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GST and False Propaganda.

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Yup.

And the worst part is that, if and when Pakistan goes off the fiscal cliff, the rich thieves will already have shifted their money into foreign currencies abroad. The people left holding the bag will be the masses.

It will not be any cliff that we will fall off of, but rather a slow and undignified sinking into a putrid swamp made up of our own incompetence and corruption. Those with the means to keep their heads above it all will move elsewhere, eventually, or accept a decline in their standards of living. Oh wait, that is happening already, isn't it?
 
So according to my N-Leaguers, Pakistan is probably the only country in the world where GST doesn't cause inflation.. How cute.. :rofl:
 
Simple. You tax the associated inputs necessary to produce, transport and sell these items, but not the items themselves.

and how will you bring them in the tax net in the first place when they too are dealing in cash?
 
and how will you bring them in the tax net in the first place when they too are dealing in cash?

You are correct that large sectors of the economy will remain underground by doing undocumented business in cash only, but there are choke points in the supply of economic inputs that can be used.

Energy in all its forms is a prime example. Immovable assets are another. Movement of goods and services is another example.
 
You are correct that large sectors of the economy will remain underground by doing undocumented business in cash only, but there are choke points in the supply of economic inputs that can be used.

Energy in all its forms is a prime example. Immovable assets are another. Movement of goods and services is another example.

hence raise prices of petrol/gas :lol:

p.s.

we need to do something better to get the the untaxed, taxed, rather than to burden the consumers !!
 
You guys are opposing just for sake of opposition. How will you boost govt revenue and reduce deficit. And you cant expect the miracle of adding more people to tax net, it will take time.

Who says the opposition is to TAX people? The opposition that you're not taxing ALL the people. Income tax is levied on only the salaried class in Pakistan since their income tax is cut at the bank when income is credited into their account. This includes people who work for big companies or government departments...

The rest of the people pay squat. The very rich who earn through acres of farm land or through businesses don't pay anything since they have to declare their income and then pay. They lie on their income declaration and nobody does anything. Since the salaried class can't lie, in fact they don't have a chance to not pay, they are already heavily taxed.

Now comes GST - also levied on them. Salaried class is paying income tax AND GST. The very rich are paying just GST.

People are in uproar over the announcement to increase taxes since the issue of Pakistan's low revenue generation was never that we need more types of taxes, we need more people in the tax net.
 
hence raise prices of petrol/gas :lol:

p.s.

we need to do something better to get the the untaxed, taxed, rather than to burden the consumers !!

I agree we need a better system. But right now, those who make the rules ensure that they themselves remain untaxed while the people are burdened more and more. If there is any solace, it is only that we are running out of time to fix things before they run out of control.
 
we need to do something better to get the the untaxed, taxed, rather than to burden the consumers !!

You can't expect that until someone takes a bold step.

When the previous government tried to raise the tax on retail sector, they started their strikes and shutter downs...agri does the same, so does Real Estate. And do you think that the very owners of agri lands and real estate will do something like that?

When they try to raise real estate tax, Malik Riaz will be on to them in a flash.

We even give subsidy to Sugar Mills for God's sake!!!

Now comes GST - also levied on them. Salaried class is paying income tax AND GST. The very rich are paying just GST.

Second thing is that GST affects only the poor and middle class guy, not the rich. The increase in prices of fruits and vegetables, chicken, meat, pepsi, milk etc won't affect the rich at all...but a middle income guy with a salary of 70k will be affected by that.

So this has a double effect.

the issue of Pakistan's low revenue generation was never that we need more types of taxes, we need more people in the tax net.

This sums up the whole discussion.

Property tax, is also unfair for those who have aquired property from their ancestors and property price increases due to speculation, but they dont have enough income. Or old retired people.

A guy buys a property for 30 lac, sells it for 1 crore 30 lac after a couple of years, he goes home with a hefty 1 crore profit, without paying a single rupee in tax. THat is the blatant robbery we are talking about.
 
You can't expect that until someone takes a bold step.

When the previous government tried to raise the tax on retail sector, they started their strikes and shutter downs...agri does the same, so does Real Estate. And do you think that the very owners of agri lands and real estate will do something like that?

When they try to raise real estate tax, Malik Riaz will be on to them in a flash.

We even give subsidy to Sugar Mills for God's sake!!!



Second thing is that GST affects only the poor and middle class guy, not the rich. The increase in prices of fruits and vegetables, chicken, meat, pepsi, milk etc won't affect the rich at all...but a middle income guy with a salary of 70k will be affected by that.

So this has a double effect.



This sums up the whole discussion.



A guy buys a property for 30 lac, sells it for 1 crore 30 lac after a couple of years, he goes home with a hefty 1 crore profit, without paying a single rupee in tax. THat is the blatant robbery we are talking about.

I agree we need a better system. But right now, those who make the rules ensure that they themselves remain untaxed while the people are burdened more and more. If there is any solace, it is only that we are running out of time to fix things before they run out of control.

A tax regime made by top officials for themselves


A tax regime made by top officials for themselves | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

Since the announcement of the federal budget for 2013-14, the salaried class finds itself in a state of shock — and for understandable reasons.

There are about 1.6 million salaried people who pay income tax — an abysmal figure in any case for a country with a population of over 180 million — and an overwhelming majority of them are going to take a direct hit as a result of the measures proposed (as opposed to the 3,500 salaried people claimed by the government).

If this were not bad enough, many view with suspicion the substantial decrease of the tax burden on those who fall in the middle of the tax slabs, which benefits, for example, top civil servants and other senior government functionaries. Have those who work out the details in the corridors of power found a way to give relief to themselves, some wonder.

Even beyond salaried persons, the general feeling is that the new taxation measures punish honest taxpayers by increasing the burden on them, reward tax evaders by not broadening the tax net and let free-loaders get away with not sharing the responsibility of sustaining the system.

In his budget speech last week, Finance Minister Ishaq Dar proposed the revision of income tax rates for salaried individuals and an increase in the existing tax slabs from six to 12 in the Finance Bill 2013. The exemption limit was, however, raised from Rs350,000 per annum to Rs400,000.

The envisaged measures will alter the current balance of tax incidence on different categories of salaried earners. The announcement implied that the Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) would be entrusted with more powers, including access to information on private bank-account holders.

“The proposed taxation measures perpetuate the regressive character of the taxation regime in Pakistan,” a senior executive commented in private. “The FBR, an institution known to be infested with inefficiency and corruption, has been entrusted with more powers that we fear will be abused to harass lawful citizens operating in the formal economy.”

Information gathered by Dawn indicates that in many cities, members of the executive class are pooling their resources and interacting with lawyers and accounting firms to carve out a collective response to what they consider a blatant violation of their right to be treated equitably with respect to sharing the tax burden.

“Instead of increasing the tax base, the Finance Bill has further increased the burden on the captive salaried taxpayers who contribute 11.3 per cent of the total withholding tax collected against 8.4pc on bank interest, 5.7pc on exports and 4.6pc on dividends,” said a senior executive of a private bank in a comment emailed to Dawn.

The tax liabilities of salaried persons are deducted at source. “We can neither hide our actual earnings as do businessmen, traders, landlords or professionals working privately, nor — like them — can we shift the impact of burden to others by increasing the prices of goods or services,” said an accountant who works for a law firm.

“Can someone explain how the fabulous earnings of the landed aristocracy, builders, businessmen, brokers, property tycoons and money-minting retailers are worth any less than the fixed pay-cheque I receive at the end of the month?” fumed a young professional who works for a multinational.

The small team of lawyers and accountants were consulted in an extensive exercise to assess the incidence of income tax under the new scheme and monitor the direction of the variations.

The findings are reproduced in the accompanying chart.

The exercise exposed several anomalies in the proposed tax regime. If implemented, the new taxation regime will hurt people earning Rs60,000 per month the most — even more than those who draw their monthly salaries in millions. The incidence of tax on a junior level employee earning Rs60,000 a month will be 34pc more than before, against 30pc on those earning Rs1.2 million and above.

For people earning between Rs175,000 and Rs400,000, the tax liability has actually fallen. Most senior bureaucrats, judges and generals fall in this band, leaving some wondering about accidents and others about creative thinking.

Meanwhile, about a million income tax payers, mostly from lower- and upper-most salaried class, will shoulder the brunt of the proposed measures.

Reports have been circulating for the past two years that the government has the details of three million tax-dodgers. Why the resource-starved government did not bring them into the net or force them to clear their liabilities was not clarified by the new economic team.

“We are watching closely the Supreme Court’s stance on sales tax to decide our future course of action,” a civil society activist coordinating between different groups of disenchanted salaried taxpayers told Dawn from Lahore.

“We are hoping to open a dialogue with the government’s economic team to rationalise the tax regime,” a senior analyst said. “In its current form, it violates not just the PML-N manifesto but also the Constitution of Pakistan that makes discrimination impermissible.”

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this is how the middle class is punished for being tax payer and pro-pakistan by these elitist party !!

yateem ishaq dar should remember those days when he havent had money to buy food, langar at data darbar was his and his mother's only food !
 
wow kiya dimag hain nooro kay... lagta hai kabhi in haramkhoro nay market say kuch kharida hi nahi !!

this is what makes them out of touch with the reality and what condition poor people and/or middle class is living through !

Mind your language first?
Kabhi milk, fruit, split pulses, eggs pe GST dia ha?
Agar dia ha to theek ha otherwise tu khud sab se bara kharamkhor ha.
 
A guy buys a property for 30 lac, sells it for 1 crore 30 lac after a couple of years, he goes home with a hefty 1 crore profit, without paying a single rupee in tax. THat is the blatant robbery we are talking about.

But there is still merit in Hinduguy's argument. I'd say levy these charges at the time of sale.

SOP should be that property can change deeds through a set procedure

1. Property should always be sold through an escrow account
2. Property must always be appraised at the time of sale
3. Property taxes must be settled at the time of sale.

If a person continues to hold a property and lives in it, then he's good, no need to tax him.
 
A guy buys a property for 30 lac, sells it for 1 crore 30 lac after a couple of years, he goes home with a hefty 1 crore profit, without paying a single rupee in tax. THat is the blatant robbery we are talking about.
I agree, if the holding is for short term (speculator, investor) he should be taxed on his income/profit generated. Profit from long term holding or inherited property should be spared, because such people will want to buy another property which is as expensive.
I thought by property tax you meant paying tax for just having property, this is capital gain tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax
 
I know indirect tax like this hits poor harder, but asking to suddenly widen tax net is not feasible. That should be the long term goal though.

Are you impying to increase tax rate btw.?
Property tax, is also unfair for those who have aquired property from their ancestors and property price increases due to speculation, but they dont have enough income. Or old retired people.

Bud whats the percentage of VAT in India.
 
An economist said very interesting thing about GST on Capital Tv. Opposition is doing propaganda that 1% increase will increase inflation and it will affect poor people but reality is opposite.

The basic necessities of 90% Pakistani's especially lower salaried class and poor have no tax at all.

Flour: No tax in-fact government providing subsidy on it.
Milk: No GST you can ask your milkman. :P
Vegetables: absolutely no tax.
Chicken: No
Split Pulses/Daals: No
Eggs: No
Cooking oil and Tea are also available in open but you won't die paying 5,6 Rs extra for quality product.

The price of these products may fluctuate with the factors of supply/demand and price of oil in international market. So bottom line is increase in GST will affect companies with big profits, elite and burger class, paid journalists, and leaders of few political parties who eat K&N's, drink tetra pack milk, and take bath with mineral water.
This government is not relying on printing of notes for day to day expenditures, they have cut down useless spending, tax net and revenue will be increased so gradually inflation will decrease.

BTW brother, just go out in market and check latest rate of chicken. It just went from 150 to 265 in mere 2 days time.. I think this is what you're trying to say, GST won't cause inflation as your govt has lots of other better ways to cause inflation, so may be you are right with GST.. :omghaha:
 
A guy buys a property for 30 lac, sells it for 1 crore 30 lac after a couple of years, he goes home with a hefty 1 crore profit, without paying a single rupee in tax. THat is the blatant robbery we are talking about.

Yes and you must appreciate Punjab Gov because we have introduced CGT this year and also tell your beloved IK to introduce it in KPK. PTI leadership is always one semester behind. :omghaha:

200 Billion is huge amount. :cheers:

Rs200b collection under CGT in Punjab.
June 19, 2013
He said that the newly-introduced capital gains tax will collect up to Rs200 billion while collection of Rs60.35 billion is estimated under GST on services.
Rs200b collection under CGT in Punjab
 

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