds true if and only if F-16s are selected and a domestic line opened

Everybody is preying on public opinion. Anyway, out of 400 to 500 jets that the IAF needs, only 126 Rafale and 126 LCA are confirmed. That leaves 150-250 aircraft in the game.

If they manage to bring down Rafale, then the numbers increase by 126.

The only threat to Rafale is the SH.

I had said the same thing again and again.. The execution is the key here..

No one will say on record they dont trust HAL execution skills for Tejas program.. The confidence or rather lack of it gets confirmed the moment we induct another light fighter.. and a parallel production line with the words we need more jets in a quicker time frame in light category.

The biggest plus point for F16s is the fact that US MIC even with a line in India can produce easily 40-50 jets a year and build over 400+ jets over next 10 years.. If they start production by 2019 or heck full production from Jan 2020 by 2027 end we can have easily 40 x 8 =320 F16s to 50 x 8 = 400 F16s.. For them its a normal production rate..

Thats a humongous advantage any given day.. Monetary wise such huge numbers coupled with lower cost of production may see an advantage in and around 15-20% once we hit economies of scale.

But here is the downward risk - Our light category becomes US dependent fully.. and it kills everything from Tejas future to LSA to anything else in Light category..

Its something similar even Boeing is capable of for numbers per year.. Surely Rafale too can be produced if we invest for such numbers..

I get when you all say 16 is not a direct threat, but here comes the twist.. Looking at budget and perhaps signing amount allocation. Even for MII, in all practical sense we wont be able to sign multiple MII for jet production this year.. At best one this year, another next year and so on.. This is where i see a small but tangible risk..

Actually SH will now surely follow with an offer and so will be Saab seeing LM offer.. Its going to be raining offers...
 
@PARIKRAMA @randomradio @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @tayagibay

Could you people suggest some good technical books regarding Engine design. I am a mechanical engineering student and while basics (very very basic) of turbine engine design is there in course, detailed study of Jet Engines is not in syllabus.

If book is available in low price edition, it would be even better as I could not buy an imported version costing over 10,000 Rupee.
Jet Engines: Fundamentals of Theory, Design and Operation: Klaus Hunecke: 9781853108341: Amazon.com: Books

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/00..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=02XNVKD64SW6GTHGS1WG

http://www.amazon.com/Aircraft-Powe..._UL160_SR125,160_&refRID=1K3NK5N6T6F5C6H6HC21
 
I had said the same thing again and again.. The execution is the key here..

No one will say on record they dont trust HAL execution skills for Tejas program.. The confidence or rather lack of it gets confirmed the moment we induct another light fighter.. and a parallel production line with the words we need more jets in a quicker time frame in light category.

The biggest plus point for F16s is the fact that US MIC even with a line in India can produce easily 40-50 jets a year and build over 400+ jets over next 10 years.. If they start production by 2019 or heck full production from Jan 2020 by 2027 end we can have easily 40 x 8 =320 F16s to 50 x 8 = 400 F16s.. For them its a normal production rate..

Thats a humongous advantage any given day.. Monetary wise such huge numbers coupled with lower cost of production may see an advantage in and around 15-20% once we hit economies of scale.

But here is the downward risk - Our light category becomes US dependent fully.. and it kills everything from Tejas future to LSA to anything else in Light category..

Its something similar even Boeing is capable of for numbers per year.. Surely Rafale too can be produced if we invest for such numbers..

I get when you all say 16 is not a direct threat, but here comes the twist.. Looking at budget and perhaps signing amount allocation. Even for MII, in all practical sense we wont be able to sign multiple MII for jet production this year.. At best one this year, another next year and so on.. This is where i see a small but tangible risk..

Actually SH will now surely follow with an offer and so will be Saab seeing LM offer.. Its going to be raining offers...
no chance. the f16's are a political tool. you think the usa is gonna even allow it. sure it will secure some jobs but not alot, as the jets will be a made in india. now if you do buy them and it went through then uncle sam has about 30 years of influence over you as they control the parts and the maintenance not forgetting the critical components which need to be sent to the usa. it will be built via license just like the mki's.
 
Reading the above post by Randomradio, if India indeed has extra slot of 150-200 aircrafts, is there any possibility of F-16s. It's not necessary for IAF to field all its inventory against PAF. Americans have made it clear that to F-16 tech gets to the Chinese hands. May be IAF can use F-16s against PLAAF? Is there a possibility?

IAF cannot buy only Rafales, too expensive. That's why the remaining requirement for medium weight aircraft will be serviced by another cheaper aircraft. The F-16 and Gripen are the cheapest western jets. So either one can win.

no chance. the f16's are a political tool. you think the usa is gonna even allow it. sure it will secure some jobs but not alot, as the jets will be a made in india. now if you do buy them and it went through then uncle sam has about 30 years of influence over you as they control the parts and the maintenance not forgetting the critical components which need to be sent to the usa. it will be built via license just like the mki's.

The Americans plan to move their entire production line to India, both Boeing and LM will do that. In case the F-16s are made in India, even foreign countries will have to buy it from India if they want more.

That's why that little joke about selling PAF the F-16s.
 
no chance. the f16's are a political tool. you think the usa is gonna even allow it. sure it will secure some jobs but not alot, as the jets will be a made in india. now if you do buy them and it went through then uncle sam has about 30 years of influence over you as they control the parts and the maintenance not forgetting the critical components which need to be sent to the usa. it will be built via license just like the mki's.
I agree with you.. 100%..

Sadly, what i dont know is the confidence level on our homegrown Tejas program.. Which may tilt GOI to accept some other bird if the execution level is poor for production and meeting timelines..

In guise of needing fighters quickly we may see a new line .. not saying it will be 16s.. it can be Gripen also or LSA.. Sadly, it would be failure of ourselves that we could not capitalize on what is a 100% home market monopoly for light category with our inability to meet expectations in a time bound manner...

IMHO i would still give Tejas a long rope and i hope MOD does not give 16s/18s or even Gripen a chance at all.. But wishes of mine is not above our national interest...
 

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