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Indian army's biggest enemy - stress, low morale, bad service conditions,

fine, there is a problem, we all know it. BUT, they are there because of the terrorists, as the army is there in the first place in huge numbers because of them.
 
And this justifies the Indian issue how? I am fully aware of the problems there and do not deny that they exist (i.e. trying to blame others for the problems) What happens in both cases are wrong however only you guys are trying to justify it...........

Where did I justify ? You do not deny the problem exists on Pakistan part too, So you copy and paste only India's part ? No two wrong makes one right.
 
Where did I justify ? You do not deny the problem exists on Pakistan part too, So you copy and paste only India's part ? No two wrong makes one right.

This is not compare and contrast......I have seen lot of posts on here claiming it is all nice and cosy and that any problems are caused by the "evil" terrorists. Sorry guys as someone who has seen this kinda thing up close to classify it as good guys and bad guys is naive. Anytime you create a situation where there are "disappearances" or extra judicial killings (which some of you seem quite keen on) you have lost ALL moral high ground. You are no better than the people you classify as being evil.

I am fully aware of PAK's problems hence I did not "copy paste" any of them. You guys remind me of the Serbs. They denied any massacres took place. that everything was propaganda. If you guys came on here and said "yes we are aware of this......it is wrong and when I get a chance I will correct this injustice." then you would take away any argument from others. Instead you make excuses as to why it happens or deny that it has happened.
 
Kashmir's extra-judicial killings

A young Indian soldier recently stationed in Kashmir reflects on the controversial issue of 'fake encounter' killings - where the security forces are alleged to carry out extra-judicial killings while claiming they were caught up in gun battles with militants.
Since he gave these views to the BBC's Urdu service, seven policemen have been charged with murder in connection with the death of a carpenter that he refers to.





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I heard that there have been some 'fake encounter' killings in Ganderbal [near the summer capital, Srinagar].

It's not that I was not aware of the fact that these things happen, but somehow the number disturbed me.

Apparently the security forces are being held responsible, and they have probably even accepted responsibility.

Some of the people who are part of the security forces are Kashmiris, some of them are even surrendered militants who fought the army at one time. I was appalled, and at the same time very sad.

The question is, why would anybody want to kill a poor carpenter? I mean how harmful can he be? The answer is so obvious that I was at first surprised and then angry at my own naivety.

The answer is the system.

'Tough mercenaries'

The system in the Kashmir valley has become such that "kills" by so-called security forces are associated with medals, monetary benefits, promotions and a host of other perks.

So any organisation getting or registering more "kills" reaps the benefits.

Now, to kill a seasoned militant these days is difficult, because these guys are mercenaries and are tough.

So some elements within the security forces apparently do the next easiest thing: pick up an innocent man from the street and get him killed somewhere else.

And the saddest part about the whole thing is that even Kashmiris themselves are doing this to their own people.

Suddenly everything becomes a blur. It becomes unclear who the real enemy is. I had come to the valley with naive ideas of being able to make a difference, but in reality I can only influence not more than 10 people.

'Dying for a cause'

And then something like this happens, and there are villagers and more villagers protesting on the street, asking for freedom from this kind of oppression.

Obviously they will protest. Anybody would.

Even if there is no solution in sight one cannot just go and pick up people from the street and kill them. And if they do this there will be never be any solution.

I had dear friends who had nothing to do with the Kashmir problem, who were from places far away from here, who were soldiers, who died here believing they were dying for a cause because they were told so.

But now I realise they do not really want to solve the whole issue.

The big game being played here is that of money. Money being pumped in by Pakistan to wage the war and money from India to conquer it.

And as long as there is a war going on in the valley there will be unaccounted money and people to make good use of it.

I realise that we are just pawns in this game of dirty politics. And I suddenly feel small... very small.

The soldier wished to remain anonymous.

BBC News.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6367917.stm
 
This is not compare and contrast......I have seen lot of posts on here claiming it is all nice and cosy and that any problems are caused by the "evil" terrorists. Sorry guys as someone who has seen this kinda thing up close to classify it as good guys and bad guys is naive. Anytime you create a situation where there are "disappearances" or extra judicial killings (which some of you seem quite keen on) you have lost ALL moral high ground. You are no better than the people you classify as being evil.

I am fully aware of PAK's problems hence I did not "copy paste" any of them. You guys remind me of the Serbs. They denied any massacres took place. that everything was propaganda. If you guys came on here and said "yes we are aware of this......it is wrong and when I get a chance I will correct this injustice." then you would take away any argument from others. Instead you make excuses as to why it happens or deny that it has happened.


Are you comparing what the serbs did in kosovo to ours, HRW gives more points for its freedom to Indian kashmir than Pakistan kashmir, You have the all powerfull ISI covering up and killing journalist, India being an open society brings up its bad apples, Its very funny when you accuse them, Unlike the serbs, The systems put in by us, such as the investigating agencies, Military Police, Judiciary bought out the culprits in the open and proscuted them. It is our Newspapers who reported them. I fail to see your point. Nobody made any excuses over here, they said it happened, but nobody over here will agree here to propoganda that it happened in thousands, some even said 80,000; when asked for proof they have none.
 
There are plenty of things wrong in PAK too. I am not defending them because they are wrong too. But maybe You guys will stop living in a state of denial........

Oh please. leave us alone. We havnt denied anything its just poor souls like you, which comes out with the same news one after another.
 
You have got to be kidding me.........the whole point of this thread is to discuss the subject if you can't be bothered to read through it then I suggest you don't comment as you don't have all the information. Secondly the posts i made were in reply to this by ADUX

"Keys

I suggest you put up the report., Amnesty international has never claimed IA is the one who killed 80,000. Please dont suggest my country is run by Idi Amin and my Army is their Henchmen."

Now if you can't figure this out there is no hope for you guys............

You still havnt put up that report, instead you have dragged in Gujarat and Sikhs.
 
This is not compare and contrast......I have seen lot of posts on here claiming it is all nice and cosy and that any problems are caused by the "evil" terrorists.


oh please man where did you read that. Can you post one here?


Anytime you create a situation where there are "disappearances" or extra judicial killings (which some of you seem quite keen on) you have lost ALL moral high ground. You are no better than the people you classify as being evil.

Tell me about a country / a kingdom / a scoiety which hasnt witnessed it and holds the moral high ground you speak about.
 
regarding committing suicide i think it is more of a religious / cultural upbringing. As a proof many indians commit suicide cause the stars were right for them and they can always be born again in another form if the current life doesnt workout for them. In Dubai I mean even well paid indians also committ suicide at an alarming rate, and is published in local news very often. Majority of them are related to fianacial problems, love scandals, and fortune tellings.

One of the very popular cases resulted in Etisalat (UAE Telecommunication Authority). All the indian workforce were insured against accidents/deaths in Etisalat. BUt suddenly accidental deaths increased ny 2 every month. investigation showed this was the easy way to earn a decent amount for their family's back home. Now etisalat doesnot pay any compensation to nay of its workforces and the death's have ceased. There are many more incidents like one man cut the throat of his wifer and three daughters cause a fortune teller said that his wife will no longer remain loyal in the near future.

It is funny how educated people committ suicide so easily, But i dont blame the labour they are modern day slaves in UAE. I heard that a 1000 indian labour have agreed to work in dubai for 400 dhs a month. Thats nearly suicidal to me.
 
And do you think Pakistani are better off in Dubai, please do remember that i am a Malayalee(kerala), Dubai is home turf for me. Arabs treat every other muslim than themseleves are second grade. Dubai is better off, Check out Kuwait and Bahrain, Oman etc. Philipino's and their kind regarded the worst.
Middle east is a racist region. Where South Asians are cheap labour and Camel jockey's. Arabs come over here to marry indian/pakistani gals to add to their many numbers. Its car collections, basically

Fortune telling crap- you are blowing it out of proportion. One or a few thousand cases are a testament to a billion,
 
Middle east is a racist region, can you come up with one place on this planet where race discromination is not at place. Did you forget London and US or Russian or germany? We are living in the era of nationalism. To the Emaratis the asians are cheap labour and so are the chinses. Anyways no arab is snatching innocent for india, they are all volunteers rushing to Dubai.

Another myth about arabs coming to indian and pakistan for marriage, really tell me how much of it is treu according to your statement arabsa re racist then why would they marry asain women? A matter of fact is they donot marry outside of their tribe, no matter how ugly or bautiful you are. Yes 1 in a million foriegn marriages are at place.

Regarding Fortunetelling India is the largets palce on earth where millions of foutune tellers make living on this profession. There are hundreds of channels all dedicating to "star reading" programs, magazines. MAjority of the celebrities also belief in fortune tellign as well as the politicians. Plz I was born in Dubai and have close links with the arabs.

Indian labour are used cause they come here on their free will, they would die anyway in india cause fo famine, 2 million indians living in UAE were not all kidnapped and used as child jockeys.
 
arabi kalyanam : please put that in Google search.
It means Arab weddings.

I didnt mean they are kiddnapped, it was in your previous post you named the slave labour. There are other means of slavery than old western kidnapping a person from africa thingie...
Do you have any official stats of your fortune telling saga, is it same fear mongering and stupid claim by islamophobics that as every muslim is not a terrorist but every terrorist is a muslim, should i make such a broad generalization. I am not saying Indians are not benfitting from Middle east.
I have been to the west as well as the middle east extensively
Oh please, West are far better off than Middle east, in treating people in General, They have a had bad history, but atleast now they are making good progress. Too bad cuz of OBL ****, arabs are getting it. Arabs are stupid fucks and that is reality.

its not only Indians, Pakistani's are in even worse state, Seen the construction workers and the patani taxi's lately
 

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