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Kaveri-Snecma engine to power AMCA ?

Simple Question to you if LCA is not Indigenous effort of India.. then to which country it belongs?? like JF-17 is tagged belong to China

Atleast, we say JF17 is co-produced. Why don't you say so? When the video I have posted demonstratively shows that LCA is borrowed technology through and through. Attribute it to all the countries. You got the Air-Frame design from the French, the engines from USA, most of the arms from Russians, the Avionics also from the help of Russians and Israelis.

What did your Engineers did for over 30+ years to develop this "Indigenous" marvel, which can not even pull 6g? Over budge, not delivered on time, over weight compare to actual design, can not have the angel of attack as per your IAF requirements, can not pull the g force requirement of your IAF.

So what are you really proud of exactly? And how foolish to compare it with any aircraft of the world? When this project is abject failure from every angle according to your own Airforce, it does not fulfill their requirements.

I just want to hammer home this point, stop boosting, be realistic. It is no harm being patriotic, but don't lie and accept the correct point of view and evidence which shows the reality.

You know your DRDO and other departments are useless, things they produced malfunctioned, over budget, overweight, do not meet your defense requirements.

Your missiles are useless according to your own media. Even your Atomic explosion was a failure according to your own scientist. List goes on and on. But surprisingly you still don't get it. What can I say?:tongue:
 
Atleast, we say JF17 is co-produced. Why don't you say so? When the video I have posted demonstratively shows that LCA is borrowed technology through and through. Attribute it to all the countries. You got the Air-Frame design from the French, the engines from USA, most of the arms from Russians, the Avionics also from the help of Russians and Israelis.

What did your Engineers did for over 30+ years to develop this "Indigenous" marvel, which can not even pull 6g? Over budge, not delivered on time, over weight compare to actual design, can not have the angel of attack as per your IAF requirements, can not pull the g force requirement of your IAF.

So what are you really proud of exactly? And how foolish to compare it with any aircraft of the world? When this project is abject failure from every angle according to your own Airforce, it does not fulfill their requirements.

I just want to hammer home this point, stop boosting, be realistic. It is no harm being patriotic, but don't lie and accept the correct point of view and evidence which shows the reality.

You know your DRDO and other departments are useless, things they produced malfunctioned, over budget, overweight, do not meet your defense requirements.

Your missiles are useless according to your own media. Even your Atomic explosion was a failure according to your own scientist. List goes on and on. But surprisingly you still don't get it. What can I say?:tongue:

Give me a simple answer.. which company/country claims LCA has there product... give me a crisp answer.. i dont want you to give me any lame explanation or dig the history...

when you answer this one .. i guess you understand LCA is indegeneous or not..

And for JF-17 .. search the entire google.. it belongs to Chengdu...
 
:bounce:
Give me a simple answer.. which company/country claims LCA has there product... give me a crisp answer.. i dont want you to give me any lame explanation or dig the history...

when you answer this one .. i guess you understand LCA is indegeneous or not..

And for JF-17 .. search the entire google.. it belongs to Chengdu...

Whoever did the design should be given the honors. So you tell me who design it?:bounce:
But whatever it is , it ain't indigenous, nothing India DRDO produced is.:cheesy:
 
:bounce:

Whoever did the design should be given the honors. So you tell me who design it?:bounce:
But whatever it is , it ain't indigenous, nothing India DRDO produced is.:cheesy:

oke let me answer you ... LCA belongs to HAL/ADA ... No other country claims it as its own product..... not sure how you people twist facts or reality...
 
I just love Indian enthusiasm to call everything “indigenous” like failed LCA, and Kaveri engines, now tvsram has announced pronto the slogan of “indigenous” product. But he conveniently forgotten what his colleague sudhir007 actually produced;



French wanted specific commitment. So the real work is done by the French, Indians are just tagging along as they did with the Russians for years.

I know, I know, it is indigenous, what is the input of French in scheme of things? Nope it is indigenous all right!!!!

But question remains, if Indians were so advanced why didn’t they sort out the Kaveri problems themselves?

Considering Sudhir007 post also had this gem in it;



So why was Kaveri de-link from LCA? We all know about it, so I wouldn’t waste my time on it. F-404IN was selected after rejection of Kaveri. Some optimism, you guys got.

And the best part is hidden in this paragraph.



We all know what happened to LCA project and how long it took this project to complete and still not fully inducted. What great news, same fate awaiting for AMCA.:bounce:

I don't think AMCA will take as long. Maybe only half as long. But the question is when will it get started. I really don't think it will seriously get started until India get a hold of FGFA and study it for a few year. After that, my bet is that it should be ready in 15 years. So if India receive the FGFA in 2020. This plane should be ready in 2035.
 
That's a joke.The design work har already been started and first prototype will come by 2018 or so and induction by 2022.
 
oke let me answer you ... LCA belongs to HAL/ADA ... No other country claims it as its own product..... not sure how you people twist facts or reality...

same as F-2 belongs to Japanese Mitsubishi, not Lockheed Martin's, even everyone knows its an enlarged copy of F-16. the whole point what crankthatskunk was making is when LCA incoporates various parts directly imported from foreign countries, like the FBW, radar, avionics, weapons, airframes, engines and ect were not domestically developed you cant lable LCA as indigenous.

in the case of F-2, japanese did a good job to domestically developed its radar and some weapon systems`
 
same as F-2 belongs to Japanese Mitsubishi, not Lockheed Martin's, even everyone knows its an enlarged copy of F-16. the whole point what crankthatskunk was making is when LCA incoporates various parts directly imported from foreign countries, like the FBW, radar, avionics, weapons, airframes, engines and ect were not domestically developed you cant lable LCA as indigenous.

in the case of F-2, japanese did a good job to domestically developed its radar and some weapon systems`

And airframe ,avonics ,radar is hybrid mmr ,FBW ( indian one ,need source here ?)) do you want me to drag j11 here or J15 mate?? Lol atleast we do describe what is indian or not ,what about you ?? :drag:
 
Atleast, we say JF17 is co-produced. Why don't you say so?

Because LCA is not a co-produced, or a co-developed fighter project! The development is planed and funded by India and the fighter will be produced in India as well, but like any other country we make use of foreign parts, or foreign industry partners. Same goes for Saab Gripen, which is an indigenous development of Sweden, allthough many major parts, or industrial partners are from UK, or US.

When you compare these 2 developments with JF 17, you actually have to say, FC 1 is an indigenous development of China, because they developed, funded and produced it. Pakistan did just procured a part of the rights by taking some parts of the funding, the development on the other side is still mainly Chinese and even to say it is co-produced is a bit far-fetched, because most of the first 100 JF 17 will be assembled in Pakistan only, but produced in China isn't it? That is more comparable to our MKI deal, because you can licence produce the fighter as well and customise it with some indigenous avionics parts, or (if available) western techs.

Now to your videos, it doesn't really make sense to compare both fighters with different criteria, because when you check LCA based on the following points, you have to do it for JF 17 as well don't you think?

- Design (Indian, with French consultancy)
- Engine (Indian development failed, replaced with US engine)
- Flight controls (Indian with foreign parts)
- Avionics (Mainly Indian, with some co-developments like the EWS)
- Radar (Indian under development with some Israeli parts, will replace Elta 2032 later, maybe even when serial production starts)
- Weapons (mix of Indian and foreign)


- Design (Chinese, with Mikoyan consultancy)
- Engine (Russian, will later replaced by Chinese)
- Flight controls (Corret me if I'm not wrong here, but I think it's Chinese as well)
- Avionics (mainly Chinese, with some minor Pakistani parts, if possible PAF would replace the Chinese with western counterparts)
- Radar (Chinese, possibly with some Russian links as well)
- Weapons (Chinese)


Indigenous doesn't mean all techs and parts has to be developed or produced in the developing country, that's only a fake reason to flaime bait and it's kind of amazing how obsessed some Pakistanis are to say LCA is not, while their own fighter project is even far away from beeing indigenous.

You asked of what we are proud of with LCA? Most likely on the same things why you might be proud of JF 17, because it is the first step for both of our countries to be independent. We don't have to take what others are ready to offer, but can develop the fighter to our requirements, we can customise it as we like, we don't have to fear restrictions, or to get downgraded parts even sanctions will don't hit the operational capability of both forces (at least when LCA gets Kaveri-Snecma and JF17 gets Chinese engine) and most of all, it is the first step of both aero industries in such developments, that really ends in an operational fighter for our forces.

The difference is we might have more reason to be proud of, because even if some things are delayed, or parts of the development failed, we will learn form them and make it better next time. LCA as a fighter for IAF might not be a game changer, but for our aero industry and our country it is, because we are on the right way to self reliance!
 
same as F-2 belongs to Japanese Mitsubishi, not Lockheed Martin's, even everyone knows its an enlarged copy of F-16. the whole point what crankthatskunk was making is when LCA incoporates various parts directly imported from foreign countries, like the FBW, radar, avionics, weapons, airframes, engines and ect were not domestically developed you cant lable LCA as indigenous.

in the case of F-2, japanese did a good job to domestically developed its radar and some weapon systems`

seriously you have no clue on what you are talking... Parts may be from Foreign but design is part of Indian.... and slowly they will be changed by indian manufactured part...

Except radar, engine and weapon ... which will be slowly indian.. i dont think your claim will withstand in UN :laugh: .... seriously you cant digest to see such small plane which will match your Lavi J-10 in future right??
 
Two updates -

1. IAF has changed requirements of AMCA from 20 to 25 tons now. So, expect more delays due to redesign and changed requirements.
2. After successful flights tests and design validation of Kaveri in Russia, IAF has vetoed Snecma eco-core and has asked GTRE to go ahead with home-grown Kabini core for AMCA engine. Snecma's role in the yet-tobe-signed JV is being reduced further now, as we speak.

The recent tests of Kaveri in Russia and flight data has impressed IAF and things have turned from red to blue though there is still a section of MoD who are in disbelief and are trying hard to push for Snecma's core. But recent flight tests has changed whole scenario. IAF have started smelling blue. Delays in signing GTRE-Snecma's JV were due to this reason. IAF is relooking at whole process.

By the way, Idrw is not reliable source. Date of July'2011 which they are quoting for AMCA, came out of their speculating as*. The official sanction for AMCA will be given around end of 2012 after IAF freezes design & requirements. Add delays due to changed requirements. I don't see IAF approving funds for AMCA prototype before 2014. So, we should expect first AMCA prototype to be around end of 2018 or 2019 beginning. But again, this is highly speculative because design is still not frozen.
 
Probably the IAF is right.Because the snecma m88 prmduces 74 kn max afterburner thrust but even with the present kabini kore the kaveri k9 was able to prmduce 84kn.Besides now we don't need snecma's single crystal blades as DRDO has already developped Ni based super aloy and their blades are working perfectly.And lastly AMCA will not be inducted before 2022.So GTRE has more than a decade to reduce the weight to 900kg,increase the max dry and afterburner thrust to 75 and 110kn respectively and put 3d tvc.We already have gained enough xpertise regarding 2.5d tvc through manufacturing of al 31f engines.
REGARDS........
 

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