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Dispute with Israel underscores limits of U.S. power, a shifting alliance

There was a time when most of the world either wanted to be either like America or with America, then the Americans started asking the question, "Why do they hate us"?.
It now seems that the Americans may have found some of their answers and seem keen to address them.
 
more Drama thats all
My thoughts too...

Great going obama...
Be careful, he also pointed to attack inside Pak territory & he said in Berlin speech that Pakistanis can carry out nucke attack in US/Europe... Probably alluding to next False-Flag they have on mind...

i pray he doesnt meet the fate of john f. kennedy.
He won't, coz he's nowhere like J.F.Kennedy.

Availing oppertunity to shove in some relavant "conspiracy theory"...
 
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about him threatening to send troops inside pakistan made some sense if you look through american point of view.

well i dont go by much of these videos. according to few of them, Queen symbol is also a cult.

we need to learn to appreciate those who take the right step. if today he is speaking up, at least we should back him or else tomorrow no one will give a ****.
 
US is still a great country and Israel can exist with US support only. If a day came where US stopped the spares to Israeli Air Force, then Nethanyahu will be eating the Obama's coocke meat sandwich.
 
So good to finally to see steps in the right direction. I cant believe they have gotten away with so much for so long. Im gona pull up a chair with a bag of popcorn and watch this with interest. I cant see Nethanyahu backing down and I dont really know how much the lobbyists will affect the Prez.
Maybe one of the Yanks on this forum could answer that please.
How strong is the pro-Israel lobby in the US? And how much attention would Obama pay to it?
 
Maybe one of the Yanks on this forum could answer that please. How strong is the pro-Israel lobby in the US? And how much attention would Obama pay to it?

The pro-Israel Lobby is incredibly strong. Probably the strongest single issue lobby in American politics (save, perhaps, the gun rights lobby, the National Rifle Association, NRA). Jewish Americans only make up 2% of the US population but there are currently 15 Jewish Senators (15%) and, currently, 33 Jewish Members of the House (8%). Hollywood Jewish Americans (think Barbara Streisand) are very, very influential with Democrats; if not with Obama personally, then with countless other Democrat elected officials, like Nancy Pelosi and all the other California politicians. Jewish American journalists (think Wolf Blitzer) and media owners are way, way out of proportion to the 2% figure. In academia and on Wall Street, Jewish American participation at the upper levels is also 3 or 4 times their population %. So, all this adds up to a lot of clout when they choose to focus on a single issue for their political chits, like supporting Israel. No American politician has bucked this Lobby in any significant way since the 1967 War.

That is the fact of life. The only way to change this is for the Palestinians to successfully develop a "worse victim" narrative by mounting a non-violent civil rights movement that captures, in American and European eyes, the moral high ground from the Israelis.
 
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USA is currently the only superpower in the world and capable of things no other country can achieve. If so many jews are a part of the social and civil fabric of the society then they must have a very big hand in making US what it is today. I think this is the reason why they are so well represented but I think they could also be the country undoing.

If I was President of USA, I would overthrow netanyahooooo, install a secular peave loving israeli who gives palestine its state and then all things will become rosy again.

That reminds me, Pakistan has 15 jews in the government too.
 
Exactly, either the President of US of A does something wrong or does something right that we actually derive our foreign policy from.

But, this guy seems to me utterly useless. Just my personal opinion.
Yes we can has become a retards punchline now.

I would disagree. Obama has made a significant impact just by getting the health bill through. This was an impossibility a month ago but it has happened. The US is conducting operations in Afghanistan under a much more thought out approach than the past and its yielding results.

In ME, Israel requires some tough love. It never hurts to tell the Israelis the truth which is their right is leading them to a roadblock. Israelis will never have peace for as long as they keep on pushing on issues over which they have no international support.

Obama's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan are both bearing fruit. Much more thought out than Dubbya's shoot first ask questions later approach.

The difference now is that the US administration is looking at the interests of the US in ME much more than simply letting Israel drive the US policy in ME. This is not going down too well with AIPAC and the Israel supporters. In the end, interests of the US have to be placed ahead of those of Israel.

There is and will always be support for Israel in the US, however its a hard sell when things are becoming difficult for the US to attain her Foreign policy goals.
 
I would disagree. Obama has made a significant impact just by getting the health bill through. This was an impossibility a month ago but it has happened. The US is conducting operations in Afghanistan under a much more thought out approach than the past and its yielding results.

In ME, Israel requires some tough love. It never hurts to tell the Israelis the truth which is their right is leading them to a roadblock. Israelis will never have peace for as long as they keep on pushing on issues over which they have no international support.

Obama's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan are both bearing fruit. Much more thought out than Dubbya's shoot first ask questions later approach.

The difference now is that the US administration is looking at the interests of the US in ME much more than simply letting Israel drive the US policy in ME. This is not going down too well with AIPAC and the Israel supporters. In the end, interests of the US have to be placed ahead of those of Israel.

There is and will always be support for Israel in the US, however its a hard sell when things are becoming difficult for the US to attain her Foreign policy goals.

I agree with you on this, more so on the Healthcare thing. But as I said before, those were my personal opinions and I still hold them valid.

(This is offtopic but imagine a guy, fresh into office and getting the Nobel Peace Prize. I know we are to blame the guys who voted for Obama for the Nobel prize. But as the President of the US of A, he should have declined it rightaway. It hardly matters now when he has donated that money to charity. The cause is gone)
 
After Biden... Can Israel Survive Without America?

Benjamin Joffe-Walt, Thursday, March 25, 2010

For over 40 years every Israeli prime minister and American president has devoted extensive, repetitive rhetoric to the deep diplomatic, economic, military and diplomatic relationship between the US and Israel.

Israel has received well over $100 billion in assistance from the US since its creation, today receiving over $2.5 billion in annual military aid, most of which is used to purchase military equipment from more than 1,000 companies in 47 US states. The two nations have extensive strategic partnerships, the US funds the research and development of various Israeli weapons systems and there is a special hotline between the Pentagon and the Israeli Ministry of Defense.

The US has provided expansive diplomatic cover for Israel throughout the years, and in return Israel is consistently at or near the top of those countries voting most often with the US at the United Nations.

Many US colleges have student and faculty exchange programs with Israeli universities and several have joint degree programs. From NASA to the US Forest Service, almost every US government agency has a signed cooperation agreement with their Israeli counterpart.

The two countries have engaged in hundreds of joint high-tech research and development projects, set up hundreds of scientific exchanges between research institutions and shared in the development of various agricultural and environmental technologies. Israel even cooperates with the US on the formation of its macroeconomic policy.

But things have gone awry as of late.

Whether by coordinated intent or a lack of internal communication, earlier this month the Israelis announced the approval of 1600 new homes in Palestinian east Jerusalem as US Vice President Joe Biden arrived for a visit. This 'slap in the face', described by the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a number of senior Obama administration officials as an "insult", has snowballed into what is being described as the most significant 'crisis' in US-Israel relations in decades.

But the diplomatic spat follows a much larger trend, in which the United States' political, military and academic elite have started to seriously question the nature, if not the premise, of their country's relationship with Israel.

On the Israeli side, however, there are very few voices questioning the Jewish state's relationship with the US.

Israel's leading daily Yedioth Ahronot found that 68 percent of Israelis do not believe that Israel can "exist securely without the support of the US",
coupling the poll with an accompanying series of reports on the damage a deterioration in US-Israel relations would do to the country's economy, defenses and foreign relations.

Dr Ephraim Inbar, Director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at Bar Ilan University in Israel, said Israel has no choice but to remain loyal to the US-Israel partnership.

"Israel lives in a tough neighborhood," he told The Media Line. "We are a small country with the security problems of a superpower, and it has been clear to all Israeli prime ministers that we need the support of America and as a result they try to minimize friction with the US as much as possible.”

"We have been in worse positions in the past," Dr Inbar said. "For example in the 1970s when there was an oil crisis and the world was much more anti-Israel than it is today - we've weathered this situation before so I believe we can weather it again today. America is a democracy and understands that Israel is a democracy and that democracies make mistakes."

But Avraham Burg, former speaker of the Israeli parliament and former chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel, argued that the threat to friendly US-Israel relations speaks to a core fear in the Israeli psyche.

"The Israeli psyche is brought up on a 2000-year-old consciousness, amplified by the 60 years since the creation of the state, that the entire world is against us," he told The Media Line. “Psychologically, we cannot believe that we are going to lose the only friend we have left on earth, so the reality is we are psychologically in denial."

"But now Israel's foreign relations are very dicey, and they are starting to confront the reality that this may not be true," Scheindlin said. "They can't just change their communications or improve their diplomacy and everything will be OK. They may have to actually change Israeli policy to improve their image and foreign relations. But polling shows that only a minority of Israelis support changing policy in favor of foreign relations."

Bernard Avishai, an Israeli-American political economist and author of The Tragedy of Zionism and The Hebrew Republic, agreed that the status quo is unsustainable.

"Nobody's questioning whether or not Israel should have a relationship with America. This relationship is much too deep and too wide and has too much precedent for it to ever really be at risk,” he told The Media Line. "But now there is a really different scenario for American foreign policy, which is about engagement, global cooperation, arms reduction and mutual strategic interests."

"Yet for 25 years the Israeli right, with Netanyahu as their poster child, have believed that in the final analysis America will always see Israel as a strategic asset in some kind of Machiavellian fight against the evils of the world, be it the cold war or now radical Islam, as if in the end America will always see Israel as its power forward - maybe the power forward takes cocaine and gets in trouble with women, but you can always count on him to get 25 points a game,” Avishai said. “This whole way of thinking is very anachronistic and a far cry from the evolving reality which Obama represents, in which the old narrative is being superseded by a more realist school of thinking."

"So Netanyahu is facing a kind of debacle in Israel's relations with Western countries which is going to be as embarrassing to him as the Intifada was to [former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud] Barak," he continued. "You can't have an economy like Singapore and a nationalities policy like Serbia. People won't accept it and Netanyahu and the more rational parts of the Israeli right understand that political isolation will lead to economic isolation."

"So it's not just the money or the smart bombs or the aircraft that Israel gets from America," Avishai said. "Much more important is that we export $60 billion worth of stuff every year. That's $60 billion of relationships with developed world companies. If Israel starts to become the sort of spoiled brat of the West, where all kinds of Western companies start to distance themselves from Israeli companies because it's too embarrassing or too much trouble for them, we could have an economic implosion here."

The Media Line
 
Reuters and BBC are reporting that Israeli tanks are moving into GAZA (breaking news). This is Israeli's strategic move after B.B. Netanyahu was given a very cold "welcome" in Washington. On his return, they now want to create war hysteria so that it becomes difficult for anyone to mediate and start the peace process. They will buy more and more time with moves like these and pass the time of Obama presidency. I think we will very soon see the air attacks on GAZA and other Palestinian areas which will kill innocent people and as a result the Palestinians will retaliate. As soon as there is any retaliation the Israel will say "how can we have a peace process when they are trying to kill us, we don't a peace partner".
 
Inside the Netanyahu bubble

Gidi Kleiman, a producer with the BBC Middle East bureau in Jerusalem, was part of the press team accompanying Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on his visit to Washington. This is his account of the unusually tense and difficult trip.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seemed relaxed, in his informal clothes, as he worked his way down the aisle of the plane, chatting with the travelling press.
The greeting ritual is customary during these flights, on which we accompany the prime minister on his all-important visits to Washington.
But it's never quite clear when he's going to drop by the press section, which poses a tricky question: do we stay in our business attire or risk having to greet Israel's leader in the T-shirts and tracksuit bottoms we've brought to sleep in on the 13-hour flight?
The US-Israel relationship is special. But the plane isn't. Mr Netanyahu's office charters a regular commercial plane. His team are in business class; the journalists in economy. The food choice - as on many Israel-US flights - is chicken or beef.
Row in the background
As the prime minister and his wife Sara left the press cabin, the plane's screens were showing the evening news - transmitted several hours earlier - on which US Middle East envoy George Mitchell confirmed that Mr Netanyahu would meet US President Barack Obama during his visit.

Mr Netanyahu was travelling to the US capital to address the annual conference of the powerful pro-Israeli lobby group American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac).
But, with a recent row over settlement building in East Jerusalem in the background, there had been questions over whether he would get to meet Mr Obama and whether Mr Obama was going to give him a hard time.
We touched down in Washington on Monday morning. Mr Netanyahu spent the day meeting with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, preparing his speech for Aipac, and later having dinner with US Vice-President Joe Biden.
After the meeting with Mrs Clinton, Mr Netanyahu and his staff were in buoyant mood. The jokes and banter flowed.
Enormous wedding party
Then on to Aipac. The conference looked like an enormous wedding party, with large dinner tables set for some 7,500 guests and delegates in a hall stretching hundreds of metres.
Mr Netanyahu was due to speak at 2130, but was late from dinner with Mr Biden, the man Israel had, in the US's own words, "insulted" only a week ago by announcing the approval of settler homes in East Jerusalem as Mr Biden visited to try to launch indirect peace talks.
It was just as well. Many of the guests had not got into the hall either, stuck in huge queues as congressmen and dignitaries struggled to make it through the security checks and metal detectors.
Inside, in the youth section, exhausted teenagers and students held their heads in the hands, trying to stay awake, as the announcers read out a long list of eminent conference attendees, filling the time until Mr Netanyahu arrived.
When he was called onstage, the crowd lit up. The sympathetic audience listened carefully to his speech, applauded and embraced him.
But it was the end of the easy part of the visit. The meeting with Mr Obama the following day was a different story.
Waiting
It began at 1730, shortly after the news had emerged of the granting of permits for another controversial building project in East Jerusalem.
We waited at the hotel for indications of how the meeting had gone. The signs were ominous for Mr Netanyahu - only official photographers, no public handshake or remarks in the presence of the press.
Sometime after 1900 it emerged that the meeting was over. A senior Israeli official told me there would be time for a drink in the bar before a statement came.
There turned out to be enough time, had we wanted it, for a tour of Washington's bars. And still no statement came from the White House or the Netanyahu staff.
Later, we heard that there a second meeting between the president and the prime minister.
Netanyahu's advisers stayed in the White House long past midnight in attempts to reach a joint statement with the Americans. Still nothing.
At odds
The following morning, all media engagements for Netanyahu were cancelled.
His staff wouldn't say a word, but it was written all over their faces that things were not good for the prime minister.
A group of senior Obama administration officials, headed by US Middle East envoy George Mitchell, arrived at the hotel to meet Mr Netanyahu and his advisers. But after hours more waiting, it emerged that no agreement had been reached and Mr Netanyahu would leave Washington DC at odds with the Americans.
In the hotel lobby, a group of Mr Netanyahu's staff walked past, returning from dinner. They looked completely exhausted. Only one of them mustered a smile.
We were whisked back to the waiting plane with the prime minister's motorcade. But as we stowed our bags in the overhead lockers, there was a flurry of activity.
An adviser rushed up the stairs, and shouted out a statement Mr Netanyahu had just given on the airport tarmac.
"We're finding the golden path," the prime minister had said, "we've moved forward."
After take-off the physical and mental exhaustion of the past few days caught up. It was eyes shut for everyone.
Most of us will do this all again in early April when Mr Netanyahu is due to attend the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington DC.
The questions remains: will there be a meeting with the president? And will Mr Netanyahu have to go through the same ordeal again?

BBC News - Inside the Netanyahu bubble
 

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