Indian task force suggests inflicting ‘economic pain’ on Pakistan

[Iggy]

Read from Page 47 onwards plzzzzzz, official document of the FICCI directly available on its website.

http://www.ficci.com/SPdocument/20032/terrorism-report.pdf

I had no idea how much hate there is in Indian mindset, today had the privilege of reading a few Bharat Rakshak threads, there is such a poisonous attitude i was astonished, this forum is 1000 times better then that one, atleast its very very civilized comparing to the other forum and such kind of documents.

Sir I am not able to open the link you gave me..But i am taking your word for it..I don't know whats in it but will it can be an action plan for worst case scenario ??I am sure that your countrymen will also prepare this kind of proposals about your neighbors too ???Is that military and strategic planners are meant to do??and also its just a proposals it will have to be approved by the government...

And about the Bharat Rakshak Forum,I agree to some extend that there are some members there who have poisonous attitude..But sir you can see the same attitude in some of other forums related to Pakistan Defense ..you are aware that they are calling us with all kind of words and talking about nuking us like throwing a cricket ball across the border...

What I meant that war mongers and hatred people are in both our countries..People to people communication and co operation is the only way we can eradicate the these kind of hatred from the minds of people..


After joining this forum I came to know more about your country Sir.this forum helps me eradicate lots of misconceptions about your country.I hope that some of the Pakistani members can said about my country too...This forum is a good example of showing that there is no difference between people living in either side of the border..

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir I am not able to open the link you gave me..But i am taking your word for it..I don't know whats in it but will it can be an action plan for worst case scenario ??I am sure that your countrymen will also prepare this kind of proposals about your neighbors too ???Is that military and strategic planners are meant to do??and also its just a proposals it will have to be approved by the government...

Well initially it wasn't opening at my side too but later it started working, i just opened it again and was working, maybe later it starts working for you too, it takes time as its a heavy file, so when you open the link wait for few mins. Its basically a documents giving suggestions on how to counter the Indian internal insurgencies and a Pakistan related topic kind of things. To be frank i have not seen upto now such kind of documents and suggestions from any Pakistani non-govt or govt agency with such hawkish suggestions being put forward in regard to India. I may be naive in this matter but what is the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry doing in publishing such kind of reports ?? I don't believe it is a think tank related to Indian Security matters, its job is related to the policies and welfare related to the Indian Commerce and Industrial sector, so whats the point of publishing such documents, does it comes into their domain ?? It was really surprising for me atleast. And problem is not the approval of such suggestions but such documents from such an organization does tell the mindset of the people it is representing and the detail of the guys involved have either served in the power corridors of Indian govt or have strong links to the power house of Indian govt. It does increase the hatred among people and gave us a insight to the perspective of the Indian industrial giants and people who run it, they are off course a powerful community in any country of the world playing major part in politics nowadays. And i do believe the hidden Indian actions to adopt in future God forbid something bad happens between both countries would also be inline to such suggestions.

And about the Bharat Rakshak Forum,I agree to some extend that there are some members there who have poisonous attitude..But sir you can see the same attitude in some of other forums related to Pakistan Defense ..you are aware that they are calling us with all kind of words and talking about nuking us like throwing a cricket ball across the border...

What I meant that war mongers and hatred people are in both our countries..People to people communication and co operation is the only way we can eradicate the these kind of hatred from the minds of people..


After joining this forum I came to know more about your country Sir.this forum helps me eradicate lots of misconceptions about your country.I hope that some of the Pakistani members can said about my country too...This forum is a good example of showing that there is no difference between people living in either side of the border..

Agreed that by discussions on such forums do make us learn more about each other and misconceptions are removed. But as far as this forum is concerned whoever adopts an insulting behavior about any country gets banned too, posts get deleted and threads get closed too and warning are issued. But as for Bharat Rakshak sorry to be saying that i did not saw such things happenings, saw some very insulting threads with dozens of posts with insults too regarding Pakistan. I haven't been to many such forums, this one i joined way back for watching pictures only, but 3-4 months back by chance read some threads and liked the style of this forum running, BS is not tolerated and a very decent civilized discussion happen. Rotten apples are everywhere from anywhere but here the rotten apples are controlled and those who survive control themselves as they don't wish to get banned too and wish to enjoy the forum too.

Anyhow, such documents don't spell a good impression, for me it was shocking and an eye opener as such organizations Job is not to publish such items as they have no good value rather promote bad will and show what the other side is thinking to damage us.

 

[Moorkh]

This will become Nuclear War because of our clear cut First use policy its was stated by both Musharaf and Kiyani that incase of any attack on our city Pakistan will not hesitate to hit back.Ok let me ask you a question

What will you do if our jets bomb Mumbai or delhi,sit back and relax?
We wont! if you do this to our any city.

Why dont we see it this way will India will be stupid enough to risk its almost 700 million to take on Pakistan.

As for Kargil had your lover(US) not came to your assistance a Pakistan would'nt have left and their might have been a Nuclear war dont you remember clinton who wrote that had they not Intervened a Nuclear war was inviteable your warmongers were so convinced that by thier divine power that they could win Nuclear War.

do u realise what kind of an escalation you are talking about here?

i am fabricating a scenario here

another mumbai like terrorist attack takes place which the indian government believes was launched from some place in pakistan

GoI realises that GoP has not done enough to stop those attacks and decides to take out the training camps unilaterally by say a small squadron of bomber aircraft which do not strike any other target

IA does not mobilize indicating to the world and pakistan that India doesnt want a war.

the GoP declares that the bombing of pakistani(held) territory is an act of war.

now will the GoP immediately turn the situation into a nuclear conflagration?

just imagine

bombing of a very very limited and small number of targets being escalated to a nuclear war.

unlikely unless the person in control of the nukes is itching to launch them

this is a scenario i painted from the top of my mind and have taken several liberties

so please dont think that nukes are a magical shield which will stop indians from doing anything to you.

while the GoP and PA are responsible for protecting the sovereignty of pakistan they are also responsible for protecting the lives of the pakistani people. launching the nukes will mean damning the people to death for a relatively small impeachment of sovereignty.

i hope sane minds will choose from among these 2 .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

FICCI suggestions on Pakistan 'irresponsible': Kashmir business lobby​

2009-11-16 16:10:00

New Delhi Nov 16 (IANS) India's top industry lobby recommending hard military and economic counter-actions against Pakistan has drawn flak from a business body in Jammu and Kashmir which says its recommendations are 'irresponsible and immature'.

The Federation Chamber of Industries Kashmir (FCIK), the state's premier business body said the 'Task Force report on National Security and Terrorism' brought out by the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) last week was aimed at creating 'hostility and will spell disaster of an unimaginable magnitude between India and Pakistan'.

The FICCI report details how Pakistan's policies on terrorism and its military establishment infused with 'jehadist' mindset would continue to threaten India's surging economy and security in the coming years.

It recommends hard options to make 'sponsorship of terrorism prohibitive for our neighbours'. For starters, the report suggests to 'inflict economic pain' on Pakistan and conduct surgical strikes, targetting terror camps in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

'The FICCI should have devoted time in identifying and formulating policies for the economic prosperity of the country. It has unfortunately indulged in political gimmicks and that too with a gruesome mindset against the neighbouring country,' FCIK president Shakeel Qalandar told IANS in Srinagar.

In its report released last week, FICCI said: 'Hard military and economic counter-actions should be the answer to Pakistan's cross-border terror' while regretting that New Delhi's response so far had been only 'reactive and defensive'.

Qalandar said when the world economies were trying to build peace by creating business stakes, the FICCI is ironically advocating strategies that in turn would lead to war between the two countries.

'It is unfortunate that when the entire world is engaged in lobbying for resumption of talks between India and Pakistan through confidence building measures, including free travel and trade initiatives, FICCI is putting forward irresponsible and immature statements,' he said.

He said India had five times more a favourable balance in the bilateral trade with Pakistan and cessation of imports from Pakistan as suggested by the FICCI reflects the naivety of the business lobby's task force.

He said that efforts needed to be made for equitable economic development through mutual help and support bringing all countries in the region closer and united to fight against any menace including terrorism.

FICCI suggestions on Pakistan 'irresponsible': Kashmir business lobby

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

do u realise what kind of an escalation you are talking about here?

i am fabricating a scenario here

another mumbai like terrorist attack takes place which the indian government believes was launched from some place in pakistan

GoI realises that GoP has not done enough to stop those attacks and decides to take out the training camps unilaterally by say a small squadron of bomber aircraft which do not strike any other target

IA does not mobilize indicating to the world and pakistan that India doesnt want a war.

the GoP declares that the bombing of pakistani(held) territory is an act of war.

now will the GoP immediately turn the situation into a nuclear conflagration?

just imagine

bombing of a very very limited and small number of targets being escalated to a nuclear war.

unlikely unless the person in control of the nukes is itching to launch them

this is a scenario i painted from the top of my mind and have taken several liberties

so please dont think that nukes are a magical shield which will stop indians from doing anything to you.

while the GoP and PA are responsible for protecting the sovereignty of pakistan they are also responsible for protecting the lives of the pakistani people. launching the nukes will mean damning the people to death for a relatively small impeachment of sovereignty.

i hope sane minds will choose from among these 2 .

Given that the GoP is having trouble controlling terrorism in Pakistan, and NATO the same in Afghanistan, what on earth are 'limited strikes in Pakistan' by the IAF going to accomplish?

Does India have some magical weaponry to eliminate terrorism with a few air strikes? Who determines the targets? Do you honestly expect Pakistan to just sit back and accept an Indian target list? What fantasy land are you living in?

Breaching Pakistani airspace to attack ANY target (no matter what spin is put on it by the GoI) will be taken as an act of war - Pakistan made that very clear in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks.

Whether the war escalates or not to a nuclear confrontation will depend on how the war itself shakes out, but Pakistan has made it clear that war it shall be if it is provoked in the manner suggested by the FICCI report.

 

[MilesTogo]

I agree with AM here. Terrorism can not be eliminated by surgical strikes.

 

[RobbieS]

Given that the GoP is having trouble controlling terrorism in Pakistan, and NATO the same in Afghanistan, what on earth are 'limited strikes in Pakistan' by the IAF going to accomplish?

Does India have some magical weaponry to eliminate terrorism with a few air strikes? Who determines the targets? Do you honestly expect Pakistan to just sit back and accept an Indian target list? What fantasy land are you living in?

Breaching Pakistani airspace to attack ANY target (no matter what spin is put on it by the GoI) will be taken as an act of war - Pakistan made that very clear in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks.

Whether the war escalates or not to a nuclear confrontation will depend on how the war itself shakes out, but Pakistan has made it clear that war it shall be if it is provoked in the manner suggested by the FICCI report.

In case of surgical strikes, the terrorist training camps in Muzaffarabd and other areas in *** (Azad kashmir) will be hit. So how's that violating Pak airspace? That is something to be taken care of by the Azad Kashmir PM and their so called Parliament, right? Thats because they are a separate country in itself. I wonder why the Pakis are getting all excited. Relax guys, only the terror camps in *** will be hit and I am sure their govt. will manage it.

 

[TaimiKhan]

In case of surgical strikes, the terrorist training camps in Muzaffarabd and other areas in *** (Azad kashmir) will be hit. So how's that violating Pak airspace? That is something to be taken care of by the Azad Kashmir PM and their so called Parliament, right? Thats because they are a separate country in itself. I wonder why the Pakis are getting all excited. Relax guys, only the terror camps in *** will be hit and I am sure their govt. will manage it.

Don't worry, Pakistan has a defence pact with AJK, so incase you guys attack AJK, Pakistan will be there to help them defend Indian aggression. And by the way lets suppose if there are any camps in AJK being run by the Mujaheddin, don't expect them to be waiting for the IAF come and bomb their arses.

 

[kattabomman]

crossposted from Sehar's brilliant thread:

--------------------
Pakistan by sticking to its regressive existence is hurting itself enormously.
Before China became an economic success story all her smaller neighbouring countries (south Korea, Taiwan, Japan) had already achieved huge success due to having smaller size and hence better economic managability.
Similarly Pakistan should have become much more prosperous than India but squandered its window of opportunity which is irreversible and as Pakistan continues with its misplaced priorities it will not even be able to match the most backward of Indian states.
-------------------------

And without the generosity of Indian government to grant access to Indian markets Pakistan will remain economically disadvantaged in South Asia.

 

[RobbieS]

Don't worry, Pakistan has a defence pact with AJK, so incase you guys attack AJK, Pakistan will be there to help them defend Indian aggression. And by the way lets suppose if there are any camps in AJK being run by the Mujaheddin, don't expect them to be waiting for the IAF come and bomb their arses.

Of course not. They will run and hide behind the backsides of their Pakistani chachas (read ISI) in Pakistani territory. And they will then say they are humanitarian agencies like JuD who rund school and instititions for the destitute, right?

Wonder why their ISI chachas dont help them with drone strikes by US forces inside Pak territory on the western border. Soverienity and national pride go right outside the window huh?

 

[Moorkh]

Given that the GoP is having trouble controlling terrorism in Pakistan, and NATO the same in Afghanistan, what on earth are 'limited strikes in Pakistan' by the IAF going to accomplish?

Does India have some magical weaponry to eliminate terrorism with a few air strikes? Who determines the targets? Do you honestly expect Pakistan to just sit back and accept an Indian target list? What fantasy land are you living in?

Breaching Pakistani airspace to attack ANY target (no matter what spin is put on it by the GoI) will be taken as an act of war - Pakistan made that very clear in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks.


as to what they will

Whether the war escalates or not to a nuclear confrontation will depend on how the war itself shakes out, but Pakistan has made it clear that war it shall be if it is provoked in the manner suggested by the FICCI report.

my point was not to condone those air strikes or even to say they could succeed. it is very probable that the PAF or PA will intervene and stop the planes.
I was trying to emphasize that nukes are not any joke and india does have a little maneuver space short of a nuclear war.

i dont say that its a good option or that it will even work. i am saying that the option exists.

also i was painting a very generic scenario. those air strikes could be any military action to destroy those camps.

as to what they will accomplish(if they succeed at all)-
1) they will reduce the amount of infrastructure supporting/training the terrorists.
by what i have read the number of camps will not be more that a few dozen
the link is old so the number might have changed. hopefully for both our sakes, i hope that number has reduced.
http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=71893

getting rid of 5 or 6 of them effects a lot.

2) so far the terrorists knew they were immune on that side of the border, these strikes will send the message that it is not the case anymore. this will be a setback to the morale of the terrorists.

3) this will tell the GoP that india is willing to take more drastic measures to fight terrorism so the support for the so called "freedom fighters" should go. you may call this a threat.

4) the case in afganistan and with the TTP is that there no such targets exist. so all the NATO firepower stays unused. in this case the targets exist and therefore hitting them is an option.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

what a joke....india has no leverage over us whatsoever

they'd like to think they do maybe, especially BJP types.


they can limit water supplies, but arbitration and/or our own surgical procedures can take care of that

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Read from Page 47 onwards plzzzzzz, official document of the FICCI directly available on its website.

http://www.ficci.com/SPdocument/20032/terrorism-report.pdf

I had no idea how much hate there is in Indian mindset, today had the privilege of reading a few Bharat Rakshak threads, there is such a poisonous attitude i was astonished, this forum is 1000 times better then that one, atleast its very very civilized comparing to the other forum and such kind of documents.

in the end, who cares?

what are the indians gonna do

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

third eye if you can lay hands on this book kindly read it and i would like to have an edition of it too
There are alot of things

"Who Killed Karkare?Real face of terrorism in India"
ISBN-10: 81-7221-036-1
Year: 2009
Publishers: Pharos Media Publishing Pvt Ltd

should be interesting. It has been released, right?

A commission set up (in his memory) should be engendered to continue investigation of hindu nationalist sponsored terrorism ---which has claimed the lives of scores of civilians including citizens of Republic of Pakistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Close all the infrastructure of LET / JUD and other related organisations, dont allow those guys to raise funds in Islamabad and lahore for financing terrorist activities.

LeT has been banned and is a non-existant entity.

JuD is purely an Islamic Charity that has done productive and great things for Pakistanis --from earthquake affectees to Hindu Sindhi farmers to development of water-wells in Christian populated areas. It was actually Hindus and Christians who were furious and holding demonstrations when there was talk of Mr. Saeed facing house arrest.


They also run a network of schools, and BBC covered the legitamacy of these charity-run schools for the lower income students.

india just has a problem with Hafiz Saeed, who has good relations with the political leaders and personalities in Azad & Occupied Kashmir.



as for 26/11 -- it was a tragedy, and Pakistan extended its condolences to india. But our grief turned to anger and disgust when your sensationalist media began a smearing campaign. Very unprofessional.

as an indian, be more concerned about home-grown terror networks. The naxals (according to PM Singh) pose greatest threat to india --yet they are operating in 1/3 of the country.

also be worried about the hotel workers and some of the gunmen, who were participating in the attacks as well (e.g. Fahim Ansari)