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Lol, Kirpis will be destroyed be Technicals with ZSU majnoon.:lol::lol:
So you are actually thinking that a technical would be able to destroy a behemoth like the Kirpi 2? Nice one, man. We'll see in the next few weeks whether your claim has any truth.
 
https://www.ifes.org/sites/default/files/public_opinion_in_libya_2017_english.pdf

So you are actually thinking that a technical would be able to destroy a behemoth like the Kirpi 2? Nice one, man. We'll see in the next few weeks whether your claim has any truth.
Its armor is STANAG 4569 level 3 or 7.62mm resistant. ZSU is 23mm so you know the result.
STANAG 4569
7.62×51mm AP (WC core) at 30 meters with 930 m/s
Yeah 14.5, and 23mm will tear through it like butter through knife.

Oof I feel bad for the GNA terrorists if a Kirpi gets hit by an ATGM or IED.
C1_H81kXAAAfJC_.jpg
 
Its USAID mate. Its trusted.
What is strange is that I have known and used USAID data as a Libyan and I'm fairly sure that they don't include such data. Most of its data is international data and economic analysis, which is pretty divergent from the topic spoken about here. And also, although I do know that it doesn't count as hard evidence, as a Libyan who lives in libya for parts of the year, I can very well tell you that the data is incorrect, either by virtue of a faulty sample size, or due to other reasons unknown. There is no way on Earth that half of the country could support Haftar.
 
What is strange is that I have known and used USAID data as a Libyan and I'm fairly sure that they don't include such data. Most of its data is international data and economic analysis, which is pretty divergent from the topic spoken about here. And also, although I do know that it doesn't count as hard evidence, as a Libyan who lives in libya for parts of the year, I can very well tell you that the data is incorrect, either by virtue of a faulty sample size, or due to other reasons unknown. There is no way on Earth that half of the country could support Haftar.
Well, maybe I'm wrong and the data was wrong but that was 2017. Wasn't the LNA taking swaths of terrorist lands?

So do you see that a ZSU 23mm and a 14mm will destroy a Kirpi easily?
 
Thanks for the source. If you look at the sample sizes per city, you might guess why that data is the case. And besides, nobody is fighting for the GNA, everybody fighting against the LNA is fighting against Haftar.
Why do you hate Haftar? Longest he can be in power is 10-15 years, Gaddafi was leader for 40.
 
Well, maybe I'm wrong and the data was wrong but that was 2017. Wasn't the LNA taking swaths of terrorist lands?

So do you see that a ZSU 23mm and a 14mm will destroy a Kirpi easily?
To be honest, I'm not an expert myself on munitions and due to the sensitive nature of the data, I don't really wish to become one. Either way, to answer your question, the LNA took massive swathes on Libya in the East through bloodless deals with local and tribal militias in the East and South (the South is unstable either way), and the cities that did not want Haftar in the East (Benghazi and Derna) were literally flattened into submission. By area Haftar has taken the most, but Tripoli itself has one third of the Libyan population, and even with Haftar's acquisitions of the land, he is yet to rule half of the Libyan population. Benghazi is the only major centre under his control.
 
To be honest, I'm not an expert myself on munitions and due to the sensitive nature of the data, I don't really wish to become one. Either way, to answer your question, the LNA took massive swathes on Libya in the East through bloodless deals with local and tribal militias in the East and South (the South is unstable either way), and the cities that did not want Haftar in the East (Benghazi and Derna) were literally flattened into submission. By area Haftar has taken the most, but Tripoli itself has one third of the Libyan population, and even with Haftar's acquisitions of the land, he is yet to rule half of the Libyan population. Benghazi is the only major centre under his control.
I think with UAE, Egyptian, and Russian help he can take Tripoli. I think he should get UCAVs flying in Tripoli and bomb collections of militias. This will for one lower morale, and for two help forces push forward. IFF can be used via a thermal strip, or strobe light on commanders or something similar.

IMO if Russia gets involved with jets GNA will crumble in a few weeks.
 
Why do you hate Haftar? Longest he can be in power is 10-15 years, Gaddafi was leader for 40.
Well, the reason why I hate Haftar so much is that he has caused a lot of misery among us Libyans. I actually used to support him before 2014. After his failed coup, he launched the Dignity Operation, which was supported by foreign powers. It was the sheer scale of death and destruction that has astounded me as a Libyan, and the fact that I do have a few relatives and friends who were killed or locked up, some for speaking up against Haftar (online) and a few others for trivial reasons. If you speak up against him you are disappeared and found a few weeks later in a dumpster with torture marks and a gunshot to the head. This is not the future that Libyans want, and we can't wait for 15 years for him to leave. I remember back in 2015 when he decided to order billions of dollars of fake banknotes and caused hyperinflation. We still haven't recovered from it, we are still much poorer than if he didn't do that.

So I hate him because he hasn't given us anything but death and misery. And it is a really different thing when one faces it and it affects him in real life.
 
Well, the reason why I hate Haftar so much is that he has caused a lot of misery among us Libyans. I actually used to support him before 2014. After his failed coup, he launched the Dignity Operation, which was supported by foreign powers. It was the sheer scale of death and destruction that has astounded me as a Libyan, and the fact that I do have a few relatives and friends who were killed or locked up, some for speaking up against Haftar (online) and a few others for trivial reasons. If you speak up against him you are disappeared and found a few weeks later in a dumpster with torture marks and a gunshot to the head. This is not the future that Libyans want, and we can't wait for 15 years for him to leave. I remember back in 2015 when he decided to order billions of dollars of fake banknotes and caused hyperinflation. We still haven't recovered from it, we are still much poorer than if he didn't do that.

So I hate him because he hasn't given us anything but death and misery. And it is a really different thing when one faces it and it affects him in real life.
I like him because I like the book The Prince by an Italian author.
For me, the ends justify the means. A unified Libya is better than a divided Libya no matter the way it is achieved.
 
I think with UAE, Egyptian, and Russian help he can take Tripoli. I think he should get UCAVs flying in Tripoli and bomb collections of militias. This will for one lower morale, and for two help forces push forward. IFF can be used via a thermal strip, or strobe light on commanders or something similar.

IMO if Russia gets involved with jets GNA will crumble in a few weeks.
Haftar has already received Orlan 10 drones from Russia, and I think three of them were shot down. In my opinion, Russia still keeps relations with all sides and hasn't put its feet too deep inside one side for it to be committed to any result. Also, if they did want to get involved, they would have to do it at the behest of their ally Algeria and under the nose of Italy, which does not want Haftar to win this war as he threatened more tides of migrants to Europe. I remember a few weeks ago when Emirati drone strikes stopped the same day when the GNA claimes that the Air Force destroyed an Emirati operations room in Jufra AB. There are also reports of drones being inducted at the GNA Air Force as well, mainly from Turkey, though they aren't being used so far.
 
Haftar has already received Orlan 10 drones from Russia, and I think three of them were shot down. In my opinion, Russia still keeps relations with all sides and hasn't put its feet too deep inside one side for it to be committed to any result. Also, if they did want to get involved, they would have to do it at the behest of their ally Algeria and under the nose of Italy, which does not want Haftar to win this war as he threatened more tides of migrants to Europe. I remember a few weeks ago when Emirati drone strikes stopped the same day when the GNA claimes that the Air Force destroyed an Emirati operations room in Jufra AB. There are also reports of drones being inducted at the GNA Air Force as well, mainly from Turkey, though they aren't being used so far.
I think what may happen is two nations from one Libya like North Yemen and South Yemen from Yemen. I do have to say that North Libya will be poor and the other parts of Libya will be much richer because of the oil production.
 
I like him because I like the book The Prince by an Italian author.
For me, the ends justify the means. A unified Libya is better than a divided Libya no matter the way it is achieved.
I've also read the book. To me, it made the prince sound more like a paper tiger with smoke and mirrors all around. There is a lot of perception of strength and a lot of snakeyness to the prince for them to prosper. I also think that Haftar's endeavour will eventually fail, either through internal divisions (his Kaniyat are fighting his forces from Bani Walid because of a fight over ammo distribution), or due to an utter military defeat, or through Libya Yemenising, which will cause a fragmentation. There really isn't much of an end to justify his means except to enrich himself, and my moral stance, as well as my wellbeing and that of millions of Libyans, is far more important than an overarching leviathan to take power. After all, he will someday leave and our problems will nevertheless be the same. Back to Square 1.
 
I've also read the book. To me, it made the prince sound more like a paper tiger with smoke and mirrors all around. There is a lot of perception of strength and a lot of snakeyness to the prince for them to prosper. I also think that Haftar's endeavour will eventually fail, either through internal divisions (his Kaniyat are fighting his forces from Bani Walid because of a fight over ammo distribution), or due to an utter military defeat, or through Libya Yemenising, which will cause a fragmentation. There really isn't much of an end to justify his means except to enrich himself, and my moral stance, as well as my wellbeing and that of millions of Libyans, is far more important than an overarching leviathan to take power. After all, he will someday leave and our problems will nevertheless be the same. Back to Square 1.
And what if he captures Tripoli and the surrounding areas however unlikely that is?
 
I think what may happen is two nations from one Libya like North Yemen and South Yemen from Yemen. I do have to say that North Libya will be poor and the other parts of Libya will be much richer because of the oil production.
Secessionism is quite high in east Libya because that is the only way that Haftar can take ownership of the Libyan oil exports. If Libya does secede then nobody can benefit from the oil, as the East only has the infrastructire and the West is the one that provides the engineers, the bureaucracy, the labour and the economic infrastructure like banks, etc to actually function as an oil exporter. The individual provinces receive proportional amounts of money from the proceeds to their populations, and the East doesn't get as much as Western Libya by virtue of it being sparsely populated. The issue is that the funds can make things cheaper for places like Tripoli, Benghazi, Misrata and Sirte to use the money effectively due to lower upfront costs, but it isn't an issue of injustice, but more of an issue of there not being enough people in Eastern Libya.
 

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