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Jinnah had a dream, and we failed him

Nusli Wadia (Gujarati: નુસ્લી વાડિયા) is an Indian Parsi entrepreneur, a textile magnate and an important person in the real-estate business. He is the son of Neville and Dina Wadia. His mother Dina Wadia is the daughter of Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

so sad to Know that Jinnah Lost a Generation ! :'(
 
Yes and Muslims are being slaughter in India on daily bases can't get education more than 90 % of them live under poverty can't eat many things because of Hindus
My dear we did have some sad incidents may a dozen or so in last 65 years-by both hindu and muslim extrimists.I can show with evidence that there are as much violence from islamic militants as it is from hindutva thugs,if not more.But to say muslims are slaughtered on a daily basis is a pathetic lie.On the other hand there is one south asian country where muslims are slaughtered daily by fellow muslims,and that country was supposed to be the protective base for muslims!Seriosly,dont you feel ashamed of that?Your nation was meant to be a place where muslims could be safe but there is hardly a day without sectarian/ethnic violence in which muslims are killed!
 
Nusli Wadia (Gujarati: નુસ્લી વાડિયા) is an Indian Parsi entrepreneur, a textile magnate and an important person in the real-estate business. He is the son of Neville and Dina Wadia. His mother Dina Wadia is the daughter of Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

so sad to Know that Jinnah Lost a Generation ! :'(

Considering the success jinnahs bloodline holds in india,i wouldn't be so sad.I have once met Mr.Jehangir,great grandson of jinnah.He owns a domestic airline company.
 
Apologies for the delayed response. Work calls!
Jinnah had seen how Hindus had adapted to British Rule and the entire blame for the 1857 War had fallen on muslims.
Not true at all. Infact most of the revolutionaries were Hindus. Mangal Pandey the sepoy who fired the first shot in anger in Meerut was NOT a muslim now, was he? Tatya Tope, Rani Laxmibai of Jansi, the Marathas were not Muslims. The fact that they all rallied their forces under the banner of the last Mughal ruler Bahadur Shah Zafar says a lot about the true nature of the rebellion. Also the fact that some of the muslim rulers sided with the British - Hyderabad, Kashmir, Mysore and surprisingly the Rajputana kingdoms - also says that it was NOT a muslim war. No Muslims were held "responsible" for the 1857 war of Independence. Infact some of the muslim princely states refused to join with the Shite rulers making it into a Shite Sunni thing! But thats for another day, another thread. One of the reasons for the sepoy mutiny which started this whole war was the greasing of the cartridges with porcine fat (which were pulled out of the barrel by one's teeth) - obviously offensive to the Muslim soldiers.

Who ever told you that Muslims were made the 'scapegoat' LIED.
Life for a muslim in India was difficult, prospects for muslims in India were limited as is evident by the lack of Civil and military officers, Businessmen and other qualified men that Pakistan faced after it's creation. The division was never meant to break India, merely create a federation in which Pakistan would be a state like Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Hyderabad, etc. It was the Indian leadership who chose not to entertain these plans. Gandhi and Nehru in June 1946 and Nehru alone in 1954.
Again false. The north west areas were already Muslim majority. That was to be a separate state with some amount of autonomy. But that was not the wish of some of the people who clamored for a separate state altogether created on religious lines -including Jinnah. Jinnah refused the premiership offered. He could have done a lot for the Muslims from that position and yet, refused to take on the responsibility! If only he had some vision.

Btw, the British supported the creation and activities of the Muslim League. It is clearly documented (read the real History, not what is taught in Pakistan) how the British encouraged the ML in their demand for a separate state. Also, many of the princely states under the patronage of the British were Muslim ruled. Eg- Kashmir, Oudh, Hyderabad etc. If the Muslim community were suffering, it was because these rulers were not doing their jobs properly.
For much of it's history and up till the economic reforms, India lagged way behind Pakistan. Up till 2007 Pakistan was the second fastest growing economy in the world and a global economic reformer, I wouldn't count us out that easy. We just had to face a difficult time at this stage in our history, like India faced in the 80s and anyone alive at the time will tell you that India was in pretty dire straits then. Like you overcame your problems, we'll eventually overcome ours.
India's lack of progress was to be blamed on the License Raj - the stifling beuracratic muddle and government interference in the name of controlled economic growth. Good that it failed and good that our Govt opened up our economy. That model was based on the Soviet socialist economy, of which Nehru was a big fan. But from a different perspective, it indeed made our economy self-sustainable to some extent and gave large sops for growth of agricultural and cottage industries! So in that case, India did NOT lag behind Pakistan. Only that the industrial growth was stiffled by the governmental interference.
They are legally non-muslims, though I am personally a critic of this policy(since no other country enforces it), I cannot see how it can be warranted as officially sanctioned discrimination, they have the highest representation of any minority in the Army and the Civil Services, they are a thriving community.
I was of the opinion that Ahmedis were targeted for discrimination. But I have also heard about the Aga Khanis as a vibrant community (I know a few people here who are Aga Kahnis both from India and Pakistan).
The place has no security, period. That's about it. Just tinted windows.
Riots and protesters have a political backing. You would know that. And politicians always have had an agreement with traders not to disturb businesses. Very bad for everyone. Case in point was the city of Surat in Gujarat which remained calm while the rest of the state burned. Vested interests play a major role in maintaining peace.
Oversimplification my friend, you think he just secured a partition and we were done? Find another thing to do? He was not learning to play the guitar, he was making nation from scratch. Pakistan was based on protection for minorities and equal rights for all, muslims had to suffer and knew what suffering felt like. Jinnah wanted to ensure that in Pakistan, minorities would not be faced with such suffering. The speech was meant to be all it said it wanted to be.
That speech was a gem of a speech, I agree. The embodiment of what a true secular democracy should be. But one among many such other speeches. It was not the vision of Jinnah which prompted him to make that speech but rather politics and rivalry with India. And yet Pakistan backtracked from that to claim the apparent title of torchbearer of Islam!

And how is Pakistan based on the protection of minorities when Jinnah himself said that minorities can never be given their due under a majority rule! How did he expect that those sentiments will not be repeated in Pakistan? And then you have these ridiculous blasphemy laws and constitutional amendments which officially discriminate against minorities.

That speech of Jinnah's was not his vision. I believe it was just a political tool for world support and as a shot across the bow against his political rivals in India. That fact that Jinnah did nothing to put into place any apparatus (either establishments, institutions or successors) in Pakistan to see the "vision" of that speech implemented also suggests that he was NOT a true visionary. He was just another politician.

Like I said earlier, unfortunately Pakistan had no visionaries. There arent any still.
Why else would Pakistan offer to accommodate Sikhs, even after the widely publicized massacre of muslim immigrants by the Sikh community? Why would he offer a Sikh the post of the first Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army?
Because he knew how useful Sikhs would really be. For the same reason that many Pakistanis (on these forums atleast) so shamelessly pander to the Sikh community inspite of they opening a can of whoopa$$ in every war we've fought. (pun intended).
 
You can see the same in britain aswell where muslims get the same as hindus & sikhs but instead of teaching there kids & being a responsible minority most of them indulge in raping young girls , terrorist activities & all saughts of crimes

Haha :lol: You're a funny one :disagree: I'm sure some random Indian sitting in Bangalore knows alot more about Pakistanis in Britain than a Pakistani guy in Britain himself :woot:

But, don't that it too hard, i'll take it as a failed troll attempt :coffee:
 
i've already answered in many of my posts about this clueless alphabetical theory that you guys keep on coming up with. the pakistan you made back in 47 does not exist from 71. and that's a fact.

So the UK doesn't exist since the 1930s when the southern half of Ireland decided to secede and become a republic...
The UK is also not gonna exist anymore once/if Scotland secedes from the Union to become a republic aswell (even though 90%+ population will still be there)....
Sudan also no longer exists (according to Indians) become the southern bit seceded to become South Sudan Republic...
I'm guessing this is the extent of Incredible Indian minds :lol: Keep up the good work :enjoy:

Pakistan will keep existing till the day even one man stands on his feet, with flag of the Crescent and Star flying high, mano ya na mano :D :pakistan:
 
Not again! I don't know how many times I have to argue and prove that Jinnah wanted a Islamic State, never wanted a secular country, plenty of evidence for that, anyways, Islamic state is bound to protect the minorities, I agree, we failed Jinnah here, but then again, even the majority is not protected in this corrupt system. I look forward to a better future Insha'ALLAH!
 
So the UK doesn't exist since the 1930s when the southern half of Ireland decided to secede and become a republic...
The UK is also not gonna exist anymore once/if Scotland secedes from the Union to become a republic aswell (even though 90%+ population will still be there)....
Sudan also no longer exists (according to Indians) become the southern bit seceded to become South Sudan Republic...

i have no idea why you are talkin about pakistan's existence. but just to answer it in short- south Sudan did exist as "part of Sudan." it made out of Sudan. there was no "south Sudan" before 2011.
similarly- there was no pakistan before 47. it was part of India.

I'm guessing this is the extent of Incredible Indian minds :lol: Keep up the good work :enjoy:

Pakistan will keep existing till the day even one man stands on his feet, with flag of the Crescent and Star flying high, mano ya na mano :D :pakistan:

pakistan is a reality. when did i dispute that? i'm just disputing this 2 nation theory which doesn't make any sense. it failed first time in 47 when majority Muslims remained with India - and second time when Bangladesh was created. 2 nation theory says that Hindus and Muslims can't stay together- which is nothing but a stupid logic and we Indians proved it by living together. Hindus and Muslims in India always lived together and will live together. this 2 nation theory is a biggest blunder of human history.
 
Glad to hear this. Please also convince the rest of India to forget about Pakistan, it will NEVER merge with India.

Partition was right and should not be undone. I also don't want a land who kept medieval system of Zagirdar, Wadera who keep serfs in their prison to merge with India.

I tell you something which not everyone would say. When I was just a kid, few times I asked to elders, “Why Mr Jinnah demanded partition?” then I was told, “There were many in Congress itself who used to clean their hands after shaking hands with Muslim leaders and Mr Gandhi was also informed about it. so he never found Mr Jinnah very wrong on saying, Muslims won’t get full rights in India.” But I must say, even if Mr Jinnah might be alive right now, he won’t demand for partition that much as he did in 1947. Time has dramatically changed and you would now look differently, not in the same way like how Mr Jinnah found circumstances in a very backward India in 1947. in today's Gandhi's India, there is no law which differentiate among people on the name of religion/ color/ language and a person of any community can become President/ PM/ General/ CM/ top diplomat etc :cheers:

There used to be many times in Australia, I was told by few of my good pakistani friends, “Lebanese have their own colonies in Sydney, and Chinese are so strong that there can’t be any violence against their community, then why can’t we all make a colony of Indian+Pakistani also?” All those Pakistanis were having masters in engineering/ medicines/ MBA degrees similar to Indians but they show more willingness to maintain their identity, as compare to those Indians who generally send their kids to date with different nationals since schooling, like how the Australian society as a whole is. The sense is not to create problems in Australia but to give support to Australian society with the background we bring with us. Otherwise, how becoming part of the flow of whole Australia is advisable if they are heading in wrong direction? It is commonly believed among the Indian origins that either get enough experience and money and shift to India and earn the similar income with foreign degrees and experience, like how many do who came back India during last 3-4 years, in over 100,000s number. Or, they always consider to at least send their kids to India for primary education. How we find a kid studying in Australia worth if he/ she will start having full fun during those early stage of life when they have to be given proper care so that they may think to achieve high education/ character in their life? :undecided:

It is always found that a Pakistani family can be the best friend of an Indian family in US/ West. only religious background is found different, but no difference about the view for life. Like, for example Kazakhstan, over 70% of them are Muslims but it is a free society and growing with high rate for last over 10 years But freedom in lifestyle haven’t affected their ‘competency’ on education side. just have a look on the Russians students who come to Australia, they generally outperform others in classes. the Aussie whites are nothing but shiits in front of Russians in australia if you see suburbs like Redfern just on 1-2 km from that university where almost all of Redfern’s residents are unsure about their family background, their parents have been changing with different so they have over 10-12 fathers, with a big number due to casual sex only. almost none of them have any educational background, hardly class 6th 7th education that’s all. and with that, continuous drugs related crimes with attacks on migrants. Redfern is the first stop from Sydney Central, the first suburb from city, and among very poor, very old houses, and a black listed area. And if you go to new colonies of migrants, very good its because whether its residents are Indian, Chinese or whatever, almost all of them are highly qualified and are among the high income group. salary of highly qualified migrants are more than twice to those locals who work in workshops.

Then here, even if you migrate to Australia, how adopting Australian culture is good for your family if it will take your kids towards hell? And why can’t we have the similar unity among Indians and Pakistanis in Indian sub-continent itself? in Australia, at least you may expect that a Pakistani kid won’t just start dating your kid, this much cultural background their parents gave them but not other western people? Adopting any culture isn’t wrong but it must first prove that it will help India get higher progress, regardless any type of life style, otherwise there would a resistance to Western culture in India also which may take it towards destructions. Whatever the cultural background we adopt, it must first prove good/ worth for the coming generations :tup:. I found a common goal between Indians and Pakistanis, only religion if different while I found Pakistani muslims having very much Indian type mentality. I was surprised to know that Punjabi Pakistanis prefer not to eat beef as they find it low grade food, they mainly eat chicken/ goat or sea food. They generally refuse to eat beef as they think it’s a low grade food. but when I told them that I eat whatever is offered to me in Australia, I never refused if someone offered me any food regardless what. at least a Pakistani in Australia may ask you why I start eating anything someone offer, even by Chinese/ Japanese who eat even liver/ kidney of different animals in parties, as they eat the same in their home countries also. But I found a Pakistani would eat either a good meat or just vegetables.

I found having closeness with Pakistani families is much worth as compare with others. They are equally qualified and fall in similar income group in West like Indians. But yes it is widely believed in India that its Hinduism which has helped the nation provide equal opportunity for its all the nationals, regardless any religion/ language/ colour. It is argued that Hindu majority India will keep the nation maintain equality in India, towards higher success and example of Muslim countries including Pakistan is given to show how bad they are on technology side with continuos violence. A simple question is made, “why for any merge of Pakistan with India if India is on higher success while Pakistan first has to fix its internal problems, including usual riots among different communities. And why to bring all these problems to India?” so, I would advice to make efforts to bring these two nations closure with macroscopic approach. That is, have an approach to come together on all those points where we find we have common goals, with keeping the rest to solve on time to time, as the time will itself guide us :tup:. Land of Pakistan is strategically very valuable, with similarity in culture also. Any conclusion to straight say that we don’t want Pakistan may be a big mistake. For example, if India may become a country like Australia then it is worth having closeness with Pakistani families than others, isn’t it? We would keep having as much closeness with Pakistan that the time we will find it worth having so strategically important land, with similar cultural background people with us, we will have enough opportunity to move towards ‘merge’. If a country like Bangladesh has nothing except over population who are just try to run from there, then on the other hand, there is enough to gain with Pakistan who has Afghanistan on next door giving direct trade link with energy rich Iran and mineral rich Central Asia. Even if Afghanistan is very poor, their population is hardly 30mil with big land, brave people who may work for military and society not habituated of Welfare like West and any development while being with India will be appreciated by Afhgan residents. Saying no to any opportunity is a sign of ‘immatureness’.
While no matter how much I would be abused by Bangladeshi members, do I hesitate to say overly populated Bangladesh is of no worth for India? I straight say it :agree:. But for Pakistan, who also has Sindh of Sindhu Ghati Civilization Indians proud to belong to, think again. I even found many Indians in Australia married to Pakistani Punjabi girls, many of them are not only very good looking and coming with good educational background similar to other migrants, but also, a ‘pretty good cultural background’ they have that you may at least expect them to be with you until you are engaged with them. Which is certainly not expected from Western girls, nope, :no:, they are neither generation of one father/ mother that they have a background to understand what this means, nor they were raised in the way to understand this also. :pop:

According to a 2007 census report, there were as many as 2,765,815 persons of Indian origin living in the United states, constituting 0.9% of the total U.S. population. The median household income for US residents born in India is $91,195 against a $50,740 average for the total population, a recent US survey has revealed. According to the same report, the overall median household income for foreign- born and native US residents is $46,881 and $51,249 respectively.

Indian Americans: The fastest growing and the highest income group

Immigration Debate: Nearly Half Of U.S. Immigrants Work In White-Collar Jobs: STUDY

Immigration Debate: Nearly Half Of U.S. Immigrants Work In White-Collar Jobs: STUDY
 
Pakistanis have failed Jinnah and Pakistan big time! Very true! Pakistan is rated the 10th failed state in the world out of the top 20 failed states for 2014. What an achievement! Pakistan is a failed, terrorist-infested place. As Christopher Hitchens once said, Pakistan is not a country, it's barely a state, it's a construct. Pakistan cannot even stand on its own two feet and is supported by U.S. foreign aid.

Yes, Pakistanis have done wonders developing their "country" since 1947: they've managed to get rated 10th out the top 20 failed states in the world and the place is on foreign-aid life support. Mohammed Ali Jinnah would be bursting with pride to see how the "country" he helped create has been doing since his death in 1948.

I wonder how Pakistan will be rated in the failed-state ratings for 2015. Will it increase in the ratings to the 9th or 8th failed state of the top 20 failed states? In a few years, will Pakistan have failed enough to reach the coveted position of 1st failed state of the top 20 failed states? Time will tell. :pakistan::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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Pakistanis have failed Jinnah and Pakistan big time! Very true! Pakistan is rated the 10th failed state in the world out of the top 20 failed states for 2014. What an achievement! Pakistan is a failed, terrorist-infested place. As Christopher Hitchens once said, Pakistan is not a country, it's barely a state, it's a construct. Pakistan cannot even stand on its own two feet and is supported by U.S. foreign aid.

Yes, Pakistanis have done wonders developing their "country" since 1947: they've managed to get rated 10th out the top 20 failed states in the world and the place is on foreign-aid life support. Mohammed Ali Jinnah would be bursting with pride to see how the "country" he helped create has been doing since his death in 1948.

I wonder how Pakistan will be rated in the failed-state ratings for 2015. Will it increase in the ratings to the 9th or 8th failed state of the top 20 failed states? In a few years, will Pakistan have failed enough to reach the coveted position of 1st failed state of the top 20 failed states? Time will tell. :pakistan::lol: :lol: :lol:
and you are known as the rape capital of the world where 700 million live under the poverty line and openly piss and defecate where ever they please. where women are treated like animals and you still have a caste system..The untouchables etc etc
need I say more tharki bharti?
 

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