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Israel Hijacks Aid cargo, executes hostages - Pak journo, Talat Hussain taken hostage

Some Pakistani made this comment on another website, it warrants a ear.



:lol:

It does but also overlooks the point that three Pakistani citizens were on the same ship. Pakistan's mess internally does not mean that on the diplomatic front Pakistan should take a back seat.
 
lol, even some Israelis are against such acts, but Indians are down with that, when it comes to Israel they shut there eyes, how absurd
 
He got a point...............whats there to laugh:what::what:

Currently Pakistan should look into its internal affairs ............and progress ..............and day will come when world will take notice

If one sees a wrong, one should try to correct it with his hands. If not possible then one should try to speak out against it. And even if that becomes untenable, then one should condemn it in their hearts. I think Pakistanis at the least can condemn what they see as a wrong and we are not alone in this. The opinion around the world in markedly against Israel on this one.
 
The proof is that none of the Israelis is dead. Which means that the other side did not use deadly force. Yes banged up the Israeli commandos were, but none died or got gravely injured. The response was excessive.

For those Indians here acting more Catholic than the Pope, take a read from Haretz:



ANALYSIS / Israel has forgotten the lessons of the Exodus
Israel played into Hamas' hands by storming the boats of the 'Freedom Flotilla.'
By Yossi Melman Tags: Israel news Gaza flotilla

Despite having its eyes wide open, Israel fell into a trap. Israel knew that the organizers of the flotilla wanted to present the Israel Defense Forces to the world as an army that does not hesitate to use force. The flotilla organizers wanted deaths, casualties, blood and billows of smoke. And this is exactly what Israel gave them.

Every child knows that the conflict here is one of consciousness,images, emotion and gut-feelings; not one of justice or logic. Therefore, Israel should have acted differently.

Israel's decision-makers should have revived memories of Israel's own history. It shows just how short a historical memory the prime minister, defense minister, chief of staff, and Navy commander all have. They don't remember the story of the Exodus ship in 1947.

The British Mandate authorities imposed a blockade on the shores ofthe land of Israel and Jewish leaders believed it was their right and their duty to break it. The Jewish immigrants on the Exodus decided to forcefully oppose every attempt to stop them. The Jewish leadership wanted to arouse the world's conscience and gain a victory in the
battle for international sympathy.


In our day, Hamas leaders believe and act similarly. Without getting into the question of the justification or logic of the blockade imposed by Gaza and its residents, it was indeed clear that it was only natural that Hamas would try to break the blockade by force. They have been doing this by means of the smuggling tunnels and via the sea. It was clear that they saw it as their natural right to oppose attempts to stop the ships.

In 1988, when the PLO organized a ship named "The Return" to be sent to Israel with Palestinian refugees, Israel chose a different method to stop it. It sent Mossad agents and Naval commandos to Cyprus to sabotage the ship before the passengers had embarked. The ship was damaged but no one was hurt.

Israel should have considered a similar approach with the Gaza flotilla. But apparently the days in which Israeli agents could operate freely in friendly countries are gone.

There was another possibility. During Ehud Olmert's term as prime minister, Israel permitted a lone aid ship, filled with supplies and activists, to enter Gaza. The skies did not fall on Israel in the wake of this.

The Israeli government could have acted similarly this time. No disaster would have occurred. The boats would have landed, the supplies would have been unloaded and the activists would have disembarked.

So what? You may argue that this would have set a precedent. But I argue that if Hamas had tried to do the same thing again in the future, Israel would still have had the ability to
operate differently and outsmart Hamas.

As a last resort, it would also have been possible to simply sabotage the motors of the boats, halting their voyage without having to seize control of the ships. Instead of this, the Israeli government preferred to take control of the ships by force.

Apparently Israel, which prides itself as having the best intelligence in the world, should have known better that there were violent elements aboard one of the boats, equipped iron bars, knifes and slingshots. Had Israel known this, it would have probably used more appropriate ways to storm boat, to avoid death and injuries. And that did not happen.

Israel has played into Hamas' hands. It's not the fault of the young soldiers who obeyed the orders of their commanders. The responsibility lies with the cabinet and the military planners.

No matter how one looks at the conduct of the Israeli government and the IDF, it is hard to understand how stupid and tragic it was. Time and again, Israel tries to prove that what can't be solved by force can be solved by more force. Over and over, the policies of force fail. The problem is that with each failure, the part of the world in which we would like to belong is losing patience with us.

ANALYSIS / Israel has forgotten the lessons of the Exodus - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

****

As I have said above to the Indian geniuses, any which way you look at this, it is a screw-up and an indefensible act.

This is logic. Not fact.
Give me the situation that happened on the boat. Give me why the solders opened fire. Give me IF FOR SURE the civilians attacked first or not.

Why post other un needed things?

:angel:

During an investigation, the officials won't care the scenario you put up. That 0 Commandos died.
 
lol, even some Israelis are against such acts, but Indians are down with that, when it comes to Israel they shut there eyes, how absurd

It matters little what Indians think in this context. The world opinion is markedly against the Israeli tactics. Attempts by some to defend the Israeli act by using lame excuses matters little but because these forums allow such dissent, I guess its fine.
 
Barney Frank: 'As A Jew' I'm 'Ashamed' Over Treatment Of Palestinians

JERUSALEM -- Israel on Wednesday began deporting the bulk of nearly 700 international activists detained during its deadly raid on an aid flotilla bound for Palestinians in the blockaded, Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

The raid that ended with Israeli soldiers killing nine activists has strained diplomatic ties, sending Israeli relations with Turkey, in particular, to a new low. At least four of the nine killed were Turkish and the ship Israel attacked was Turkish. Israel ordered families of its diplomats out of that country a day after Turkey branded the raid a "massacre."

Israel also faces significant new levels of criticism within in the United States. In an interview with the Boston Herald, Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) said that that "'as a Jew,' Israeli treatment of Arabs around some of the West Bank settlements 'makes me ashamed that there would be Jews that would engage in that kind of victimization of a minority.'"

Frank said, "Once you have a combat situation and innocent people die, I mean, you know, look at our problems in Afghanistan, and we have an obligation to try and avoid it." In defense of Israel, Frank added there are people "howling for Israel to pay a price that don't seem disturbed that North Koreans killed 46 South Koreans by torpedoing a South Korean boat. I think we have a right to ask for some consistency."

Egypt eased its blockade of Gaza after the raid and at the newly opened crossing in the border town of Rafah, about 300 Palestinians entered through Gaza's main gateway to the outside world. A smaller number entered Gaza from Egypt and humanitarian aid also came in including blankets, tents and 13 power generators donated by Russia and Oman.

Magdi al-Titer, a 31-year-old Palestinian among those crossing into Egypt, said he lost his right leg during Israel's brief war with Gaza that ended in January 2009.

"I have come with a medical report to get fitted with an artificial leg in Egypt," he said.

Israel has come under harsh international condemnation after naval commandos stormed the flotilla in international waters on Monday, setting off the deadly clashes. Israel says its soldiers opened fire only after being attacked by angry activists, who said they were trying to breach the blockade of Gaza to bring in aid.

Gaza has been under an Israeli and Egyptian blockade since 2007. Egypt's opening of the border was believed to be temporary, although the government did not say how long it would last.

A corrections official said Israel is aiming to deport all the foreign activists by the end of the day. But there is a possibility some could be held in custody on suspicion of violence against Israeli troops.

Some 400 activists, most of them Turkish citizens, were bused to Israel's international airport for flights home by midday Wednesday.

Corrections department spokesman Yaron Zamir said the Turkish activists would board planes Turkey had sent to pick them up. Greece also had an aircraft on standby there to pick up its activists.

An additional 124 activists from a dozen Muslim nations without diplomatic relations with Israel were deported to Jordan before sunrise. About 100 foreigners remained in a prison in southern Israel by midday, Zamir said.

Several of the activists deported to Jordan told The Associated Press that they were deprived of food, water, sleep and access to toilets in Israeli detention.

"The Israelis roughed up and humiliated all of us - women, men and children," said Kuwaiti lawmaker Walid al-Tabtabai, who was on board one of the ships with other activists from Muslim countries.

"They were brutal and arrogant, but our message reached every corner of the world that the blockade on Gaza is unfair and should be lifted immediately," he added. The lawmaker claimed there "was not a single weapon with the passengers aboard all the ships."

Israel claimed some of the passengers attacked commandos with knives, iron rods, sticks and with two pistols wrested from soldiers.

Video released by the Israeli military showed commandos attacked by angry activists with metal rods and firebombs during the raid. One soldier was thrown off one deck onto another below, and Israeli authorities said its troops were attacked by knives, clubs and live fire from the two pistols wrested from soldiers.

Israeli defense officials have also said, without providing proof, that night vision goggles, gas masks, flak jackets and thousands of dollars were found on the ship, suggesting the possibility that some mercenaries were on board.

Israeli media reported Wednesday that the foreign ministry ordered the families of its diplomats in Turkey to leave that country because of the uproar there over the raid. The diplomatic mission itself would remain in Turkey, said Israel Radio and other stations and newspapers. The ministry would neither confirm nor deny the reports.

The fallout also expanded far from the region's borders. Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said Nicaragua is suspending - though not severing - diplomatic ties with Israel over the raid.

While many Israelis were critical of the way the raid was executed, the overwhelming reaction backed the soldiers' response and supported the Gaza blockade. Israelis have little empathy for the plight of Palestinians in Gaza because militants used the territory to send thousands of rockets and mortars crashing into Israel for years.

The flotilla was meant to draw attention to the Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza, imposed after Hamas militants violently seized power in June 2007. Israel says the blockade is needed to prevent Hamas, which has fired thousands of rockets into the Jewish state, from building up its arsenal. Critics say the closure has failed to hurt Hamas but has damaged Gaza's already weak economy.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton supported a U.N. Security Council statement that condemned the "acts" that cost the lives of the pro-Palestinian activists off the Gaza coast. But U.S. officials did not say whether they blamed Israel or the activists for the bloodshed.

Israel has promised to halt a new attempt by pro-Palestinian groups to sail two more ships to Gaza's shores within the next few days.

Despite the widespread outcry over the violent sea raid, the Palestinians were resuming indirect peace talks with Israel later Wednesday, through U.S. envoy George Mitchell. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was to meet Mitchell at his headquarters in the West Bank town of Ramallah.
 
This is logic. Not fact.
Give me the situation that happened on the boat. Give me why the solders opened fire. Give me IF FOR SURE the civilians attacked first or not.

Why post other un needed things?

:angel:

During an investigation, the officials won't care the scenario you put up. That 0 Commandos died.

Why don't you dig it up yourself since you are such a stickler for truth (nothing that comes across to you will convince you since you are pre-disposed to looking over what the world is saying and seeing).

I certainly could care less what the Israeli officials would care about since its not about that. Your logic is devoid of the basics of the law. If the Israelis board a ship illegally, the crew and passengers have the right to stop them. This is the same right that is exercised by the International community in the International waters off Somalia's coast.
If the Israel's elite commandos did not want their ***** beaten with rods and thrown overboard, they should have stayed off the boat since they had no legal right to get on it. This is the basic fact and one you and your buddies keep on ignoring, instead putting up silly arguments about "show me proof the civilians attacked the pirates in uniform".

This is my view and I am sticking by it. You are free to do the same.
 
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Why don't you dig it up yourself since you are such a stickler truth.

There was none ;)
The only truth i found was the video from the IDF commandos.

I trust the solid proof more than what the idiots on board had to say.

I certainly could care less what the Israeli officials would care about since its not about that.

Not Israeli officials. The Investigation that's going on by EU.
 
"They were brutal and arrogant, but our message reached every corner of the world that the blockade on Gaza is unfair and should be lifted immediately," he added. The lawmaker claimed there "was not a single weapon with the passengers aboard all the ships."

Israel claimed some of the passengers attacked commandos with knives, iron rods, sticks and with two pistols wrested from soldiers.

Video released by the Israeli military showed commandos attacked by angry activists with metal rods and firebombs during the raid. One soldier was thrown off one deck onto another below, and Israeli authorities said its troops were attacked by knives, clubs and live fire from the two pistols wrested from soldiers.

Then that doesn't make sense to these people?

Israeli defense officials have also said, without providing proof, that night vision goggles, gas masks, flak jackets and thousands of dollars were found on the ship, suggesting the possibility that some mercenaries were on board.[/B]

Are these guys idiots, read the previous sentence. Your proof IS that video.
Also, what proof do you have that these people were attacked first without provokation and there were no weapons on the ship?
Ship's still in the hands of IDF.
 
This is logic. Not fact.
Give me the situation that happened on the boat. Give me why the solders opened fire. Give me IF FOR SURE the civilians attacked first or not.

Why post other un needed things?

:angel:

During an investigation, the officials won't care the scenario you put up. That 0 Commandos died.
LOL, you tell me one thing, what the hell were soldiers doing there even when the Ship is in International waters not in Israeli waters, for once try to be sane,

nways your opinion doent matters, Turkey wont ask you before attacking Israel:agree:
 
these hindustany lot posting on this site are really something else....

what difference does it make who attacked who first? Attack them with stones, the other side attacks with tank shells. Attack them with sticks, they are met by gunfire

why did they make the switch from rubber bullets to live ammunition? Rubber bullets are easily capable of subduing even the most beliggerant person. Same with bean-bag shells fired by shotguns. Even a paintgun can sting a lot if you are hit without wearing any bodily protection (which none of the activists were wearing, clearly). If they HAD to exercise the customary brute force on unarmed people (which the israelis are experts at) --they could have just used tear-gas.


did these ''brave commandos'' consider that they MIGHT just encounter resistance by jumping on their boat and having a threatening posture? What right did they have to go on there?



when it comes to killing people -- men, women, children --- the israelis know what they are doing. They are experts at it.


But they made a deadly mistake by testing the patience of the Turks. Deadly mistake. It will cost them.




as for the humanitarian missions, I hope they continue. The people on those boats, and those organizations are Islamic charity. And more Muslims (and of course non-Muslim pro Palestinian peace activists) should join in and do their part to support the Palestinians --especially those in dire need in Gaza.

and this time, Turkish Navy should send clearly armed frigates to provide escort to these ships.

then we'll see what happens.....israel has no credibility at all. Whatever vestige of sympathy i may have had for them -- its gone now. They are just a nation of murderers and oppresors.
 
Israeli defense officials have also said, without providing proof, that night vision goggles, gas masks, flak jackets and thousands of dollars were found on the ship, suggesting the possibility that some mercenaries were on board.

How do flak jackets and NVG prove that mercenaries were on board? The folks on the ship also have a right to be able to see at night time. Why is it okay for the Israelis to use FLIR to see everything and the other side is expected to be blind at night? The Israelis were the ones who told them that their ships were to be commandeered so they came ready to ensure this did not happen to the best of their abilities. Secondly, thank God that flak jackets were available to people and I hope they wore them otherwise the casualties would be even higher.

These things become sinister if this ship arrived in Israelis waters and tried to do harm to Israeli citizens. This is not the case.
 
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Then that doesn't make sense to these people?



Are these guys idiots, read the previous sentence. Your proof IS that video.
Also, what proof do you have that these people were attacked first without provokation and there were no weapons on the ship?
Ship's still in the hands of IDF.
When some intruders barge in to your room, you will welcome them or watch them or you will attack them from anything you find first??:what:
 
That is just the basic stuff. There is no infrastructure building materials going in whatsoever. Schools, buildings, hospitals are all falling into disrepair. The UNHCR has been pleading with the Israelis for this stuff to come across with guarantees that it won't be used for any military application to no avail.
 

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