India involved in Lahore attacks: Police

[Xeric]

I dont know if its a Quiz on identification of the pic, in that case its a surrender by Pakistani Forces to Indian Forces in 1971. I told you, the situation in then East Pakistan was brought about by PA attitudes in conjunction with policy of treatment of citizens there as second rate.

The creation of the same was a result of lot of internal forces coming into play within the polity of Pakistan

A useful read:

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The situation was grim as I pointed out due to influx of refuges from the territories of East Pakistan and as such the pressure was on India to act.

It remained Pakistan's affair as long as there was no spillage into India. Any influx of refugees in large number causes tremendous pressure in local infrastructure and problems with law and order and human disasters are rampant.

If this aspect you are unable to appreciate, then you shall not be able to understand how Pakistan made a mistake then. No country can allow million plus refugees inside its territories and sit silently for more to come over, its akin to demographic invasion.

Off topic but...

i feel sorry for your darken mind.

Afghanistan also has pushed 3 million refugees inside Pakistan.

They (the Talibans there) have also been treating their citizens as a second class citizen.

i wonder why don't Pakistan go inside Afghanistan to 'act'!

So cut the crap!

 

[Xeric]

Dude, It became India's problme when over million regugees crossed over to India. Situation was dire and India saw a opprotunity to weaken Pakistan and it took it. Pakistan would of done the same if India was in that position.

Gabbar how truthful, candid, bold, forthright, audacious, heroic, and valorous of you to put up this statement!

incredible india!

 

[theonlyone]

Off topic but...

i feel sorry for your darken mind.

Afghanistan also has pushed 3 million refugees inside Pakistan.

They (the Talibans there) have also been treating their citizens as a second class citizen.

i wonder why don't Pakistan go inside Afghanistan to 'act'!

So cut the crap!

How can you 'act' against your own stooges?
You can just choose not to send them in the first place.
India on the other hand did not cause the situation for mass refugees to come rather Pakistan did by opresssion of bangla people.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Gabbar how truthful, candid, bold, forthright, audacious, heroic, and valorous of you to put up this statement!

incredible india!

Whenever you get time, have fun reading this -

1971 Bangladesh atrocities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It became India's problem when 3 million Bangladeshis were systematically annihilated under a planned genocide, by your own peace loving army. India saw an influx of 10 million Bangladeshi citizens to India. India could not afford to allow the liberation movement continue, which would have further worsened the situation. Whatever India did, was in the interest of India & Bangladesh.

 

[Xeric]

First Liberate Pakistan itself from the Taliban's otherwise the refugees from tht area may not even have a shelter to run to.

Why dont india first get its sh!t clean up and liberate itself from the various separatist and terrorist movements within the country and then talk of advising others!

Have a look:
(list of separatist movements inside india)
* Andhra Pradesh
o Political party: Jai Andhra
* Arunachal Pradesh
o Rebel organization: Arunachal Dragon Force
o Proposed autonomous region: Teola country
* Assam
o Rebel organization: United Liberation Front of Assam, Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam
* Bodoland
o Political parties: National Democratic Front of Bodoland
* Dimasaland
o Political party: Dima Halim Daogah (Two factions)
* Garo
o Rebel organizations: People's Liberation Front of Meghalaya/Achik National Volunteer Council[34]
o Proposed autonomous region: Achikland
* Gondwana
o Political party: Gondwana Ganatantra Party, seeking to create a Gondi state from parts of Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Maharashtra
* Kamtapur
o Political party: Kamtapur Peoples Party (political wing of KLO)
o Rebel organizations: Kamtapur Liberation Organisation, Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation

*
o Proposed autonomous region: Kamtapur state curved out of West Bengal
* Karbi
o Rebel organization: Karbi National Volunteers, United People’s Democratic Solidarity
o Proposed autonomous region: Karbi-Anglong
* Karnataka
o Proposed State: Tulu Nadu,seeking to create a Tulu state from parts of Karnataka
* Jammu & Kashmir
o Rebel organizations: Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul-mujahideen
o Proposed state: Unification with Pakistan
o Political organizations: All Parties Hurriyat Conference, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
o Proposed state: Independent State of Kashmir
* Nagaland
o Rebel organization: National Socialist Council of Nagaland
o Government-in-exile: Government of the People’s Republic of Nagaland
o Proposed state: Nagalim, or Peoples Republic of Nagaland
* Manipur
o Rebel organizations: Hmar People's Convention–Democrat, Manipur People’s Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front, Revolutionary People's Front of Manipur, People's Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak
* Mizoram
o Rebel organizations: Zomi Revolutionary Organization, Mizoram Farmers Liberation Force
o Proposed state: Zozam
* Punjab
o Proposed state: Khalistan
o Rebel organizations: Khalistan Commando Force, Babbar Khalsa International, Khalistan Zindabad Force, International Sikh Youth Federation, Khalistan Liberation Force
* Rayalaseema
* Tamil Nadu
o Rebel organizations: Tamil National Retrieval Troops, Tamil Nadu Liberation Army
* Telangana
o Telangana Rashtra Samithi, seeking to separate Telangana from Andhra Pradesh state. Various other minor groups such as Jai Telangana Party, Telangana Communist Party, Telangana Janata Party, Telangana Praja Samithi, Telangana Rashtra Party, Telangana Rashtra Sadhana Front, Telangana Rashtra Samithi and Telangana Sadhana Samithi.
* Tripura
o Rebel organizations: National Liberation Front of Tripura (two factions operating), All Tripura Tiger Force
* Vidarbha
o Political parties: Vidarbha Rajya Party, Vidarbha Vikas Party, seeking to separate Vidarbha from Maharashtra.
* Zomi
o Political parties: Zomi National Congress

 

[Sambha]

Whenever you get time, have fun reading this -

1971 Bangladesh atrocities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It became India's problem when 3 million Bangladeshis were systematically annihilated under a planned genocide, by your own peace loving army. India saw an influx of 10 million Bangladeshi citizens to India. India could not afford to allow the liberation movement continue, which would have further worsened the situation. Whatever India did, was in the interest of India & Bangladesh.

 

[Xeric]

Whenever you get time, have fun reading this -

1971 Bangladesh atrocities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It became India's problem when 3 million Bangladeshis were systematically annihilated under a planned genocide, by your own peace loving army. India saw an influx of 10 million Bangladeshi citizens to India. India could not afford to allow the liberation movement continue, which would have further worsened the situation. Whatever India did, was in the interest of India & Bangladesh.

Don't try to educate me, i know about this sh!t then any of you know, one.

Second have a look at my previous post and feel shame if you have any and try not to allow the liberation movements inside india (as you planned for Bangaladesh)

Third, the action of indian army was ok as regards to the interest of india, but what about Bangladeshi interest, oh sorry i forgot, Mr india had a dream since it was a 2-year-old of becoming a Policeman when it grew up!

 

[Ibraz Butt]

well...i think that really R.A.W. is involved in these cases...they wants to underestimate the pakistan's forces which is unacceptable!...
even the liberty attack in lahore was an attempt to cause disturb to pakistan's economical and political situation!
they actually wants to take away kashmir from our map and soon they wants to capture the whole of pakistan....
but our forces r unbeatable....n we r ready to defend our territory by hook or by crook!!

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Don't try to educate me, i know about this sh!t then any of you know, one.

Second have a look at my previous post and feel shame if you have any and try not to allow the liberation movements inside india (as you planned for Bangaladesh)

Third, the action of indian army was ok as regards to the interest of india, but what about Bangladeshi interest, oh sorry i forgot, Mr india had a dream since it was a 2-year-old of becoming a Policeman when it grew up!

What about Bangaldeshi interest? The very fact that they are alive today signifies that our action was in their interest. If we had delayed our action by a week, there would have been no Bangladeshis left to protect their interests.

And most of all, how do you justify the planned genocide that your army carried out?

 

[Xeric]

What about Bangaldeshi interest? The very fact that they are alive today signifies that our action was in their interest. If we had delayed our action by a week, there would have been no Bangladeshis left to protect their interests.

And most of all, how do you justify the planned genocide that your army carried out?

Did i ever say that the action by Pakistan in Bangladesh were justified??

We had and still maintain that it was a wrong way of handling the situation!

And this can be also be termed as one of the reason behind the lack of hard handed approach towards the Pakistani talibans. We don't want to repeat Bangladesh!
Go have a cup to tea and wake up!

 

[Xeric]

Have a look at the world refugee statistics and let me know how many have wagged war due to it:

Admit that it was just the 'akhand bharat' concept itching your PM at that time!




Some more....


TOP REFUGEE COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN

1. Afghanistan - 2.1 million

2. Iraq - 1.5 million (now 2.2 million)

3. Sudan - 686,000

4. Somalia - 460,000

5. Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) - about 400,000

5. Burundi - about 400,000

INTERNALLY DISPLACED BY CONFLICT

There are a total of 24.5 million IDPs.

MAIN COUNTRIES WITH INTERNALLY DISPLACED PEOPLE:

1. Colombia - 3 million

2. Iraq - 1.8 million (now more than 2 million)

3. Uganda - 1.6 million

4. Sudan - 5 million (of whom UNHCR assists 1.3 million)

5. DRC - 1.1 million

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Why dont india first get its sh!t clean up and liberate itself from the various separatist and terrorist movements within the country and then talk of advising others!

Have a look:
(list of separatist movements inside india)
* Andhra Pradesh
o Political party: Jai Andhra
* Arunachal Pradesh
o Rebel organization: Arunachal Dragon Force
o Proposed autonomous region: Teola country
* Assam
o Rebel organization: United Liberation Front of Assam, Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam
* Bodoland
o Political parties: National Democratic Front of Bodoland
* Dimasaland
o Political party: Dima Halim Daogah (Two factions)
* Garo
o Rebel organizations: People's Liberation Front of Meghalaya/Achik National Volunteer Council[34]
o Proposed autonomous region: Achikland
* Gondwana
o Political party: Gondwana Ganatantra Party, seeking to create a Gondi state from parts of Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Maharashtra
* Kamtapur
o Political party: Kamtapur Peoples Party (political wing of KLO)
o Rebel organizations: Kamtapur Liberation Organisation, Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation

*
o Proposed autonomous region: Kamtapur state curved out of West Bengal
* Karbi
o Rebel organization: Karbi National Volunteers, United People’s Democratic Solidarity
o Proposed autonomous region: Karbi-Anglong
* Karnataka
o Proposed State: Tulu Nadu,seeking to create a Tulu state from parts of Karnataka
* Jammu & Kashmir
o Rebel organizations: Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul-mujahideen
o Proposed state: Unification with Pakistan
o Political organizations: All Parties Hurriyat Conference, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
o Proposed state: Independent State of Kashmir
* Nagaland
o Rebel organization: National Socialist Council of Nagaland
o Government-in-exile: Government of the People’s Republic of Nagaland
o Proposed state: Nagalim, or Peoples Republic of Nagaland
* Manipur
o Rebel organizations: Hmar People's Convention–Democrat, Manipur People’s Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front, Revolutionary People's Front of Manipur, People's Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak
* Mizoram
o Rebel organizations: Zomi Revolutionary Organization, Mizoram Farmers Liberation Force
o Proposed state: Zozam
* Punjab
o Proposed state: Khalistan
o Rebel organizations: Khalistan Commando Force, Babbar Khalsa International, Khalistan Zindabad Force, International Sikh Youth Federation, Khalistan Liberation Force
* Rayalaseema
* Tamil Nadu
o Rebel organizations: Tamil National Retrieval Troops, Tamil Nadu Liberation Army
* Telangana
o Telangana Rashtra Samithi, seeking to separate Telangana from Andhra Pradesh state. Various other minor groups such as Jai Telangana Party, Telangana Communist Party, Telangana Janata Party, Telangana Praja Samithi, Telangana Rashtra Party, Telangana Rashtra Sadhana Front, Telangana Rashtra Samithi and Telangana Sadhana Samithi.
* Tripura
o Rebel organizations: National Liberation Front of Tripura (two factions operating), All Tripura Tiger Force
* Vidarbha
o Political parties: Vidarbha Rajya Party, Vidarbha Vikas Party, seeking to separate Vidarbha from Maharashtra.
* Zomi
o Political parties: Zomi National Congress

I've read variations of this list many times on t'internet. Most of them border on the ridiculous. I am replying to this one because I've read your posts and often enjoyed your analyses, so hope this helps.

Also, I'm not 'telling you' or 'retorting'. I'm giving a perspective that may help to refine yours, and of others on this forum. Or not.

First the Cliff notes version. A serious critique of India based on insurgencies carries weight when it cites two regions: Kashmir and the North East (Assam, Mizoram, Manipur etc). Most of the others are one man and his dog seeking a 'onemanandhisdog stan'

Kashmir, cause, consequences, et al, we know about, and needs no elaboration here.

Insurgency in the Indian North East is presently nowhere near the order of magnitude as in Kashmir. But it is a serious concern. Where it exists, is essentially (IMO) driven by race. People of this region are largely of a race that used to be known as Mongoloid. Arunachalis, Assamese, Khasis, Mizos, Nagas etc all share the same phenotype. The insurgency(ies) is/ are nowhere close to what is happening in Kashmir or Pakistan today. Not at all. But they simmer on and off, and in my opinion, are a cause for long term concern. This because India has not done a good job of integrating these peoples within the mainstream.

There is a third - the Naxal movements. As and where they happen are a response to the dire poverty in India. They represent legitimate concerns, but is their violence a threat and are they anywhere near insurgencies? Not by a long shot.

As for the rest:

1. Jai Andhra: Dunno what this is, but Sonia Gandhi was using this as a election slogan a while ago. I found this on google, the story is from 1973:

"Jai Andhra!" - TIME

2. Gondwana Ganatantra Party: Is demanding statehood (i.e. a separate state within India), not independence. These would be comparable to, I dunno, a district in Pakistan's Punjab wanting to become a new state?

For reference, India has a history of these, going back to the 1950s. The movement occurs within the national political framework. Once it gains enough momentum statehood is granted. But the process takes decades and 99 times out of a 100 it fizzles out.

As a point of interest three new states were created in India the 90s- 2000s.

3. Kamtapur Peoples Party: See above

4. Tulu Nadu: See above

5. Telengana: see above

6. Vidharba: See above

7. Tamil Nadu: The Tamil Nadu issue is not so much exaggerated as ridiculous. TN has a unique cultural identity and a very rich socio economic contribution to India. Tamils are distinct but to suggest that they will secede, or there is a mass movement is somewhat akin to suggesting that Texas will seceded from the US.

Incidentally the TNLA in the list, here's a quote from wikipedia:

....It had its roots in the Naxalite movement, and was headed by Thamizharasan, an engineering student from Ponparappi village. On September 1, 1987, the people of Ponparappi village lynched Thamizharasan and four of his associates, when they attempted to rob a bank.

8. Punjab: Was dead serious in the 80s and 90s. Is now a deadset joke. Incidentally, how we tackled this is a testimony to the Indian cultural/ democratic framework.

So in sum, a current and serious critique of insurgency in the Indian context comes down to Kashmir and the North East in that order. Personally, the North East is where I see a long term danger to India for geographical and cultural reasons.

Can speak more on it, but this is a long a$$ post as it is.

 

[Hellfire]

Hellfire,

the problem still continues.

Immigrants issue will be deciding factor in Assam

It is widely believed that the demographics of districts such as Dhuburi and Goalpara have changed because of the phenomenon. Even districts such as Kokrajhar, Morigaon and Nagaon are believed to be immigrant-dominated now.
Recent unrest in Barpeta, Nalbari and Darrang districts indicate that these districts too are headed that way, according to Samujjal Bhattacharya, a veteran leader of the AASU.
“Everyone but the Congress government (in Assam) acknowledges that of the 26 million people in Assam, as many as six million are illegal Bangladeshi immigrants… We are facing a silent invasion and no political party is bothered,” says Bhattacharya, who’s now turned an adviser to the organization.
Dhiren Bezboruah, founder-editor of The Sentinel newspaper and a former president of the Editors’ Guild of India, says migrants would create a “Greater Bangladesh” in Assam if they were not stopped from entering Indian territory immediately.

Immigrants issue will be deciding factor in Assam - Economy and Politics - livemint.com

bordering on off topic

that is internal mess of so called secular front forces which are keen on maintaining vote banks.

The implications of PA acts in 1971 were clear and results a consequence of the same.

 

[Hellfire]

Pakistan had that option in 1962 when Indians were busy fighting china. But did n t take it because we prefer peace. But who know that

pure bullshit at best and crap at worst

your assessment and analysis could not be more immature. At the time of Sino-Indian war there was massive support from US-UK who were at one time willing to intervene on behalf of India. You could not do anything even if you wanted to. Would have loved to see Pakistan do that actually. As a state would not have lasted beyond 1970 also then.

 

[Hellfire]

Hi,
There are literally over millions of Afghan Refugees in Pakistan.By your analogy, Pakistan must liberate Afghanistan.Had Russia Cut off West and East cost of USA into two piece..Would USA ever forget about it?
Thanks

be realistic

could you fight Soviet forces in a direct confrontation at all in 80s? Your post is simply an intellectual parley I guess for you know that had Pakistan wanted, even then it could not directly take on Soviets, who just were looking for an excuse to invade Pakistan (remember they were cheering India during Ex. Brasstacks and wanted India to invade so that they could come in as well as part of Indo-Soviet Friendship Treaty of 1970?)

You should have just tried any of this, like Pakomar said, attack India in 1962 or invade Afghanistan in 1980s ........ it would have solved lots of Indian and world problems honestly.