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Lost opportunities of the Greek Defence Industry

Foinikas

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Defence Review posted a great article mentioning the weapons systems and projects that were never implemented or never had serious support from the State and were eventually abandoned. There were things that I had no idea we made!


I'll google translate most of the article and try to correct any wrong translations. You can still click on the link and auto-translate it into english if you can.

Lost opportunities of the Greek Defense Industry: Programs and weapon systems that were not exploited​


The industrial development of a country is a complex puzzle with many unstable factors, such as political-economic circumstances, research and competition, and in Greece the industrial revolution either came too late or came, saw, left and left with the globalization of the economy . The attempt to develop the Greek industry from the 1960s onwards stumbled upon the opening of the markets and faded away ingloriously, the country essentially passing from the agricultural economy to the economy of services, electronics and information. Of course, she was not the only one affected. Industries from all over the developed world have shut down as loss-makers or relocated to cheaper labor so that the cost of their products remains low.

Globalization, however, in developed countries has generally not affected their defense industry, which has continued to flourish and be a pillar of research and development of new technologies, many of which help the civilian industry. The exception to the rule is - no surprise - Greece. Focused on the domestic market, with zero research and development but also political will, the Greek defense industry was unable to compete, both domestically and internationally, with the corresponding foreign industries that had been in the field for several decades. There were ideas anyway – also no surprises, and that's worse. Ideas many of which for their time were remarkable. Efforts to develop new weapons and weapon systems that remained on the drawing board or progressed only to the prototype stage. Why they were not exploited, as perhaps they and we should be, is a difficult question.

Chronology

The effort to develop Greek modern weapons and weapon systems had already started since the interwar period. Some interesting weapon systems were the following: – CHROPEI GP10 assault rifle and submachine gun. – KEA KHELIDON training-surveillance aircraft of the EAF (Aircraft Factory), later KEA. An aircraft was built, which was used by the Hellenic Navy. – AEKKEA-RAAB R27 fighter aircraft. – Fighter Aircraft AEKKEA-RAAB R29. A number of these were built for the Spanish government forces during the Spanish Civil War. – Bomber/Transport aircraft AEKKEA-RAAB R54.

Newer period

A pivotal point in the efforts of the Hellenic Defense Industry was the development of the A/A system ARTEMIS 30, which - and given that the newly established EBO had no previous experience in the development and management of a complex system - was quite ambitious for its time. This may have resulted in suspicion on the part of the military and political leadership in every new attempt to develop new weapons systems by the Greek defense industry in the coming years. ARTEMIS-30 In the early 1980s, EBO started the development of an integrated anti-aircraft system called ARTEMIS-30. In full composition it would consist of:

A multi-function doppler radar for search and target acquisition with built-in IFF.
Two fire control radars with electro-optical camera and laser range finder.
8 firing units with twin 30mm cannons based on the MAUSER F cannon.

ARTEMIS-30.jpg


The above effort did not yield as expected, the system was never fully put into use and eventually 60 independent firing units with simple sights were acquired, which were only successfully integrated into the existing SKYGUARD system in 1996. Although the initial venture essentially failed due to the system never being able to become operational, EBO continued its development. He developed a version of the guns with built-in CROTALE-type A/V missiles in two twin launchers mounted on top of the base of each gun. There was also thought to develop two additional versions of the gun: one for naval use in a twin naval tower and one for land use to equip TOMA vehicles. At the same time, with regard to the latest version, it was decided to develop APDS-type ammunition. A variant of the TOMB LEONIDAS with a turret equipped with the ARTEMIS 30 cannon was also presented. In 2000, at the Defendory exhibition, a version of the firing unit with projectile exit velocity measuring coils, according to the standards of the AHEAD system, of the Swiss OERLIKON CONTRAVES was presented.

Length: 7950 mm
Width: 2375 mm
Height: 2250 mm
Weight: 6840 kg
Rate of Fire: 720-850 rpm
Generator power: 15kW
Ammunition: 500 rounds
Projectile speed: 1025 m/sec
Rotation possibility: 360°
Elevation: -5° to +85°
Range: 3000 m
Crew: 2 people

LEONIDAS S30

In the 90s, ELBO developed an anti-aircraft version of the LEONIDAS APC - which was already in production in Greece, 500 units, on behalf of the Greek army - to cover motorized formations. A system that today would be very useful in countering UAVs and missiles as the Gepard
counterpart's brief service to date in the Ukraine war has shown. The LEONIDAS S30 system was based on the self-propelled WILDCAT II system developed by KRAUSS MAFFEI. Although initially there was interest from both the Greek and Cypriot sides for such a system, in the end the idea never turned into a purchase and inclusion of the system in the Greek and Cypriot arsenal. After a decade and while the needs for a self-propelled V-SHORADS to enter Greek service were increasing, it was decided to purchase 54 ASRAD systems with a STN ATLAS tower on a HUMMER vehicle, a system with the same capabilities but not sharing the same armor and agility nor providing the same comprehensive A/A protection of the combination of A/A guns and A/A missiles. Also, the possibility of commercializing a Greek system on the international market was lost, with what this could mean for the company itself but also for the rest of the Greek sub-manufacturers, -eg. the EBO with its gun, in terms of profits and recognition.

Specifications

The LEONIDAS S30 chassis would have 99% common parts with the APC version while providing the same protection. It was made of welded sheets of homogeneous armor steel, providing protection to the crew from armor-piercing medium and small caliber ammunition and artillery fragments. The turret housing the weapon system, radar and target lock-on system would be fitted to the Leonidas APC, which would provide agility and protection to the system's crew due to the vehicle's armor and low silhouette. The WILDCAT's 35mm guns would be replaced by EBO's 30mm MAUSER guns. Also of interest was the system's ability to add STINGER A/A missiles either in single or twin launchers mounted on the lateral outer side of each gun or in a quadruple launcher in place of the gun itself.


TYPELEONIDAS S30
Greece
Crew3
Combat Weight19200 kg
Power/Weight ratio16.66 hp/t
Ground Pressure0,71 kg/cm2
Total Length5,945 m
Total Width2,5 m
Total height with deployed Radar 3,730 m3,730 m
Total height with Radar down 2.5 m2,5 m
EngineMTU
320 hp
TransmissionZF
4+2
Suspensiontorsion bars
Power pack
Main armament2x Mauser MK 30 F 30mm
Coaxial
Α/A roundsoptional
Smoke launchers
Main gun ammunition2x 250
Coaxial gun ammunition
TURRET
Crewx2
Turret movementElectrical
Gun elevation+85o /-10o
StabilisationYes
Armorsteel


ALEXANDER IFV

The development of ALEXANDROS IFV began at the end of the 80s with the agreement between ELVO and the then STEYR DAIMLER PUCH for the development of a new IFV that would cover the future needs of the Austrian and Greek armies. Other Greek companies would participate as sub-manufacturers in the new TOMA, integrating their products into the final product. The entire philosophy of the vehicle and the specifications were based to a large extent on Greek needs, i.e. it would be the first vehicle of its kind to be manufactured according to the needs of the Greek army.

When in Greece the whole program faded away, the Austrian company requested permission from the Greek side for the Spanish SANTA to participate in the development program.Eventually the vehicle was purchased by the Spanish and Austrian armies and marketed internationally as the ASCOD. Once again Greece missed the opportunity to develop a purely Greek product with the most likely initial customer being the Spanish military, which eventually procured the vehicle.

Specifications

ALEXANDROS' hull was constructed of welded sheets of improved armor steel, providing protection to the crew and personnel carried against medium and small caliber armor-piercing munitions and artillery fragments. The two-man turret would have a dual-feed 30mm (EBO Mauser MK 30 F) main gun and a 7.62mm (MG-3) coaxial gun.

TYPEASCOD (ALEXANDER)
Austria
Crew3+8
Combat weight25200 kg
Power/weight ratio23,8 hp/t
Ground pressure0,62 kg/cm2
Full length6,224 m
Full width3,0 m
Full height2,653 m
Maximum speed70 km/h
Range600 km
Water barrier1,2 m
Max Climb 75%75%
Side slope40%
Vertical obstacle crossing0,8 m
Trench crossing2,3 m
EngineMTU 8V 183 TE22 8 V90
600 hp
TransmissionRENK HSWL 106
4+6
Suspensiontorsion bars
Power pack6x12V
Main armament1x Mauser MK30 30mm x 173
Coaxial1×7,62mm
AT rounds
Smoke launchers4×3
Main gun ammunition200/200
Coaxial gun ammunition700/2200
TURRET
Crewx2
Turret rotationelectrohydraulic
manual
Gun elevation+50o /-10o
Stabilisationyes
Armorsteel

CENTAUR IFV

In 1998, the development of a new IFV began by ELVO, in an entirely Greek effort to develop a main weapon system based on the experience gained by the company with the production of the LEONIDAS but also the involvement in the development of the ALEXANDROS. Two years later the prototype was a reality. Despite all the initial indifference of both the Greek army and the political leadership, eventually both contributed to further development. The first with proposals and technical details that would bring the vehicle closer to his needs and the second with the initial decision to purchase the vehicle and the allocation of funds for the final configuration phase.

elbo_kentaurus_l2.jpg


Kentavros.jpg


And while everyone believed that finally, after almost 20 years of discrediting the Greek defense industry by the political leadership, we would be facing the first Greek main weapon system that would enter the production line from the design phase, unfortunately they were denied. Once again the program was forever locked away in the junk drawer.

KENTAURUS-2.jpg


Specifications

The hull of the KENTAVROS was constructed of welded sheets of improved armor steel, providing protection to the crew and personnel carried against medium and small-caliber armor-piercing munitions, artillery fragments and mines. The KUKA E8 one-man turret would have a dual-feed 30mm (EBO Mauser MK 30 F) main gun and a 7.62mm (MG-3) coaxial.

kentavrosnaamloosgescan2.jpg


TYPEKENTAVROS
Greece
Crew2+8
Combat Weight19800 kg
Power/weight ratio21,21 hp/t
Ground pressure0,74 kg/cm2
Total length6,28 m
Total width2,55 m
Total height2,30 m
Maximum speed75 km/h
Range500 km
Water barrier1.15
Maximum climb70%
Slope35%
Vertical obstacle crossing0,8 m
Trench crossing2,15 m
EngineMTU 6V183ΤΕ22
420 hp
TransmissionZF LSG 1000
6+2
Suspensiontorsion bars
Powerpack4x12V
Main armament1x Mauser MK30 30mm x 173
Coaxial1×7,62mm
AT rounds
Smoke launchers2×4
Main gun ammunition200/200
Coaxial gun ammunition500/500
TURRET
Crewx1
Turret rotationelectrical
manual
Gun elevation+45o /-10o
Stabilisationyes
Armorsteel

UFASC II

The UFASC II (Ultra Fast Craft) was a concept developed by EBO and presented at the Defendory exhibition in 1994. It was a high-speed -45-50 knots - catamaran-type craft with considerable armament. It was capable of carrying two 2.75in rocket baskets, one light torpedo between the two hulls and for self-defense a 0.50in heavy gun and a 40mm grenade launcher. One could say that such a weapon system in the hands of experienced special forces people would be extremely effective. Small UFASC-equipped teams scattered throughout the eastern Aegean would be the terror of any ship up to the size of a missile boat. They would certainly act as a deterrent to any thought by the eastern "allies" of a landing force on some island in the eastern Aegean, when the small underpowered landing craft loaded with troops and armament would first have to pass through the UFASC 'packs' before reaching the coast.

UFASC.jpg



UAVs

The idea of developing a Greek UAV or RPV, as the remote-controlled aircraft was codenamed, started in Greece in the mid-70s!
The result was the RPV PEGASUS, which was designed by a group of retired PA technicians, while ODA also joined the production process. The PEGASUS was a high-wing cylindrical fuselage air vehicle that had a weight of 80-100 kg, a payload of 20 kg and a speed of 120 km/h After twenty years of inactivity and setbacks since the first flight of PEGASUS, in 2000 it was decided to operationalize the system by the PA, which consisted of four aircraft and a control station. It was decided that the experience gained from the use of the system would be used in the development of a new system, PEGASUS II, with aircraft with improved flight characteristics and integrated stealth characteristics.

pigasos_uav_haf.jpg


The team that developed PEGASUS, when they saw that the program was not progressing at a satisfactory pace and after the involvement of the EAB, founded a company, AEROMICHANIKI, for the development of aircraft. This development resulted in the appearance of the DELTA PHANTOM RPV, which was superior to the PEGASUS. The DELTA PHANTOM had a square fuselage and delta wings, while it was made of synthetic materials, which gave it stealth characteristics. It had a weight of 45 kg, a payload of 25 kg and a speed of 220 km/h

Another consideration was the TELAMON RPV, which was proposed by the EAB and was based on the US-made BQM-74E flying target. NORTHROP GRUMMAN's BQM-74E is powered by a turbojet engine reaching 515 knots per hour, with a flight altitude of 7 ft to 40,000 ft (from 2.1 m to 12.2 km), and carrying its payload at a range of 350 N .miles (648.6 km). While in Greece this thought remained on paper, in Israel the BQM-74E was converted into the Delilah cruise missile.

The effort to develop UAVs in Greece began in the mid-70s. The Greek demon was once again ahead of developments at the global level and instead of justification the result was that the Greek people paid several million euros in 2002 for the purchase of the SPERWER from the French SAGEM, when originality became a necessity, but without any Greek system in development. Where would Greek know-how in this field have reached if we had invested in PEGASUS, DELTA PHANTOM and TELAMON more than twenty years ago?



A/A ARIS

In the early 1990s, the company APPLIANCES OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY ABEE designed an anti-aircraft protection system for airports with the aim of exploiting the huge inventory of SIDEWINDER A/A missiles of the Hellenic Air Force.The system would have consisted of a quadruple A/A missile launcher equipped with an electro-optical system and warning radar, but the plans remained on paper. It is worth mentioning that the German P.A. had used a similar system to protect its airports.

LASER GUIDED BOMB

In the early 80s, KETA undertook the development of the first Greek laser-guided bomb. K. Chatziantoniou was appointed as the person in charge of the program. When the program reached a satisfactory level, it was transferred to the jurisdiction of the EAB for completion. Although the results from the testing phase were satisfactory, the Hellenic Air Force never proceeded to order the weapon.

OTHER PROGRAMS

EBO in 1984 developed a disposable anti-tank and introduced it to Defendory under the name ARIS IV. Its main characteristics were, a caliber of 113 mm, a maximum range of 400 meters and the ability to penetrate 700 mm of homogeneous steel. Although there was interest from the special forces to include it in their arsenal, no order was placed.

Screenshot_2022-12-09 Η άγνωστη Ελληνική αμυντική βιομηχανία Mέρος 1ο.png


ELVO also presented another version of the LEONIDAS APC with an ET-90 tower of 90 mm in the standards of the CASCAVEL wheeled vehicle used by the Cypriot armed forces. Apparently it didn't excite the Greek officers enough to do the same...

In 1994, at the Defendory exhibition, EBO presented a modernized version of the 155 mm M-114 gun with a barrel of 39 calibers. The initiative to develop the gun modernization kit by its own means and with self-financing did not attract the interest of the Hellenic Army, which used the gun in large numbers.

In 1982 NAMCO, a vehicle manufacturer in Greece, introduced a series of military vehicles when the Citroen-Pony it was building came to an end: the armored 4×4 Tiger reconnaissance vehicle with a Chrysler 5.2 liter engine, the Milcar military truck 6×6 and a wheeled APC based on Milcar's 6×6 chassis. Indifference again had a catalytic effect and the company eventually closed.

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Last edited:
@Foinikas - not too much on the overall root causes of why the Greek military did not get into overall adoption and why knowing the economic conditions these avenues were not explored further
 
Surprising indeed..You know they say "better late than never"....Greece has good relationship with Egypt..If both countries are serious about developing weapons industry here is the chance..Stop buying from outside and spend the $$$ in joint developments...You just need political will..everything else both countries have..
Just a view from someone who is friendly to both countries.:-)
 
@Foinikas - not too much on the overall root causes of why the Greek military did not get into overall adoption and why knowing the economic conditions these avenues were not explored further
Back then we had money.
 
Surprising indeed..You know they say "better late than never"....Greece has good relationship with Egypt..If both countries are serious about developing weapons industry here is the chance..Stop buying from outside and spend the $$$ in joint developments...You just need political will..everything else both countries have..
Just a view from someone who is friendly to both countries.:-)
Yep
Joint ventures are the best way to develop weapons industry.
 
Surprising indeed..You know they say "better late than never"....Greece has good relationship with Egypt..If both countries are serious about developing weapons industry here is the chance..Stop buying from outside and spend the $$$ in joint developments...You just need political will..everything else both countries have..
Just a view from someone who is friendly to both countries.:-)
Imagine,we could have had experience from evolving a lot of these systems.

The Alexandros project eventually became the ASCOD and we were out of it. The Kentavros IFV was one of the best IFVs in the late '90s,but the government didn't show any interest. Instead,they later said they would buy Marder 1 from Germany...but never did.

The Leonidas S30 would have been a useful SPAAG against UAVs at the islands right now.

The author writes at the end:

Conclusions

State defense industries were created in the 1970s, framing PYRKAL, which existed since 1874, with the aim of developing critical weapons systems in Greece and de-dependency as much as possible from abroad on materials and systems that would affect the combat capability of the Armed Forces

The investments in building and mechanical equipment made by the Greek state did not have the same return on the final product. This was a result of the indifference of the military leadership but mainly of the later political leaderships to the products developed from time to time. The state-owned companies became warehouses for voters appointed to the State, as well as other previously prosperous companies such as the shipyards and Olympiaki, while small private companies could not stand in the field.

On the other hand, the lack of coordination of needs and procurement between the defense industry and Armed Forces, combined with the complete lack of funding in the research and development of new technologies and weapon systems, never left room for the proposal of an indigenous system, resulting in the shift to foreign companies. So either we had the waste of resources of the companies for the development of weapons systems at the wrong time or when the needs reached the final stretch of the supply of systems the Greek industry had no system to offer.



Also, the experience gained from the occasional co-production of systems by various Greek industries never turned into a trigger for the development of a domestic product.
For example, EBO built 500,000 G-3s with 100% rifle expertise, and has assembled other types of weapons with similar expertise, such as the Minimi, the HK-11, the MG-3, etc., but never it did not proceed to develop a similar domestic weapon. Greek shipyards have built everything from OPVs to submarines. When the new FAC program was approved, no one gave the possibility, while the know-how to build ships of the corresponding size and capabilities existed, to the domestic development of a design, but a design by a foreign shipbuilding house was directly preferred.

Rather, the failure of the ARTEMIS-30 program and the multi-year delay in the construction of JASON-type LSTs alarmed the political and military leadership regarding the capabilities of the Greek defense industry, while the political costs that would follow the next day of a new failure may have been a reason discrediting it. But what we have to keep in mind is that even countries like the US have had significant failures, e.g. Crusader, Comanche, future amphibious assault vehicle, etc., only there the development of new weapons systems never stopped and the technology developed from the canceled programs was used in other military applications and weapons systems.

Today the Greek defense industry has shown progress compared to previous decades. There are very respectable private defense industries with very respectable systems and sales abroad such as e.g. IDE, Miltech, EODH, Theon Sensors, Scytalis and many more. Nevertheless, for its further development, much more steps will have to be taken. Such as:

Study on which weapons systems could be developed in Greece with little technological risk, in the first phase, according to the current capabilities of our industry.

Political decision to prioritize the development of new weapons systems by the domestic defense industry.

Political will to allocate more funds to research and development. Political determination for inviolable conditions in the transfer of technology and know-how to Greek industries when purchasing new weapons systems from abroad, either through co-production or through compensatory programs and participation in international programs for the development of new weapons systems, so that our industry can benefit to the fullest and is able to use these technologies in the future for its own benefit.

Rationalization and long-term planning of the Armed Forces regarding the procurement of new weapon systems so that industry is able to know our needs and have the time frame to develop an indigenous product.

Cooperation of the Armed Forces with the industry, so that the product meets the specifications set by them.

Creation of the institute of new technologies on the models of the American DARPA and the British QINETIC Q, and integration of KETES, KETA and GETEN into it.

Cooperation of the industries and the new institute with the Greek university institutions for development and research, through subsidized programs, as all European countries do by utilizing their university research potential.
 
It will be an excellent start for both parties, I hope for a long time

19511591_1359519557489433_6994508277734433149_n-1.jpg
 
Defence Review posted a great article mentioning the weapons systems and projects that were never implemented or never had serious support from the State and were eventually abandoned. There were things that I had no idea we made!


I'll google translate most of the article and try to correct any wrong translations. You can still click on the link and auto-translate it into english if you can.

Lost opportunities of the Greek Defense Industry: Programs and weapon systems that were not exploited​


The industrial development of a country is a complex puzzle with many unstable factors, such as political-economic circumstances, research and competition, and in Greece the industrial revolution either came too late or came, saw, left and left with the globalization of the economy . The attempt to develop the Greek industry from the 1960s onwards stumbled upon the opening of the markets and faded away ingloriously, the country essentially passing from the agricultural economy to the economy of services, electronics and information. Of course, she was not the only one affected. Industries from all over the developed world have shut down as loss-makers or relocated to cheaper labor so that the cost of their products remains low.

Globalization, however, in developed countries has generally not affected their defense industry, which has continued to flourish and be a pillar of research and development of new technologies, many of which help the civilian industry. The exception to the rule is - no surprise - Greece. Focused on the domestic market, with zero research and development but also political will, the Greek defense industry was unable to compete, both domestically and internationally, with the corresponding foreign industries that had been in the field for several decades. There were ideas anyway – also no surprises, and that's worse. Ideas many of which for their time were remarkable. Efforts to develop new weapons and weapon systems that remained on the drawing board or progressed only to the prototype stage. Why they were not exploited, as perhaps they and we should be, is a difficult question.

Chronology

The effort to develop Greek modern weapons and weapon systems had already started since the interwar period. Some interesting weapon systems were the following: – CHROPEI GP10 assault rifle and submachine gun. – KEA KHELIDON training-surveillance aircraft of the EAF (Aircraft Factory), later KEA. An aircraft was built, which was used by the Hellenic Navy. – AEKKEA-RAAB R27 fighter aircraft. – Fighter Aircraft AEKKEA-RAAB R29. A number of these were built for the Spanish government forces during the Spanish Civil War. – Bomber/Transport aircraft AEKKEA-RAAB R54.

Newer period

A pivotal point in the efforts of the Hellenic Defense Industry was the development of the A/A system ARTEMIS 30, which - and given that the newly established EBO had no previous experience in the development and management of a complex system - was quite ambitious for its time. This may have resulted in suspicion on the part of the military and political leadership in every new attempt to develop new weapons systems by the Greek defense industry in the coming years. ARTEMIS-30 In the early 1980s, EBO started the development of an integrated anti-aircraft system called ARTEMIS-30. In full composition it would consist of:

A multi-function doppler radar for search and target acquisition with built-in IFF.
Two fire control radars with electro-optical camera and laser range finder.
8 firing units with twin 30mm cannons based on the MAUSER F cannon.

View attachment 920234

The above effort did not yield as expected, the system was never fully put into use and eventually 60 independent firing units with simple sights were acquired, which were only successfully integrated into the existing SKYGUARD system in 1996. Although the initial venture essentially failed due to the system never being able to become operational, EBO continued its development. He developed a version of the guns with built-in CROTALE-type A/V missiles in two twin launchers mounted on top of the base of each gun. There was also thought to develop two additional versions of the gun: one for naval use in a twin naval tower and one for land use to equip TOMA vehicles. At the same time, with regard to the latest version, it was decided to develop APDS-type ammunition. A variant of the TOMB LEONIDAS with a turret equipped with the ARTEMIS 30 cannon was also presented. In 2000, at the Defendory exhibition, a version of the firing unit with projectile exit velocity measuring coils, according to the standards of the AHEAD system, of the Swiss OERLIKON CONTRAVES was presented.

Length: 7950 mm
Width: 2375 mm
Height: 2250 mm
Weight: 6840 kg
Rate of Fire: 720-850 rpm
Generator power: 15kW
Ammunition: 500 rounds
Projectile speed: 1025 m/sec
Rotation possibility: 360°
Elevation: -5° to +85°
Range: 3000 m
Crew: 2 people

LEONIDAS S30

In the 90s, ELBO developed an anti-aircraft version of the LEONIDAS APC - which was already in production in Greece, 500 units, on behalf of the Greek army - to cover motorized formations. A system that today would be very useful in countering UAVs and missiles as the Gepard
counterpart's brief service to date in the Ukraine war has shown. The LEONIDAS S30 system was based on the self-propelled WILDCAT II system developed by KRAUSS MAFFEI. Although initially there was interest from both the Greek and Cypriot sides for such a system, in the end the idea never turned into a purchase and inclusion of the system in the Greek and Cypriot arsenal. After a decade and while the needs for a self-propelled V-SHORADS to enter Greek service were increasing, it was decided to purchase 54 ASRAD systems with a STN ATLAS tower on a HUMMER vehicle, a system with the same capabilities but not sharing the same armor and agility nor providing the same comprehensive A/A protection of the combination of A/A guns and A/A missiles. Also, the possibility of commercializing a Greek system on the international market was lost, with what this could mean for the company itself but also for the rest of the Greek sub-manufacturers, -eg. the EBO with its gun, in terms of profits and recognition.

Specifications

The LEONIDAS S30 chassis would have 99% common parts with the APC version while providing the same protection. It was made of welded sheets of homogeneous armor steel, providing protection to the crew from armor-piercing medium and small caliber ammunition and artillery fragments. The turret housing the weapon system, radar and target lock-on system would be fitted to the Leonidas APC, which would provide agility and protection to the system's crew due to the vehicle's armor and low silhouette. The WILDCAT's 35mm guns would be replaced by EBO's 30mm MAUSER guns. Also of interest was the system's ability to add STINGER A/A missiles either in single or twin launchers mounted on the lateral outer side of each gun or in a quadruple launcher in place of the gun itself.


TYPELEONIDAS S30
Greece
Crew3
Combat Weight19200 kg
Power/Weight ratio16.66 hp/t
Ground Pressure0,71 kg/cm2
Total Length5,945 m
Total Width2,5 m
Total height with deployed Radar 3,730 m3,730 m
Total height with Radar down 2.5 m2,5 m
EngineMTU
320 hp
TransmissionZF
4+2
Suspensiontorsion bars
Power pack
Main armament2x Mauser MK 30 F 30mm
Coaxial
Α/A roundsoptional
Smoke launchers
Main gun ammunition2x 250
Coaxial gun ammunition
TURRET
Crewx2
Turret movementElectrical
Gun elevation+85o /-10o
StabilisationYes
Armorsteel


ALEXANDER IFV

The development of ALEXANDROS IFV began at the end of the 80s with the agreement between ELVO and the then STEYR DAIMLER PUCH for the development of a new IFV that would cover the future needs of the Austrian and Greek armies. Other Greek companies would participate as sub-manufacturers in the new TOMA, integrating their products into the final product. The entire philosophy of the vehicle and the specifications were based to a large extent on Greek needs, i.e. it would be the first vehicle of its kind to be manufactured according to the needs of the Greek army.

When in Greece the whole program faded away, the Austrian company requested permission from the Greek side for the Spanish SANTA to participate in the development program.Eventually the vehicle was purchased by the Spanish and Austrian armies and marketed internationally as the ASCOD. Once again Greece missed the opportunity to develop a purely Greek product with the most likely initial customer being the Spanish military, which eventually procured the vehicle.

Specifications

ALEXANDROS' hull was constructed of welded sheets of improved armor steel, providing protection to the crew and personnel carried against medium and small caliber armor-piercing munitions and artillery fragments. The two-man turret would have a dual-feed 30mm (EBO Mauser MK 30 F) main gun and a 7.62mm (MG-3) coaxial gun.

TYPEASCOD (ALEXANDER)
Austria
Crew3+8
Combat weight25200 kg
Power/weight ratio23,8 hp/t
Ground pressure0,62 kg/cm2
Full length6,224 m
Full width3,0 m
Full height2,653 m
Maximum speed70 km/h
Range600 km
Water barrier1,2 m
Max Climb 75%75%
Side slope40%
Vertical obstacle crossing0,8 m
Trench crossing2,3 m
EngineMTU 8V 183 TE22 8 V90
600 hp
TransmissionRENK HSWL 106
4+6
Suspensiontorsion bars
Power pack6x12V
Main armament1x Mauser MK30 30mm x 173
Coaxial1×7,62mm
AT rounds
Smoke launchers4×3
Main gun ammunition200/200
Coaxial gun ammunition700/2200
TURRET
Crewx2
Turret rotationelectrohydraulic
manual
Gun elevation+50o /-10o
Stabilisationyes
Armorsteel

CENTAUR IFV

In 1998, the development of a new IFV began by ELVO, in an entirely Greek effort to develop a main weapon system based on the experience gained by the company with the production of the LEONIDAS but also the involvement in the development of the ALEXANDROS. Two years later the prototype was a reality. Despite all the initial indifference of both the Greek army and the political leadership, eventually both contributed to further development. The first with proposals and technical details that would bring the vehicle closer to his needs and the second with the initial decision to purchase the vehicle and the allocation of funds for the final configuration phase.

View attachment 920235

View attachment 920238

And while everyone believed that finally, after almost 20 years of discrediting the Greek defense industry by the political leadership, we would be facing the first Greek main weapon system that would enter the production line from the design phase, unfortunately they were denied. Once again the program was forever locked away in the junk drawer.

View attachment 920240

Specifications

The hull of the KENTAVROS was constructed of welded sheets of improved armor steel, providing protection to the crew and personnel carried against medium and small-caliber armor-piercing munitions, artillery fragments and mines. The KUKA E8 one-man turret would have a dual-feed 30mm (EBO Mauser MK 30 F) main gun and a 7.62mm (MG-3) coaxial.

View attachment 920241

TYPEKENTAVROS
Greece
Crew2+8
Combat Weight19800 kg
Power/weight ratio21,21 hp/t
Ground pressure0,74 kg/cm2
Total length6,28 m
Total width2,55 m
Total height2,30 m
Maximum speed75 km/h
Range500 km
Water barrier1.15
Maximum climb70%
Slope35%
Vertical obstacle crossing0,8 m
Trench crossing2,15 m
EngineMTU 6V183ΤΕ22
420 hp
TransmissionZF LSG 1000
6+2
Suspensiontorsion bars
Powerpack4x12V
Main armament1x Mauser MK30 30mm x 173
Coaxial1×7,62mm
AT rounds
Smoke launchers2×4
Main gun ammunition200/200
Coaxial gun ammunition500/500
TURRET
Crewx1
Turret rotationelectrical
manual
Gun elevation+45o /-10o
Stabilisationyes
Armorsteel

UFASC II

The UFASC II (Ultra Fast Craft) was a concept developed by EBO and presented at the Defendory exhibition in 1994. It was a high-speed -45-50 knots - catamaran-type craft with considerable armament. It was capable of carrying two 2.75in rocket baskets, one light torpedo between the two hulls and for self-defense a 0.50in heavy gun and a 40mm grenade launcher. One could say that such a weapon system in the hands of experienced special forces people would be extremely effective. Small UFASC-equipped teams scattered throughout the eastern Aegean would be the terror of any ship up to the size of a missile boat. They would certainly act as a deterrent to any thought by the eastern "allies" of a landing force on some island in the eastern Aegean, when the small underpowered landing craft loaded with troops and armament would first have to pass through the UFASC 'packs' before reaching the coast.

View attachment 920236


UAVs

The idea of developing a Greek UAV or RPV, as the remote-controlled aircraft was codenamed, started in Greece in the mid-70s!
The result was the RPV PEGASUS, which was designed by a group of retired PA technicians, while ODA also joined the production process. The PEGASUS was a high-wing cylindrical fuselage air vehicle that had a weight of 80-100 kg, a payload of 20 kg and a speed of 120 km/h After twenty years of inactivity and setbacks since the first flight of PEGASUS, in 2000 it was decided to operationalize the system by the PA, which consisted of four aircraft and a control station. It was decided that the experience gained from the use of the system would be used in the development of a new system, PEGASUS II, with aircraft with improved flight characteristics and integrated stealth characteristics.

View attachment 920237

The team that developed PEGASUS, when they saw that the program was not progressing at a satisfactory pace and after the involvement of the EAB, founded a company, AEROMICHANIKI, for the development of aircraft. This development resulted in the appearance of the DELTA PHANTOM RPV, which was superior to the PEGASUS. The DELTA PHANTOM had a square fuselage and delta wings, while it was made of synthetic materials, which gave it stealth characteristics. It had a weight of 45 kg, a payload of 25 kg and a speed of 220 km/h

Another consideration was the TELAMON RPV, which was proposed by the EAB and was based on the US-made BQM-74E flying target. NORTHROP GRUMMAN's BQM-74E is powered by a turbojet engine reaching 515 knots per hour, with a flight altitude of 7 ft to 40,000 ft (from 2.1 m to 12.2 km), and carrying its payload at a range of 350 N .miles (648.6 km). While in Greece this thought remained on paper, in Israel the BQM-74E was converted into the Delilah cruise missile.

The effort to develop UAVs in Greece began in the mid-70s. The Greek demon was once again ahead of developments at the global level and instead of justification the result was that the Greek people paid several million euros in 2002 for the purchase of the SPERWER from the French SAGEM, when originality became a necessity, but without any Greek system in development. Where would Greek know-how in this field have reached if we had invested in PEGASUS, DELTA PHANTOM and TELAMON more than twenty years ago?



A/A ARIS

In the early 1990s, the company APPLIANCES OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY ABEE designed an anti-aircraft protection system for airports with the aim of exploiting the huge inventory of SIDEWINDER A/A missiles of the Hellenic Air Force.The system would have consisted of a quadruple A/A missile launcher equipped with an electro-optical system and warning radar, but the plans remained on paper. It is worth mentioning that the German P.A. had used a similar system to protect its airports.

LASER GUIDED BOMB

In the early 80s, KETA undertook the development of the first Greek laser-guided bomb. K. Chatziantoniou was appointed as the person in charge of the program. When the program reached a satisfactory level, it was transferred to the jurisdiction of the EAB for completion. Although the results from the testing phase were satisfactory, the Hellenic Air Force never proceeded to order the weapon.

OTHER PROGRAMS

EBO in 1984 developed a disposable anti-tank and introduced it to Defendory under the name ARIS IV. Its main characteristics were, a caliber of 113 mm, a maximum range of 400 meters and the ability to penetrate 700 mm of homogeneous steel. Although there was interest from the special forces to include it in their arsenal, no order was placed.

View attachment 920242

ELVO also presented another version of the LEONIDAS APC with an ET-90 tower of 90 mm in the standards of the CASCAVEL wheeled vehicle used by the Cypriot armed forces. Apparently it didn't excite the Greek officers enough to do the same...

In 1994, at the Defendory exhibition, EBO presented a modernized version of the 155 mm M-114 gun with a barrel of 39 calibers. The initiative to develop the gun modernization kit by its own means and with self-financing did not attract the interest of the Hellenic Army, which used the gun in large numbers.

In 1982 NAMCO, a vehicle manufacturer in Greece, introduced a series of military vehicles when the Citroen-Pony it was building came to an end: the armored 4×4 Tiger reconnaissance vehicle with a Chrysler 5.2 liter engine, the Milcar military truck 6×6 and a wheeled APC based on Milcar's 6×6 chassis. Indifference again had a catalytic effect and the company eventually closed.

@Gomig-21 @Ghostkiller @joker88 @Windjammer @reflecthofgeismar @jhungary @Hamartia Antidote @villageidiot @Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose @waz @LeGenD @SQ8 @Maula Jatt @Beny Karachun @aryobarzan @mike2000 is back @BON PLAN @dBSPL @LegionnairE @merzifonlu @Goritoes @Dehydrated Trisolaran @Zarvan @Imran Khan @RescueRanger @Signalian @gambit @VCheng @The SC @Ali_Baba @Deino @Ich @Georg @F-22Raptor @Irfan Baloch @_NOBODY_ @KAL-EL @A.P. Richelieu




One thing

OIP.jpg


As my mom always said. You need to have money to catch any opportunities, of course when she was talking about this, she was talking about how my dad losing opportunties because he don't want to pay for it. In this case, Greece losing all those "has been" or "could be" because Greece is not strong enough economically to pay for them.

On the other hand, there are always going to be cheaper ways to do things. You can buy in JV with any country with better technology, Italy is one of those place, they are great, not that great as to the same level in France or Germany, but they are on the fringe, Greece should have develop some sort of Military R&D with Italy or the like, Leonardo seems like a good enough company to invest, maybe Italy can work something with the Greek? That would probably for the best,
 
I'll get conspiratorial and say that Greek politicians deliberately killed the Greek defence industry to stay dependant on Europe to either improve relations with Europe, to secure their support or to get better bribes

Never attribute to stupidity what you can attribute to malice
 
I'll get conspiratorial and say that Greek politicians deliberately killed the Greek defence industry to stay dependant on Europe to either improve relations with Europe, to secure their support or to get better bribes

Never attribute to stupidity what you can attribute to malice
They did get bribes in some cases,yes.
 
Maybe it's better make strong economic ties with Türkiye and waste less money in military.
 
@Foinikas besides Turkey, which other country or countries Greece see as potential adversary ?
Historically,Albania,FYROM and Bulgaria.

But since the end of the Cold War,the only one that we've had problems with is FYROM and only because of the naming dispute and everything that comes with it. Bulgaria has become a friend and neither Albania nor FYROM have an army strong enough to go to war with us.

Maybe it's better make strong economic ties with Türkiye and waste less money in military.
You actually think nobody has thought about that here? The problem is that you can't spend less,when you have an aggressive neighbor who is stronger than you,arms like crazy and threatens you almost daily in public speeches and interviews.
 

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