De-hyphenating India-Pakistan!!

[utraash]

I would suggest a sensible leader for India. Then again my views. some positive developments in Congress time, mostly because they didn't apply this so called 'aggressive attitude', Modi ji has taken against Pakistan. In return, this is hurting them. Note: back when congress was in govt, not as usual firing at borders or LOC, not as usual intense moments between the two countries. It's quite clear that Indian leadership has taken a very negative stance on Pakistan and it is not going the way they expected it to go. Modi needs to re-think his strategy and continue talks with Pakistan.
My views

Most of Indians even don't endorse the khoongressi policy on Kashmir... Modi is doing what is expected from him n btw he is just adding few teeths in dealing with Pakistan.... One side Pakistan want talks other side it will continue to harbour good terrorist .... Mark my words once the region is terrorism free we two nation can resolve any issue of universe ...... But at present chances of any reconciliation on both side is bleak....

 

[FaujHistorian]

Sigh....

Modi is not trying to anti-Pakistan.. He just showing that he is not Congress.
And how and why do you think the border firings start anyways ? Congress tells the BSF not to and the NDA govt. tells them to shoot ?
There are no negative or positive stances, at bureaucratic level, things have not moved a single inch since the terrorist attack on Mumbai.

Modi is trying to behave with Pakistan the way he behaved with Muslims in Gujarat. Poor thing doesn't know the diff between killing his own people verses barking against another nation.

What he is doing is the sign of a weakling and not a strong leader. Why I say this..

Because he is being pushed around like a 8 year old girl by the big name baboos. I used to think that selecting politicians from poor background is a good thing.

But the more I see Modi's behavior the more I realize that family politicians have strength and family connections that allows them to behave calmly and in a calculated and measured way.

Mumbai incident was one of the most horrible thing to happen. But the way to avoid such incidents is to work with Pakistani gov and not the other way around.

Long term stability comes from sane and diplomatic policies and not by becoming Kim Ill Jung of Bharat.


peace

Most of Indians even don't endorse the khoongressi policy on Kashmir... Modi is doing what is expected from him n btw he is just adding few teeths in dealing with Pakistan.... One side Pakistan want talks other side it will continue to harbour good terrorist .... Mark my words once the region is terrorism free we two nation can resolve any issue of universe ...... But at present chances of any reconciliation on both side is bleak....

Funny that you have a brains to come to a Pakistani forum and $hit around using words like terrorism against us as if the whole country is launching attacks in Kashmir.

Please learn to behave when you are in someone else house even virtually speaking.

Thank you

Taunting me?? Are you??

Never! Levina Ji, Never!

Sorry I don't remember the last time India-Pak trade was brought down to zero paisa.

Obviously you don't have your personal horse in the race, hence being the advocate of zero participation.

Ask those who actually export to Pakistan a bit more than "zero paisa". ;-)

 

[SipahSalar]

Kashmir is (not) an issue: The UNSC resolution which gets talked about on international forums, and that which asks Paksitan to vacate Kashmir, and India to conduct plebiscite, is not an obligation. The two countries should accept the status quo and move on. Let's accept LOC as IB.

And you conveniently sneaked in that statement. Calling the only issue between Pakistan and India as not an issue...

 

[Bang Galore]

Mumbai incident was one of the most horrible thing to happen. But the way to avoid such incidents is to work with Pakistani gov and not the other way around.

Unfortunately, there are almost no takers in india for the argument that the Pakistani state would be of any help on this matter. The Indian government (and mind you this is the previous government, not the Modi hate figure that you keep bringing up) believed with some sense of certainty, especially after the Abu Jundal extradition, that the Pakistani state was hand in glove in the 26/11 incident.

One may need to work with Pakistan like you suggest but sometimes a party might need a nudge, a push or a kick to bring it around to the table. I'm sure Pakistanis might believe that an attack like 26/11 might just be that kind of event but surely that game can be played by two.

 

[nForce]

Modi is trying to behave with Pakistan the way he behaved with Muslims in Gujarat. Poor thing doesn't know the diff between killing his own people verses barking against another nation.

What he is doing is the sign of a weakling and not a strong leader. Why I say this..

Because he is being pushed around like a 8 year old girl by the big name baboos. I used to think that selecting politicians from poor background is a good thing.

But the more I see Modi's behavior the more I realize that family politicians have strength and family connections that allows them to behave calmly and in a calculated and measured way.

Mumbai incident was one of the most horrible thing to happen. But the way to avoid such incidents is to work with Pakistani gov and not the other way around.

Long term stability comes from sane and diplomatic policies and not by becoming Kim Ill Jung of Bharat.

I will get back to you on other points later. Can you explain the bold part first ? What exactly was that ? Why it is necessary to work with Pakistani govt. to avoid incidents like Mumbai ?

 

[gau8av]

the so called line of control absolutely must be made an international border, there is no other solution

I know the Pakistanis view such an outcome as complete capitulation and defeat but they must realize this will be a bitter pill for both sides to swallow, the Indians are just a bit more pragmatic about it.

If they ever manage it, I would support the idea of soft borders, provided there are proper verifiable checks and balances in place.. and that means no jihad !

apart from that, I guess we're all used to the random border skirmishes and low intensity insurgency in Kashmir.. chalta hai, sometimes their guys die, sometimes our guys die.. sad, but ok, what can you do.. as long as nobody goes nuclear

 

[Levina]

Engage Civilian government and Army/ISI differently.

In a country where the civilian govt lives under the shadow of army, it is difficult to treat 'em both differently.

Hehe.. why not ?

Deep down, you know that's the only way it is going to come down to, no matter how much we try to wrap it within folds of civility.
Pakistani army will not allow it's civilian govt. to go for any solution that divides Kashmir, go into some kind of deal, for such a deal destroys it's image among it's people. That's very important for Pakistani army, because it is the institution that holds Pakistan together and safe-guards the ideology behind creation of the country, which is separate land for Islam. Kashmir is the core issue for them and it is seen as a struggle for Muslims of Kashmir. If Pakistani army fails in doing that in it's home turf, then it looses all it's credibility.

In case of India, no political party will commit the greatest political suicide of the century in front of 1.2 billion people, a fifth of the World, by handing over Kashmir on a platter to the Pakistanis. If any party does so, then they might as well commit suicides for real with all their party and family members, just to escape what might follow later.

So, you see.....that's the reality...looking the other way will not change anything.

EDIT :

We may give it a try, keep trying, give peace not just a chance but multiple chances, but I'm not very hopeful about this.

I did not say that Kashmir should be given to Pakistan for gratis. I had said that LOC should be turned into IB, whether they and their army like it or not this is the only solution when it comes to Kashmir.

It is time for a self introspection before blaming Pakistan for a while;

where did you see me blaiming Pakistan in my OP??

We already tried enough to de-hyphenate ourselves from Pakistan but could not despite being a larger economy and military force for our own folly and meekness for the last seventy years.

when and how did we try to dehyphenate???

 

[ranjeet]

In a country where the civilian govt lives under the shadow of army, it is difficult to treat 'em both differently.

We need to stretch that tension as much as we can. Nawaz Sharif is willing to take risk and we must take the initiative.

 

[Levina]

Never! Levina Ji, Never!

My username is Levina, you can call me either that or nothing at all.

Obviously you don't have your personal horse in the race, hence being the advocate of zero participation.

So since you're advocating trade relations between the 2 countries should I assume you have a lot to loose if the trades are halted??

Ask those who actually export to Pakistan a bit more than "zero paisa". ;-)

Survival of the fittest!!!
Those who can not change themselves with the changing conditions would be an extinct species.....I am talking about the businessmen some of whom might not support the idea of zero trade relations with Pakistan.
IMO, $3billion is the amount we are talking about. I'm sure business men who trade with Pakistan face a lot of hurdles in exporting their stuff through Dubai. Contrary to what you believe they might readily accept my idea.

We need to stretch that tension as much as we can. Nawaz Sharif is willing to take risk and we must take the initiative.

When was the last time Nawaz Sharif was taken seriously by Pakistan???
I appreciate his efforts to normalise India-Pak relations but it's high time Indian govt realised that NS hardly has any say in this matter.

 

[Imran Khan]

peace is the only way for india pakistan to move ahead as long as we stuck in this mentality of 1947 we will lose .

 

[VCheng]

In a country where the civilian govt lives under the shadow of army, it is difficult to treat 'em both differently.

Here is an excerpt from an older post on this general topic that you may find interesting:

Mutual Blackmail: Economic Treaty Organization Between Afghanistan, Pakistan and India

So what to do next? Much has already been said about the Indo-Pak rivalry and history, and how it affects the present conflict as well, but it is high time for a bold idea that takes it into account, and lays the basis for achieving US goals as well, based on the idea that "friendship is merely mutual blackmail elevated to a higher level". The US should create and fund an Economic Treaty Organization between Afghanistan, Pakistan and India that will create all the elements of mutual blackmail by tying together long term economic interests of all the parties involved, thus in time elevating it to the higher level of friendship, as already stated above. The return on investment of such a plan is going to be far higher than cleaning up the mess afterwards, and anything less would fail to the detriment of all. After having exhausted all other possibilities, it is high time the Americans did the right thing. Countless millions are counting on it.

 

[gau8av]

We need to stretch that tension as much as we can. Nawaz Sharif is willing to take risk and we must take the initiative.

and what happens when it snaps ?

 

[ranjeet]

When was the last time Nawaz Sharif was taken seriously by Pakistan???
I appreciate his efforts to normalise India-Pak relations but it's high time Indian govt realised that NS hardly has any say in this matter.

Nawaz Sharif might not be taken seriously in Pakistan but as a head of the state he is useful pawn for India to be exploited in the international forum. He is willing to be the sacrificial lamb in this tussle between GoI and the Pakistani deep state and India must not let this opportunity slip away.

 

[gau8av]

peace is the only way for india pakistan to move ahead as long as we stuck in this mentality of 1947 we will lose .

"we" matlab Pakistan or both ?

both are correct answers but I think the cost is a bit higher for you.

 

[ranjeet]

and what happens when it snaps ?

We saw how political stand off between Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif went on for weeks and what it brought to Pakistan. Political instability is a far more powerful weapon if used wisely.