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JF-17 Thunder in touble ?

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China has no other country other than russia willing to provide advanced military tech.
And russians know it.

So Russians can take certain liberties with china which they cant take with india or they seriously risk loosing indian defence orders ...

Think it over... will any country sell to the chinese ..hovercrafts ,carrier aircraft , bombers , ASW systems ,attack helis and other advanced stuff other than russia....??

The answer is clearly a no

and china desperately needs this stuff when Taiwan declares independence..

lastly even if china cringes at the fact that russians wont allow reexport of Rd-33 engines...they cant do nothing abt it... frankly they have no other alternative.

Your underestamating China, Isreal is a potential tech house it has provided the chinese with the X-35 design and by doing this Isreal has been thrown out of the joint venture with the USA. Frankly the Jet engine can be developed easily by two counteries if India provokes, and some how in their wildest dreams blockades the Jet engine from Russia. China and Pakistan will not be a happy bunny, and If both counteries JOINTLY DEVELOP a Jet engine then it will be a much more bigger problem for India because, pakistan would have the capability to create Jet engines and design aircrafts the drag India would have even more worse ties with China and Pakistan and in the end India wont be happy bunny.
 
Hovercraft:although there are Russian meteor 2000 in service, China doesn't have to buy from abroad,Jiangnan has been producing hovercreafts for years.

Copter: WZ-9 and WZ-10 are developed by Shenyang Aviation Industry Corp.(SAC),besides we do have copters from France,Italy and South Africa. the world is not in ideal,neither is the embargo.

AC: China doesn't have any carrier by now,and never plan to buy one. in 1995France offered to donate its old Clemenceau subject to selling their radar and communication system.China then,not being in mood of carrier seeking, refused the French proposal. the Clemenceau,later on,underwent a miserable retirement.

Every nation has both advantage and weakness in military force and R&D,and I think it'll be much more promising for a doer rather than a talker.
 
well that begs the questions,if WS-10 is a mirror of RD-93,why take so long to use it on JF-17? There seems to be quite a number of JF-17 prototypes,why not use WS-10 on atleast one prototype?

I would assume WS-10 has the same size and possible thrust ratings as RD-93 given Russian invlvement,but other things like weigth and MTBF must be troubling point.

But then I cant say for sure if RD-93 is passed on as WS-10.

China has recieved the whole lot of the ordered RD-93 for JF-17. As farr I personally think that Russian wont easily allow China to export a aircraft with RD-93. Pakistan may not be a problem for the Russian,but trouble starts if the Chinese starts supplying the Syrians and The Iranians.

Russia is not so stupid to shoot it's own foot.

This doesnt make any sense why are you putting polotics in a engine, if there were any complexities with the RD-93 than both nations would have decided NOTto take it and instead take on a different engine. Assuming there really isnt any problems because Russia couldnt go so low to actually sabotage the project which it cant. :rolleyes: You shouldnt get hyped up about this there is alread a serial production underway and pakistan already has displayed the first pair infront of Pakistan on the 23 March if there were problems than Russian would have promted something againt the batch flown over Pakistan.
 
russian prime minister is coming to Pakistan on wednesday on a three day long visit. any idea about his visit. he is coming after the arrival of two JF-17 with RD-93 engines. why he is coming to Pakistan. any body can answer it? specially those who are against the RD-93 for Pakistan.
 
Pakistan receives reassurance on RD-93 engine acquisition
Pakistan has been told it will encounter "no major problems" in acquiring Russian-built RD-93 engines to power its JF-17 Thunder aircraft, which is being co-developed...
[Jane's Defence Industry - http://jdin.janes.com .
 
minutes of the JF17 programe,
AFTER DEVELOPMENT PHASE!!

Related Stories: Asia - Central, Asia - China, Asia - India, Avionics, Engines - Aircraft, Events, Fighters & Attack, MBDA, New Systems Tech, Northrop-Grumman, Partnerships & Consortia, Russia

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FC-1/ JF-17
(click to view full)Back in January 2007, DID wrote:

“The military world has no shortage of irony. The defense industry has its moments too, as Pakistan just discovered. An aircraft whose development was driven by military sanctions from the US and Europe is now derailed by military sanctions. This leaves the Pakistani Air Force dependent on an alternative from… America. Meanwhile, the Chinese are left with no export launch customer for a plane they may now have to reluctantly buy themselves, instead of the favoured and more capable J-10. Somewhere in Delhi, champagne is pouring – but first, a bit of background.”

The arms market also features no shortage of change. The agreement India thought it had, was reversed by Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin. Now Pakistan has begun to take delivery of the new fighters, and is reportedly seeking additional agreements with Western firms for avionics and weapons upgrades. In addition, a joint marketing agency has been set up in conjunction with China…

The JF-17 Thunder, aka. FC-1 Fierce Dragon
Stuck in Sichuan: The Saga
Updates and Key Events [updated]
The JF-17 Thunder, aka. FC-1 Fierce Dragon


Chinese J-7E
(click to view full)The JF-17/FC-1 is a sub-$20 million fighter designed as a co-operative venture between Pakistan and China to replace F-7P (MiG-21+) and Mirage 3/5 aircraft in Pakistan’s fleet. China also has options to produce them, but has made no firm decisions and seems unenthusiastic. It’s a comparable peer for India’s still-under-development LCA Tejas, Taiwan’s ****-1 Ching Kuo fighters, and South Korea’s T/A-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer & light fighter.

Sino Defense reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 ‘Xiaolong’ has a long history. The site recalls that China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman in 1986 to modernise its J-7 fighter (MiG-21 copy) under the “Super-7” upgrade project, with US and British firms competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was canceled after the Tienanmen Square massacre, but Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation managed to continue the programme with its own resources, and the project was re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1). US sanctions related to Pakistan’s nuclear program and Chinese-Pakistani use of ballistic missile components led Pakistan to seek helps from its Chinese ally. A joint development and production agreement was signed in June 1999, with China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan each contributing 50% of the estimated $150 million development costs.

Stuck in Sichuan: The Saga


PAF F-16A drops Mk.82s
(click to view full)The Pakistan Government had hoped to sign a deal to acquire 150 JF-17/FC-1 fighters in 2007, with 8 aircraft in service by year’s end. China had reportedly even bought 100 Klimov RD-93 engines from Russia for installing on JF-17s, with an option to contract for another 400 engines.

In January 2007, however, Forecast International reported that Russia had just refused permission for the transfer of its RD-93 engines, derived from the RD-33 that equips the MiG-29. According to FI the decision came only a few days after a visit to India by Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, during which a number of joint defense projects were discussed and agreements were signed. These include the MRTA transport aircraft, and reportedly a “5th generation fighter” project, even as the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35 is touted as the likely winner of the multi-billion MRCA fighter contract.

Coincidence? Didn’t look like it. Replacement with another engine? Unless it’s a very close copy, that requires re-work of the entire fighter design and takes years. Just ask the Chinese J-10 project team.

As it turned out, however, that wasn’t necessary. Russia authorized re-export of the RD-93 engines, in an announcement that caught even India’s diplomats by surprise.

Updates and Key Events


Lift-off?
(click to view full)April 11/08: Jane’s Defence Weekly reports that:

“Pakistan and China have established a joint marketing organisation to promote international sales of their JF-17 ‘Thunder’ fighter aircraft, the head of the main Pakistani arms export agency has told Jane’s. Major General Muhammad Farooq, director general of Pakistan’s Defence Export Promotion Organisation (DEPO), described the JF-17 in early April as an ideal “choice for countries which are mindful of their finances.”

March 19/08: An article in Pakistan Defence claims that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) now has 8 JF-17 Thunder aircraft, after 6 more planes were recieved this March. All 8 will be used for testing testing and evaluation; the aircraft hasn’t been formally inducted into service yet.

Serial production has begun, and Pakistan’s Air Cheif Marshal reportedly said that about 60% of the airframe and 80% of the avionics would be manufactured in Pakistan by 2010, with production capacity rising to 25 aircraft per year by 2011. If true, it seems likely that deals with significant industrial offsets may be in the cards, as the article also claims that negotiations have begun with British, Italian, and French defence firms over potential avionics and other systems; France has reportedly offered its RC-400 radar and MBDA MICA missile.

Finally, the article claims that that:

“Thirteen countries have so far expressed interest in purchasing the JF-17 aircraft are Azerbaijan, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Sudan.”

Jan 22/08: According to India Defence, Pakistan’s national TV reports that it has begun in-country manufacturing of the JF-17 fighter. About half of the on-board equipment and avionics will be manufactured in Kamra, Pakistan, with the rest coming from China.

PakAF Chief of Air Staff Ahmed reportedly committed to 15 aircraft built in 2008 and 20 in 2009, with the goal of building 25-30 per year.

Nov 13/07: Jane’s Defense Weekly quotes Pakistani Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed as saying that the Pakistan Air Force will have an operational capability with JF-17 Thunder light fighter aircraft by the end of 2008, and expects to have its first 8 aircraft under a “small batch order” within the next few months.

“Speaking to Jane’s at the Dubai Air Show on 12 November, ACM Ahmed dismissed concerns over the Russian RD-93 engine that powers the joint Sino-Pakistan aircraft as “an issue created from here and there.”

April 26/07: India may need to hold that champagne, in the wake of recent reports. India Defence relays a report from the Russian newspaper Kommersant, which said that Vladimir Putin himself had personally supervised and signed a “Sino-Russian Fighter Assembly Agreement” which included joint assembly of JF-17 fighter aircraft with RD-93 engines, and their supply to third countries. Kommersant added that:

“This permission will enable the supply of 150 Chinese JF-17 fighter aircrafts to Pakistan, and help implement the contract for the supply of Russian engines worth USD 238 million.”

Kommersant added that “the permission does not imply Pakistan’s inclusion in the list of countries with which Russia has direct military-technical cooperation.” The question is whether Russian military-technical cooperation would be required under the Sino-Russian agreement. Meanwhile, the Indians appear to have been blindsided. The Press Counsellor of the Indian Embassy in Moscow Ramesh Chandra told Kommersant that “the Embassy was not aware” of the permission for re-export. See India Defence article.

March 2007: China delivers a pair of JF-17 fighters equipped with Russian-made RD-93 engines to Pakistan, prompting Indian protests that claim a violation of the end-user agreement between Russia and China.
 
^^old news!
the program is progressing right on schedule with the 16 sqdn re-equipping by mid-2009.
 
source of this article : China-defense.com
This is an old article.Russians are supplying RD-93 DIRECTLY and also establishing repair and overhauling facilities in Pakistan
 
This is an old article.Russians are supplying RD-93 DIRECTLY and also establishing repair and overhauling facilities in Pakistan
this thread was expired in November, 2008 and now useless thread the whole scnerio is now change.
 
holy crap thread from 2006 :o
 
The JF-17's engine is not without controversies. The contract between China and Russia over re-exporting the engines to Pakistan had ran into dispute due to Russian fears that JF-17 may compete against Mig-29 in export markets. However, the supply seems to be smooth without any problems.

According to some reports, Pakistan is set to import the JF-17 Thunder’s RD-93 engine directly from Russia in the near future and China has now issued a ‘no objection certificate’ that allows Pakistan to do business directly with Russia .

The new arrangement was already discussed between Russia and Pakistan late 2014, and smooths the way for Pakistan to lower production costs of its JF-17, which is produced by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra.
 
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