Indonesia Defence Forum

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Well since you mentioned MOSAIC family ships i searched Orizonte naval system and i found MOSAIC 1.5, 1.7, and even larger 2.0, 2.2, 2.4. Seems decent enough for me as a corvette
View attachment 569381 View attachment 569380 View attachment 569381

View attachment 569380

The place for main gun and VLS are exactly the same as our CG's Tanjung Datu ship and also same as our PT PAL's OPV design.

Thus no need to cooperate with Orizonte or Damen any more...

 

[barjo]

what about turk ada class (MILGEM) , that thing was also a very capable corvette ? i still remember like in 2011 there was a rumour about procurement of ada class wandering around the net , i believe they would also give us a decent TOT and Cooperation , and now the news is pretty much unheard

Milgem is good one, the radar is good same as 10514 Smart S MK II, (kok ngasih namanya kaya gitu ya, misuh kalau dibaca kecepeten) and the sensor apperently better than us. For the ship building style they much like to copy germany in this case MEKO design with some US litoral combat ship flavour

Well since you mentioned MOSAIC family ships i searched Orizonte naval system and i found MOSAIC 1.5, 1.7, and even larger 2.0, 2.2, 2.4. Seems decent enough for me as a corvette
View attachment 569381 View attachment 569380 View attachment 569381

View attachment 569380

Yes the design good enough and the size already design froom the begining to be up size (CMIIW) damen nyaris bangkrut kalau nga dapat proyek dri kita dulu. And why they use different design for us and maroko. Maroko upsize still use 13 meter wide design but for us use 14 m. For me there are may be flaws is some design so suddenly they need to add 1 m more, but it just me... I dont know since the beggining did they have the design for 10514 or not

 

[Cromwell]

The place for main gun and VLS are exactly the same as our CG's Tanjung Datu ship and also same as our PT PAL's OPV design.

Thus no need to cooperate with Orizonte or Damen any more...

I think you should add another forgotten factor in your calculation. Fee, some say, not me, others say you won't get a prime contract without fee which satisfies everyone. Using local Terafulk design, well, let's see if there's fee on it. Besides a corvette with complex subsystems like sensors, radars, armaments and CMS to integrate them all remains beyond our grasp yet. Our capabillity isn't that far yet, the level of participation in 2 PKR was only 4%, we barely involved and management was under direct Dutch supervision. You overestimated our capabillity, OPV is basic however corvette with ASuW, limited AAW & ASW capabillities are still beyond our grasps.

Milgem is good one, the radar is good same as 10514 Smart S MK II, (kok ngasih namanya kaya gitu ya, misuh kalau dibaca kecepeten) and the sensor apperently better than us. For the ship building style they much like to copy germany in this case MEKO design with some US litoral combat ship flavour


Yes the design good enough and the size already design froom the begining to be up size (CMIIW) damen nyaris bangkrut kalau nga dapat proyek dri kita dulu. And why they use different design for us and maroko. Maroko upsize still use 13 meter wide design but for us use 14 m. For me there are may be flaws is some design so suddenly they need to add 1 m more, but it just me... I dont know since the beggining did they have the design for 10514 or not

Yup SIGMA 9113 contracts saved the shipyard from bankruptcy. Ever since they won the contract for 4 corvettes from us, Damen Schelde brand got lifted up in international naval shipyard vendors.

 

[Cromwell]

B. JAKARTA 2725
Classified By: Pol/C Joseph Legend Novak, reasons 1.4 (b+d).
1. (C) SUMMARY: U.S. Air Force Deputy U/S Lemkin told the
Indonesian DefMin on February 15 that the U.S. was prepared
to help Indonesia develop its air capabilities by broadening
bilateral cooperation through sales and upgrades of F-16s and
further training and exercise opportunities. Sudarsono said
he would review the ideas. He acknowledged the quality and
cost-effectiveness of U.S. equipment, but noted tight
budgetary priorities and said airlift would take priority
over fighters. END SUMMARY.
BUILDING CAPABILITIES
2. (C) In their February 15 meeting, Deputy Under Secretary
Bruce Lemkin told Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono that the
purpose of his visit was to present a wide range of medium-
and long-term cooperation opportunities with the Indonesian
Air Force. His visit had strong interagency support in
Washington. The United States was interested in working with
Indonesia as a partner to help Indonesia meet its defense
requirements and to build a strong bilateral relationship.
Indonesian needs seemed to include assistance combating
piracy and illegal commercial activities, etc., and
assistance building capabilities in humanitarian assistance
and disaster relief. Interoperability was an added benefit
which would flow from cooperation.
3. (C) Continuing, Lemkin noted that U.S. equipment was
superior to that of other suppliers in quality and in the
support and maintenance packages that ensured sustainability
over many years. Since the lifting of sanctions two years
ago, the USG had helped Indonesia recover F-16 engines from
Singapore and obtain C-130 spare parts from Australia, to
name two examples, and had allocated $16 million in Foreign
Military Financing (FMF) assistance to provide for a program
of depot maintenance.
EQUIPMENT RECOMMENDATIONS: F-16, C-130, AT-6
4. (C) Lemkin discussed several U.S. products, including:
-- F-16s: purchase of new models would give Indonesia the
same model that the United States used to protect its own
security, while mid-life upgrades of older Indonesian F-16s
could augment that capability in the medium term at reduced
cost; the F-16s would place Indonesia in line to acquire the
Joint-Strike Fighter in the future. (Reftels detail the F-16
deals under consideration.)
-- Airlift: the C-130J offered state-of-the-art
civil-military use and was proving to be extremely popular,
with orders from at least 30 countries, including some which
had not previously purchased U.S. equipment. It would
therefore offer economies of scale in pricing and servicing.
The C-27J was also available for joint cargo use.
-- AT-6: A central component of USAF and USN fleets, the
turboprop could replace Indonesia's grounded U.S.-made OV-10
light-attack fleet to enhance national air sovereignty and
perform search-and-rescue missions; U.S. and allies' orders
totaled over 1000, and the plane would be supported until at
least 2050.
TRAINING, EXCHANGE, EXERCISE OPPORTUNITIES
5. (C) Lemkin noted that Indonesia planned to participate in
the Global Hawk Capabilities Forum in Honolulu, Hawaii, in
April 2008, which would analyze information provided from
actual Global Hawk flights. Other training, exchange and
exercise opportunities which Lemkin outlined included:
JAKARTA 00000325 002 OF 003
-- Air Operations Center Development, through education,
training and systems;
-- exchange of students to respective air war colleges, Air
Command and Staff College and Squadron Officer School;
-- Aviation Leadership Program (one student pilot in training
in 2008, one to be offered in 2009);
-- USAF Academy (TNI AF had been invited to send candidates
in 2008, 2009);
-- USAF Military Personnel Exchange Program (a C-130
maintenance officer in 2010, possible C-130 pilot exchange in
2013);
-- bilateral exercises (COPE INDUSA), one per year; and,
-- bi-annual Pacific Airlift Rally (which Indonesia hosted in
August 2007).
The long-term go

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/...LhemtSbqg-EfEJVfaEy1z4VoC70nlTh0ALWMCqpa7kxzU

A decade old Wikileaks paper from 2008/2009 on Indonesia; certain interesting points to see such as future Indonesia position in line for Joint Strike Fighter aka F-35 acquisition and future participation in Exercise Red Flag

 

[Raduga]

B. JAKARTA 2725
Classified By: Pol/C Joseph Legend Novak, reasons 1.4 (b+d).
1. (C) SUMMARY: U.S. Air Force Deputy U/S Lemkin told the
Indonesian DefMin on February 15 that the U.S. was prepared
to help Indonesia develop its air capabilities by broadening
bilateral cooperation through sales and upgrades of F-16s and
further training and exercise opportunities. Sudarsono said
he would review the ideas. He acknowledged the quality and
cost-effectiveness of U.S. equipment, but noted tight
budgetary priorities and said airlift would take priority
over fighters. END SUMMARY.
BUILDING CAPABILITIES
2. (C) In their February 15 meeting, Deputy Under Secretary
Bruce Lemkin told Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono that the
purpose of his visit was to present a wide range of medium-
and long-term cooperation opportunities with the Indonesian
Air Force. His visit had strong interagency support in
Washington. The United States was interested in working with
Indonesia as a partner to help Indonesia meet its defense
requirements and to build a strong bilateral relationship.
Indonesian needs seemed to include assistance combating
piracy and illegal commercial activities, etc., and
assistance building capabilities in humanitarian assistance
and disaster relief. Interoperability was an added benefit
which would flow from cooperation.
3. (C) Continuing, Lemkin noted that U.S. equipment was
superior to that of other suppliers in quality and in the
support and maintenance packages that ensured sustainability
over many years. Since the lifting of sanctions two years
ago, the USG had helped Indonesia recover F-16 engines from
Singapore and obtain C-130 spare parts from Australia, to
name two examples, and had allocated $16 million in Foreign
Military Financing (FMF) assistance to provide for a program
of depot maintenance.
EQUIPMENT RECOMMENDATIONS: F-16, C-130, AT-6
4. (C) Lemkin discussed several U.S. products, including:
-- F-16s: purchase of new models would give Indonesia the
same model that the United States used to protect its own
security, while mid-life upgrades of older Indonesian F-16s
could augment that capability in the medium term at reduced
cost; the F-16s would place Indonesia in line to acquire the
Joint-Strike Fighter in the future. (Reftels detail the F-16
deals under consideration.)
-- Airlift: the C-130J offered state-of-the-art
civil-military use and was proving to be extremely popular,
with orders from at least 30 countries, including some which
had not previously purchased U.S. equipment. It would
therefore offer economies of scale in pricing and servicing.
The C-27J was also available for joint cargo use.
-- AT-6: A central component of USAF and USN fleets, the
turboprop could replace Indonesia's grounded U.S.-made OV-10
light-attack fleet to enhance national air sovereignty and
perform search-and-rescue missions; U.S. and allies' orders
totaled over 1000, and the plane would be supported until at
least 2050.
TRAINING, EXCHANGE, EXERCISE OPPORTUNITIES
5. (C) Lemkin noted that Indonesia planned to participate in
the Global Hawk Capabilities Forum in Honolulu, Hawaii, in
April 2008, which would analyze information provided from
actual Global Hawk flights. Other training, exchange and
exercise opportunities which Lemkin outlined included:
JAKARTA 00000325 002 OF 003
-- Air Operations Center Development, through education,
training and systems;
-- exchange of students to respective air war colleges, Air
Command and Staff College and Squadron Officer School;
-- Aviation Leadership Program (one student pilot in training
in 2008, one to be offered in 2009);
-- USAF Academy (TNI AF had been invited to send candidates
in 2008, 2009);
-- USAF Military Personnel Exchange Program (a C-130
maintenance officer in 2010, possible C-130 pilot exchange in
2013);
-- bilateral exercises (COPE INDUSA), one per year; and,
-- bi-annual Pacific Airlift Rally (which Indonesia hosted in
August 2007).
The long-term go

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/...LhemtSbqg-EfEJVfaEy1z4VoC70nlTh0ALWMCqpa7kxzU

A decade old Wikileaks paper from 2008/2009 on Indonesia; certain interesting points to see such as future Indonesia position in line for Joint Strike Fighter aka F-35 acquisition and future participation in Exercise Red Flag

chance are very slim

 

[Nike]

chance are very slim

No, they still urge us to increase our defense spending and joint their several strategic partnership programme

 

[HellFireIndo]

B. JAKARTA 2725
Classified By: Pol/C Joseph Legend Novak, reasons 1.4 (b+d).
1. (C) SUMMARY: U.S. Air Force Deputy U/S Lemkin told the
Indonesian DefMin on February 15 that the U.S. was prepared
to help Indonesia develop its air capabilities by broadening
bilateral cooperation through sales and upgrades of F-16s and
further training and exercise opportunities. Sudarsono said
he would review the ideas. He acknowledged the quality and
cost-effectiveness of U.S. equipment, but noted tight
budgetary priorities and said airlift would take priority
over fighters. END SUMMARY.
BUILDING CAPABILITIES
2. (C) In their February 15 meeting, Deputy Under Secretary
Bruce Lemkin told Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono that the
purpose of his visit was to present a wide range of medium-
and long-term cooperation opportunities with the Indonesian
Air Force. His visit had strong interagency support in
Washington. The United States was interested in working with
Indonesia as a partner to help Indonesia meet its defense
requirements and to build a strong bilateral relationship.
Indonesian needs seemed to include assistance combating
piracy and illegal commercial activities, etc., and
assistance building capabilities in humanitarian assistance
and disaster relief. Interoperability was an added benefit
which would flow from cooperation.
3. (C) Continuing, Lemkin noted that U.S. equipment was
superior to that of other suppliers in quality and in the
support and maintenance packages that ensured sustainability
over many years. Since the lifting of sanctions two years
ago, the USG had helped Indonesia recover F-16 engines from
Singapore and obtain C-130 spare parts from Australia, to
name two examples, and had allocated $16 million in Foreign
Military Financing (FMF) assistance to provide for a program
of depot maintenance.
EQUIPMENT RECOMMENDATIONS: F-16, C-130, AT-6
4. (C) Lemkin discussed several U.S. products, including:
-- F-16s: purchase of new models would give Indonesia the
same model that the United States used to protect its own
security, while mid-life upgrades of older Indonesian F-16s
could augment that capability in the medium term at reduced
cost; the F-16s would place Indonesia in line to acquire the
Joint-Strike Fighter in the future. (Reftels detail the F-16
deals under consideration.)
-- Airlift: the C-130J offered state-of-the-art
civil-military use and was proving to be extremely popular,
with orders from at least 30 countries, including some which
had not previously purchased U.S. equipment. It would
therefore offer economies of scale in pricing and servicing.
The C-27J was also available for joint cargo use.
-- AT-6: A central component of USAF and USN fleets, the
turboprop could replace Indonesia's grounded U.S.-made OV-10
light-attack fleet to enhance national air sovereignty and
perform search-and-rescue missions; U.S. and allies' orders
totaled over 1000, and the plane would be supported until at
least 2050.
TRAINING, EXCHANGE, EXERCISE OPPORTUNITIES
5. (C) Lemkin noted that Indonesia planned to participate in
the Global Hawk Capabilities Forum in Honolulu, Hawaii, in
April 2008, which would analyze information provided from
actual Global Hawk flights. Other training, exchange and
exercise opportunities which Lemkin outlined included:
JAKARTA 00000325 002 OF 003
-- Air Operations Center Development, through education,
training and systems;
-- exchange of students to respective air war colleges, Air
Command and Staff College and Squadron Officer School;
-- Aviation Leadership Program (one student pilot in training
in 2008, one to be offered in 2009);
-- USAF Academy (TNI AF had been invited to send candidates
in 2008, 2009);
-- USAF Military Personnel Exchange Program (a C-130
maintenance officer in 2010, possible C-130 pilot exchange in
2013);
-- bilateral exercises (COPE INDUSA), one per year; and,
-- bi-annual Pacific Airlift Rally (which Indonesia hosted in
August 2007).
The long-term go

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/...LhemtSbqg-EfEJVfaEy1z4VoC70nlTh0ALWMCqpa7kxzU

A decade old Wikileaks paper from 2008/2009 on Indonesia; certain interesting points to see such as future Indonesia position in line for Joint Strike Fighter aka F-35 acquisition and future participation in Exercise Red Flag

F-16V is probably the best deal in the long run, especially if it could help the KFX/IFX program, US' support in technology and diplomatic backing is the key to ensure it's success. My concern is the recent Bulgarian Viper deal, the cost and the sudden change in the delivered products is outrageous, let's just hope that being in Asia-Pacific could help us getting a better deal from the US. For F-35, i don't know, if they could fix the issues by 2035 and offered full support of it's operation and to update our datalink, maybe we should consider making a serious deal if Lockheed Martin and US Government did offer F-35 to us in the future, to complement the F-16 and KFX/IFX.

 

[sEoulman556]

Video bagus soal pembuatan kapal selam need our South Korean brother member here @sEoulman556

I very much appreciate your thoughtfulness in tagging me but I don't plan on participating on PDF a lot due to time commitments from my job and social life. I could respond to short questions but I won't be able to reply immediately. Terima kasih!!!

 

[Cromwell]

chance are very slim

Well eventually F-35 is meant to replace F-16, F/A-18 & A-10 so as F-16 user we have opportunity to operate F-35 in future, not currently but in future, a decade or even 2 decades from now.

F-16V is probably the best deal in the long run, especially if it could help the KFX/IFX program, US' support in technology and diplomatic backing is the key to ensure it's success. My concern is the recent Bulgarian Viper deal, the cost and the sudden change in the delivered products is outrageous, let's just hope that being in Asia-Pacific could help us getting a better deal from the US. For F-35, i don't know, if they could fix the issues by 2035 and offered full support of it's operation and to update our datalink, maybe we should consider making a serious deal if Lockheed Martin and US Government did offer F-35 to us in the future, to complement the F-16 and KFX/IFX.

Well if not F-16V probably F-16 MLU from AMARC 309th maintenance service Arizona just like 24 F-16 C/D from Peace Bima Sena II 2012. You can check the whole 54 pages in f-16.net ( US storage section ) on relatively not too old & decent enough Block 25, Block 30 and even occasionally Block 40

 

[Cromwell]

Offset from 1986 Peace Bima Sena I to backthen IPTN. Airframe components of F-16 IPTN manufactured.

 

[barjo]

Since the Iver still hot stuff
I found an old pict in my folder, is the first time Iver build back years ago.. Considered don't be confuse with the title, because of the reuse some weapons from previous ship (corvette Niels Juel) they still called as corvette but in the second page they refers it as new class of frigate

 

[Cromwell]

Since the Iver still hot stuff
I found an old pict in my folder, is the first time Iver build back years ago.. Considered don't be confuse with the title, because of the reuse some weapons from previous ship (corvette Niels Juel) they still called as corvette but in the second page they refers it as new class of frigate

I wonder myself how back in 2012 we got ourself in such a bad contract with Damen Schelde. I mean look, the scope of work were just 4%, what do we learn by 4% ? Our involvement was simply on labour force, no further. Project managements, supervisions were all handled by direct Dutch supervisors and rumour spoke that our naval engineers were given only lectures and seminar like class instead of " learning by doing " the way South Korean provided us. I'm sceptical that we could build ALONE combatant surface vessel beyond OPV, OPV is a basic however when it comes to corvette with all complex subsystems and to integrate them all coherent under 1 platform, we're still far away from that capabillity. That contract with Damen Schelde years ago worth investigated and questionable to me.

 

[barjo]

I wonder myself how back in 2012 we got ourself in such a bad contract with Damen Schelde. I mean look, the scope of work were just 4%, what do we learn by 4% ? Our involvement was simply on labour force, no further. Project managements, supervisions were all handled by direct Dutch supervisors and rumour spoke that our naval engineers were given only lectures and seminar like class instead of " learning by doing " the way South Korean provided us. I'm sceptical that we could build ALONE combatant surface vessel beyond OPV, OPV is a basic however when it comes to corvette with all complex subsystems and to integrate them all coherent under 1 platform, we're still far away from that capabillity. That contract with Damen Schelde years ago worth investigated and questionable to me.

Thats involve some high ranking dudes....., i dunno exactly how to explain, maybe some other members have the knowledge

 

[Nike]

I wonder myself how back in 2012 we got ourself in such a bad contract with Damen Schelde. I mean look, the scope of work were just 4%, what do we learn by 4% ? Our involvement was simply on labour force, no further. Project managements, supervisions were all handled by direct Dutch supervisors and rumour spoke that our naval engineers were given only lectures and seminar like class instead of " learning by doing " the way South Korean provided us. I'm sceptical that we could build ALONE combatant surface vessel beyond OPV, OPV is a basic however when it comes to corvette with all complex subsystems and to integrate them all coherent under 1 platform, we're still far away from that capabillity. That contract with Damen Schelde years ago worth investigated and questionable to me.

I would not dwelve too much, look at AW101 issue, still hold not much progress till now. Meanwhile we are badmouthing the Korean but overlook the PKR issues, eventhough we already capable to build LPD after learning from South Korean and even compete against them at International bidding contest fairly. I am support for coorperation with the Korean and US

 

[barjo]

I would not dwelve too much, look at AW101 issue, still hold not much progress till now. Meanwhile we are badmouthing the Korean but overlook the PKR issues, eventhough we already capable to build LPD after learning from South Korean and even compete against them at International bidding contest fairly. I am support for coorperation with the Korean and US

But atleast we can affoid total brain wash here sis, all the fans boy from FB, and others military fans blog atleast have some education, not just talking false number of hardware, buying spree, or just be a blind fans of something and worst a troll wanna be, without knowing anything behind them