How to stop These UAV's From Attacking???

[qsaark]

"Something not very intelligent."Yup. Sure was dumb ending ......coverage terms.

Keep going, many have not seen this side of yours.

 

[S-2]

"Keep going, many have not seen this side of yours."

The side where I assert that we're a global hegemon in a uni-polar world without trying very hard but simply doing the right combination of actions at key points in our history and possessing of immense physical potential and human capital?

Self-evident. So?

It doesn't change Pakistan's functional aborgation of sovereignty within FATA since 2002 to a defeated foreign army. That singular fact renders the notion of silly lil' but terribly precise and deadly PREDATOR doing it's modest best to redress the horrifically savage attacks upon the afghan civilian population entirely valid.

Were it not the case then it would make sense not to conduct these attacks. As it IS the case, the legitimate alternatives could be far worse.

I implore the men of FATA to resist those who attack Afghanistan from their neighborhoods. I implore all those within physical sight of these men and possessing no means of defense to RUN as fast and far as possible until they're gone...and to do so again the next time seen. I implore the fathers and mothers of this region to not invite these men nor shelter them in your homes. Doing so abets and aids the militant actions and renders legitimate targets of yourselves. The children become the unwitting victims of choices made by their parents.

Pashtunistan is a sanctuary within a region once thought to be part of your nation and called FATA, qsaark. That's no longer certain. What IS certain is that this region harbors too many men bent upon reeking havoc on the afghan people and the UN mission.

I hope PREDATOR and REAPER continue until Pakistan reconquers this region and again makes it theirs. Attacks upon Afghanistan from this region will certainly continue until this is done. I'm no longer certain that the P.A. is capable of doing so. In fact, I'm very UNCERTAIN that it can.

Care to discuss UAVs?

 

[qsaark]

The side where I assert.........UNCERTAIN that it can

Its interesting. Lets see if other members agree with that.

Care to discuss UAVs?

Has already been discussed. This thread should perhaps be closed now.

 

[dabong1]

It doesn't change Pakistan's functional aborgation of sovereignty within FATA since 2002 to a defeated foreign army. That singular fact renders the notion of silly lil' but terribly precise and deadly PREDATOR doing it's modest best to redress the horrifically savage attacks upon the afghan civilian population entirely valid.:

You seem to ignore the 90% of the taliban that have never set foot on pakistani soil and who are operating freely in afghanistan.
I wonder many US militants got killed a the hands of people that have crossed over from FATA?

Were it not the case then it would make sense not to conduct these attacks. As it IS the case, the legitimate alternatives could be far worse..:

I implore the men of FATA to resist those who attack Afghanistan from their neighborhoods. I implore all those within physical sight of these men and possessing no means of defense to RUN as fast and far as possible until they're gone...and to do so again the next time seen. I implore the fathers and mothers of this region to not invite these men nor shelter them in your homes. Doing so abets and aids the militant actions and renders legitimate targets of yourselves. The children become the unwitting victims of choices made by their parents...:

Mullah Omar-AQ was saying the same thing....they "implore" the fathers and mothers of the US militants to run back to the safety of there own homeland.
By not doing so it makes there family members unwitting targets as they are aiding and abetting terrorists........there family members become "unwitting victims of choices made by their" sons and daughters.
It sounds like Mullah Omar and the AQ leadership are giving the same message your giving.
I think there trying to say the next time there is an attack on US intrests in the world the innocent US citizens that died have themselfs to blame.
The US and AQ have a twisted logic!

Pashtunistan is a sanctuary within a region once thought to be part of your nation and called FATA, qsaark. That's no longer certain. What IS certain is that this region harbors too many men bent upon reeking havoc on the afghan people and the UN mission.:

The only people "reeking havoc on the afghan people" is the occupation forces.

I hope PREDATOR and REAPER continue until Pakistan reconquers this region and again makes it theirs. Attacks upon Afghanistan from this region will certainly continue until this is done. I'm no longer certain that the P.A. is capable of doing so. In fact, I'm very UNCERTAIN that it can.:

In the long run the US will crawl back to its sewer and the afghans will be free.

Care to discuss UAVs?

they could shoot them out of the sky tommorow if we wanted.

 

[S-2]

"they could shoot them out of the sky tommorow if we wanted."

Thank you, my lil' chickenhawk irhabist. You make my point yet again.

You DON'T want, do you?

The rest of your spew doesn't merit a considered reply.

 

[muse]

A relatively under reported statistic is that in the last six months, some 11 of the Al-Qaida top 20 have been dispatched to hell by predator attacks.

Clearly there is much political mileage some Pakistani politicians can gain from the fact that missiles and bombs do infringe on notions of sovereignty that seem to favor neither the people of Pakistan nor those who ks by are seeking to deter attacks by terrorists.

Think more and feel less is advice wasted on some.

 

[Mercenary]

why do we want to stop these drones?

these drones alone have saved thousands of Pakistani lives by eliminating these terrorist animals

 

[notorious_eagle]

why do we want to stop these drones?

these drones alone have saved thousands of Pakistani lives by eliminating these terrorist animals

You have a point, these drones have killed a lot of those bastards but they have also killed innocent civilians.

 

[PAFAce]

why do we want to stop these drones?

these drones alone have saved thousands of Pakistani lives by eliminating these terrorist animals

There is a little thing called pride and sovereignty. A nation built by men of vision, there is blood and sweat in every street that you so carelessly walk through. Any self-respecting Pakistani, with a family that made sacrifices for the country, would never be happy with attacks on our soil.

Here's a simple analogy. Most analogies I use fail here, and maybe its my fault, but I doubt it considering the mental levels of my opponents. I'll try again. If my brother does something wrong, i will discipline him. I will not allow you to come to my house and beat the crap out of him, while at the same time you hit my sister and call it 'collateral damage'.

In all the time I've spent on this and other forums, I have learnt but one basic thing. It is impossible to change people's perception online, at least for me. So, you do not have to agree with me, just know that there are people who would sell the country for short term benefits and pleasure, and you are not much different for supporting these attacks, regardless of their outcome.

 

[TruthSeeker]

If my brother does something wrong, i will discipline him. I will not allow you to come to my house and beat the crap out of him, while at the same time you hit my sister and call it 'collateral damage'.

But in the case of the "miscreants" who are killing in Afghanistan and training terrorists to kill all over the world, either (1) you deny they are YOUR brothers, or (2) you DO NOT discipline them so that they stop. IF you took care of your brothers and their GUESTS, there would be no drone strikes and no sisters getting hit. It's not complicated. You aren't taking care of business and people outside of Pakistan are getting hurt because of it.

 

[S-2]

Agnostic Muslim is suggesting elsewhere that the Quetta shura, Hekmatyar, and Haqqani have all been retained as Pakistan's fall-back to a pre-emptive departure by America.

Maybe, just MAYBE five years ago. After seven plus years in Afghanistan though, our commitment is demonstrated. So too Pakistani malfeasance. A defeated foreign army is sheltered by a nation who cries afoul of their sovereign "rights" without regard to their sovereign "responsibilities", long neglected.

This is now a straight transactional exchange with armed guards on both sides of the table-nothing more. There's no semblance of "ally" here in Pakistan's actions. They're diametrically opposed to the U.N.'s mission to stabilize Afghanistan.

More and more I'm beginning to understand why our troops haven't began deployment and why B.O.'s reassessment will run into April.

We've a MAJOR re-think in the works, I suspect.

 

[muse]

Notorious and PAFace


You are exactly correct that innocents are and have been killed in Predator/Reaper attacks. Bombs and and missiles do not do surgical anything other than make a mess - that's by design. Imagine that Pakistani intelligence was sufficiently efficient that the AQ/Talib leadership could be targetted individually, wouldn't that be great? However; our intelligence services are not sufficiently efficient and daily reports indicate that AQ/Talib kill persons whom they suspect- these are also "innocent" and deserve your consideration.

You refer to sovereignty as a little issue and it is. After all, if it was a big issue why would GoP tolerate that Arabs, Afghans, Uzbeks, Chechens and Algerians and U name it can set up their own ministates on Pak soil and persons good and well meaning such as yourselves should have no problem with this - but that targetting and obliterating terrorist masterminds from the skies should cause nightmares of soverignty, seem to favor those who host terrorists and those who se mission is to create public opinion that favor the AQ/Talib.

For notions of sovereignty to be meaningfull, sovereignty must be exercised, this in turn infers responsiblity and authority - these the GoP refuses to exert or is unable to, in parts of Pakistan. Just because GoP abdicates it's responsiblity doesn't mean others will - some still think "honor" is a meaningful construct and not just political football, perhaps thinking Pakistanis should also think so, after all, their lives and property depend on such clear thinking.

 

[A.Rahman]

simple question deserves simple answer:

If gov was correctly following Islam, they would have cared about people.

They should stop caring about western interest, and should care about their own

 

[muse]

S2


Commitment, etc.



From my point of view, the additional US forces suggest that a Hammer & Anvil with Pak forces, are in the works -- it may or may not be a success - the US is not the only player in this and there is no need to underestimate other players and their resources.Between this success and failure there is much play. Mr. Khalizad has noted that giving the provinces more direct attention will be seen as a "hostile" act by some in the capital, kabul. And the Iranian may want to contribute differently.

US cannot stay in Afghanistan indefinitely, especially, as a power hostile to Afghanistan's immediate neighbors and it must not assert that it means to stay.

The solution is inside Afghanistan - US are in a advantageous position by owning this line of reasoning - it will one way or another, have to come to this position.

 

[S-2]

"From my point of view, the additional US forces suggest that a Hammer & Anvil with Pak forces, are in the works -- it may or may not be a success"

I don't think all that many forces will be committed to the east. I think the early arrivals will be heading south so unless you dramatically upgrade your posture in Quetta I don't foresee the same.

If I'm incorrect and they stay in the east, perhaps. That still requires a level of close cooperation that neither force has yet demonstrated. I hate working with an adjacent unit when graphic symbols on maps include national borders, different languages, and combat operations all together and simultaneously NEW to one another. Compound that with a REAL unease on the part of yanks working with your F.C. and I don't hold a lot of hope there either.

"Mr. Khalizad has noted that giving the provinces more direct attention will be seen as a "hostile" act by some in the capital, kabul."

It will be seen as a "hostile act" by none other than Hamid Karzai. His B.S. has gone just about far enough. He knows full well that our airstrikes and other incidents pale compared to the targeted actions of his own miscreant pashtu brothers, the actions of all concerned during the Afghan civil war, and the actions of the mujahideen, ANA, and Soviet Army. They aren't close but, like Pakistan, serve as a convenient cause celebre' to make hay during an election year.

He's squandered his goodwill with his calculated incompetencies that have enriched too few at the expense of too many for too long. As he's mayor of Kabul, his squawking won't matter much compared to real aid showing up in real places where real people live instead of his self-contrived la-la land in Kabul. That place bears no resemblance to the rest of the nation and might as well be OZ and him the Wizard.

Besides, why should Khalizad care?

"US cannot stay in Afghanistan indefinitely, especially, as a power hostile to Afghanistan's immediate neighbors and it must not assert that it means to stay."

Muse, there are forty-one other nations that see Afghanistan's stabilization as important. From the smallest to largest contributors, there views have been given very short shrift by Pakistanis. YOU'VE decided it's all about us.

That's why, although opium hectares in RC-EAST have fallen to nil but rages nonetheless in Kandahar and (especially) Helmand, it's STILL our fault. Were we so unilateral, I suspect that matters might be different.

As to your suggestion that America might stay in Afghanistan indefinitely as a "...power hostile to Afghanistan's immediate neighbors... [read Pakistan]", I'd suggest that harboring Hekmatyar, Haqqani, and the Quetta shura makes hostility a rather two-way street at this point. How long that requires the stay of America and others seems as much up to Pakistan as ourselves.

"...it must not assert that it means to stay."

We asserted as much in 1989 and look what it got us-charges of ABANDONMENT as though we'd had a historical interest in the region or relished the idea of later being accused of neo-imperialist/colonial ambitions. Silly us. All it got us were those charges anyway and a Pakistani nuke to boot.

"The solution is inside Afghanistan - US are in a advantageous position by owning this line of reasoning - it will one way or another, have to come to this position."

You may be correct. I'm less certain, though, that the problem is in Afghanistan too.