Misconceptions About Sikhism and Non veg

[Jatt Boy]

FOOLS WHO WRANGLE OVER FLESH

As a Sikh you can eat whatever you like so long as it is not "Kuttha" (Kosher or Halal meat).

WHY MEAT IS NOT SERVED IN LANGAR

The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat together in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a Gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal.

WHY JHATKA MEAT?

What is Jhatka Meat and Why?

Jhatka meat is meat in which the animal has been killed quickly without suffering or religious ritual.

We must give the rationale behind prescribing jhatka meat as the approved food for the Sikhs. According to the ancient Aryan Hindu tradition, only such meat as is obtained from an animal which is killed with one stroke of the weapon causing instantaneous death is fit for human consumption. However, with the coming of Islam into India and the Muslim political hegemony, it became a state policy not to permit slaughter of animals for food, in any other manner, except as laid down in the Quran - the kosher meat prepared by slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal while reciting verses from the Quran. It is done to make slaughter a sacrifice to God and to expiate the sins of the slaughter. Guru Gobind Singh took a rather serious view of this aspect of the whole matter. He, therefore, while permitting flesh to be taken as food repudiated the whole theory of this expiatory sacrifice and the right of ruling Muslims to impose iton the non-Muslims. Accordingly, he made jhatka meat obligatory for those Sikhs who may be interested in taking meat as a part of their food.

And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.

THE FINAL AUTHORITY

Guru Nanak Devji tackled this entire issue head on and rubbished the claims of so called spiritual people who thought themselves more pious and religious simply because they did not eat meat.
Page 1289 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

mehlaa 1.
maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.
ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.
gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.
maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.
farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.
naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.
anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.
maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.

First Mehl:
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Meat eating or vegetarianism has nothing to do with Sikhism. Guru's didn't contradicted each other on issues such as meat eating, it was not an issue that mattered to them or which they attached importance to. Thus a Sikh cannot be excommunicated for eating meat.

 

[RobbieS]

I always had a doubt regrading meat-eating in Sikhism. You've cleared a few.

However, if eating meat wasn't thought to be impure than why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji, forbade the Khalsa from eating it? Doesn't this contradict the extracts and views mentioned in your post above? Let me know if you can find anything on that.

 

[Jatt Boy]

Vaishnava tradition influenced Sikhism in last 2 decades, Hukamnama issued by Akal Takht Jathedar Sandhu Singh Bhaura dated February 15th 1980 that Amritdhari Sikhs can eat meat as long as it is jhatka meat and that eating meat does not go against the code of conduct, Kurehit, of the Sikhs.

In the Sikh Rehit Marayada, Section Six, it states:
The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way(Kutha);
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

 

[yuba]

FOOLS WHO WRANGLE OVER FLESH

As a Sikh you can eat whatever you like so long as it is not "Kuttha" (Kosher or Halal meat).

WHY MEAT IS NOT SERVED IN LANGAR

The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat together in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a Gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal.

WHY JHATKA MEAT?

What is Jhatka Meat and Why?

Jhatka meat is meat in which the animal has been killed quickly without suffering or religious ritual.

We must give the rationale behind prescribing jhatka meat as the approved food for the Sikhs. According to the ancient Aryan Hindu tradition, only such meat as is obtained from an animal which is killed with one stroke of the weapon causing instantaneous death is fit for human consumption. However, with the coming of Islam into India and the Muslim political hegemony, it became a state policy not to permit slaughter of animals for food, in any other manner, except as laid down in the Quran - the kosher meat prepared by slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal while reciting verses from the Quran. It is done to make slaughter a sacrifice to God and to expiate the sins of the slaughter. Guru Gobind Singh took a rather serious view of this aspect of the whole matter. He, therefore, while permitting flesh to be taken as food repudiated the whole theory of this expiatory sacrifice and the right of ruling Muslims to impose iton the non-Muslims. Accordingly, he made jhatka meat obligatory for those Sikhs who may be interested in taking meat as a part of their food.

And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.

THE FINAL AUTHORITY

Guru Nanak Devji tackled this entire issue head on and rubbished the claims of so called spiritual people who thought themselves more pious and religious simply because they did not eat meat.
Page 1289 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

mehlaa 1.
maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.
ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.
gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.
maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.
farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.
naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.
anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.
maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.

First Mehl:
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Meat eating or vegetarianism has nothing to do with Sikhism. Guru's didn't contradicted each other on issues such as meat eating, it was not an issue that mattered to them or which they attached importance to. Thus a Sikh cannot be excommunicated for eating meat.

so if i became a baptised sikh could i continue to eat meat

 

[Al-zakir]

So sikhs can not eat halal meat?

I find some sikhs eating in pakistani resturant.

 

[yuba]

So sikhs can not eat halal meat?

I find some sikhs eating in pakistani resturant.

we not meant to drink either you still see us in the pub

 

[Jatt Boy]

Point of above article is that your diet won’t make you any more spiritual. Guru Nanak Dev ji saw life at all levels. He saw it at the molecular level and did not differentiate between plant, animal, or mineral. The only form of life he saw as different was human life (read the 84 million incarnations bit).

If we eat vegetable we would have to go out plant the seeds, water them, put fertiliser on them, put pesticides on them, etc etc. Guru Nanak Dev ji talks at length of the pain of plants:
Page 143 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


mehlaa 1.
First Mehl:

vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,

khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.

ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.

bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.

naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay. ||2||
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||


We see the wildlife habitats destroyed for farming, the insects killed by pesticides, cows force fed to produce milk etc we become blinkered about the meat vegetable debate.

so if i became a baptised sikh could i continue to eat meat

 

[yuba]

thanks for article jatt boy thatsthe way i always thought of it

 

[ajpirzada]

O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.

main bhagoon, tu bhagay, per bhagain kis kay paas
nah main janoon, nah tu janay, bari kis ki zaat.

 

[Justin Joseph]

Caterer denies using eggs in Sikh banquet

By Stephen Howard, Press Association

A caterer was ordered to pay £415,000 damages to the widow of a man who died from anaphylactic shock after eating a dessert at a Sikh wedding, Court of Appeal judges were told today.


Kuldip Singh Bhamra was allergic to eggs but believed he was safe because the wedding banquet was held in a Sikh Temple and observers of the religion do not eat eggs.

Lawyers for his widow, Amarjit Bhamra, had argued that Lucky Caterers were negligent for supplying a dish called ras malai which allegedly contained the egg.

Mr Bhamra, a research chemist, and his wife had travelled from Birmingham to the Ramgarhia Temple in Forest Gate, London, in August 2003, for the wedding attended by more than 500 guests.

Satinder Hunjan QC, representing the widow, told a panel of three judges at the Court of Appeal that eggs were "strictly forbidden" at the temple.

He said the caterer, Prem Datt Dubb, and all the Sikhs attending the wedding knew that there was an absolute prohibition on eggs.

"The deceased would be entitled in the circumstances to expect that there would not be any egg or egg product in the food which was being served at the temple."

Mr Bhamra was aware of his allergy but did not have his adrenalin pens on the day of the wedding. He fell into a coma and died three days later in hospital aged 49.

Mr Hunjan said there were more people at the wedding than had been catered for and it was alleged that Mr Dubb had bought in extra desserts which he had not prepared himself.

Mr Dubb, who charged £4 a head for the wedding meals, said he made all the food himself and said he had never used eggs.

He is appealing against the decision at Oxford County Court last November when a judge awarded the damages after ruling Mr Dubb had been negligent in supplying the dessert.

Christian Du Cann, representing him, told the court there was no established practice over warning guests about food ingredients.

"One wonders why any caterer should be under a duty to declare the ingredients."

He said Mr Dubb had prepared the ras malai himself and did not use any egg.

"There is no reason for the appellant to have sought to ignore his own tradition and serve a dessert using egg."

The appeal judges reserved their ruling to a later date.

Caterer Denies Using Eggs In Sikh Banquet - The Voice of Sikh Youth

 

[Justin Joseph]

The big fat Sikh wedding is banned

Jeremy Page in Delhi

The big fat Indian wedding has been told to slim down. Leaders of Delhi’s Sikh community have called for an end to lavish wedding celebrations featuring meat and alcohol on the grounds that they encourage the dowry system and female foeticide.

The Delhi Gurdwara Management Committee, the city’s top Sikh body, has told the capital’s one million Sikhs to boycott weddings that are not teetotal, vegetarian and over by noon. Similar measures are being considered in other Indian cities.

Sikhs are supposed to avoid unnecessary expenditure, but their weddings have become increasingly ostentatious in recent years. Many last several days, beginning with the groom’s procession to the bride’s home and culminating in a banquet featuring tandoori chicken, beer and whisky and dancing into the night.

One of the most extravagant on record was that of Vikram Chatwal, a New York-based hotelier, and Priya Sachdev, an Indian model. Their ceremony last year involved twenty-five parties, held over ten nights in three cities. The committee has ordered Delhi’s 350 gurdwaras (Sikh temples) not to issue wedding certificates to families who ignore its guidelines. Those who hold wedding processions in the evening will not be allowed to marry in a gurdwara.

“Our fight is against the exploitation by those who pose demands on the girl’s family to organise elaborate weddings,” Paramjit Singh Sarna, the committee president, said. “It is this splurge of wealth on ceremonies which is promoting dowry and practices like female foeticide.”

Although it is technically illegal to demand a dowry, most Indians ignore the ban. The bride’s family is expected to pay for a sumptuous wedding and give the groom’s family cash and other gifts. As a result, daughters are traditionally seen as a financial burden and many Indians kill newborn girls or abort female foetuses.

The Indian Medical Association says that five million female foetuses are terminated every year. The issue was highlighted last week when the wife of an Indian millionaire accused him of forcing her to abort two girls.

Sardar Ram Singh, another Sikh leader in Delhi, said that the committee’s new guidelines would soon be taken up elsewhere. “I am confident that over 95 per cent Sikhs will positively respond to our appeal,” he said.

Similar calls have fallen on deaf ears on the past. “There might be a show of restraint, but at the end of the day, Sikhs like to party,” one 31-year-old Sikh man who is about to get married said. “I don’t think we’ll be changing our plans.”

Religious rules

–– Sikhism, founded more than 500 years ago, is the fifth-largest religion in the world, with 20 million adherents worldwide

–– Sikhs are forbidden from drinking, smoking or taking drugs and should not cut their hair

–– Sikhs are urged to avoid five evils: lust, rage, greed, attachment to worldly things and egotism

–– Child marriage and keeping multiple wives are forbidden. Widows or widowers may remarry, although divorce is frowned upon

–– Every male should add Singh after his name and every woman should add Kaur

The big fat Sikh wedding is banned - Times Online

 

[Justin Joseph]

I think Sikhs are very open minded and progressive community.

And one can found a Sikh everywhere in the world and mix well with locals.

There was a tale that when Saddam Hussain was leading a military campaign he saw a construction site where people are still working so Saddam goes there and ask why are u people working here when everybody have run away....

The Person who was doing construction was a Sikh.

 

[Justin Joseph]

He still believes that one day Saddam Hussein will sit on the throne made by him.

When television channels across the world were beaming images of the deposed Iraqi president's capture by American troops, Mukhtiar Singh locked himself in a room. And he did not eat for three days.

Singh was not the former president's aide or a beneficiary of the erstwhile dictator's regime. He is a carpenter who had stuck a 'special friendship' with Saddam and Iraq.

The intricately carved silver-coloured teakwood throne sits ensconced in a special glass case at his showroom -- Aashiana -- in Kirti Nagar market of Delhi [ Images ].

"I made this throne for Saddam Hussein [ Images ]. I will give it to him when I meet him," says Singh, who is also chairman of International Sikh Council. He has firm faith that Saddam will be released one day.

Singh had offered Saddam to make this throne in 1992. "I completed it in five months. It was gift for him. It was not to be sold. But when the throne was made, crisis started in Iraq and I was not able to send it to him."

"I pray for him everyday. Us ne Sikh dharm ke liye bada kaam kiya hai (He has done a great service to Sikhism," he says

Always clad in white kurta-pyjama and white turban, Singh, 50, has a long association with Saddam. And he stood behind his favourite Iraqi through thick and thin.

Singh's furniture factory is considered to be one of the best in Delhi. A designer of furniture himself, Singh has clients from several countries. But Iraq is special for him.

A graduate of Delhi University, Singh says he appeared for many competitive examinations without success. It was then he started a small furniture workshop in Mayapuri.


"It was a new thing for me. But gradually I developed interest in this field. I started designing furniture and god made it all possible. I will call it god's gift," he recalls.

One afternoon in 1976 the then Iraqi ambassador happened to visit his workshop. Impressed by the quality of work he bought some and sent it to Baghdad.

The Iraqis liked his furniture and soon Singh's business grew and he started exporting furniture to that country on a regular basis.

"People in Baghdad opened showrooms of my furniture. I became a brand name there," claims Singh.

Soon his furniture was brought to the notice of Saddam after the Iraqi ambassador sent him selected pieces from Delhi. Saddam was impressed and invited Singh to visit his palace.

"It was January 23, 1990. I met Saddam Hussein at his palace. He is great human being. A great friend and a wonderful person," recalls Singh. "Five Mercedes [ Images ] cars came to receive me at the airport. I was treated like a king. I was given a special room and coffee in a golden cup."

Singh took a 250-kg wooden lion to gift it to Saddam. "I presented him the small gift I had taken for him," says Singh. Both struck an instant rapport and the scheduled 15-minute meeting went for more than an hour.

The discussion ranged from Iraq's friendly relationship with India [ Images ], Sikhism in Iraq and Saddam's interest in art and culture.

"I convinced him that Sikhism is the most scientific religion on earth. He was impressed. He knew a lot about Sikh history in Iraq," he said.

At the end of the meeting, Saddam proposed that Singh stay in Baghdad and train Iraqi carpenters. "I refused with much respect but proposed to train 25 Iraqis at my workshop in Delhi. And I fulfilled my promise," Singh says.

But what makes him so nostalgic about the Iraqi president? "He asked me to express a desire. What ever I wanted," says Singh.

Singh requested Saddam to restore and renovate a Sikh religious place called Baba Nanak Maqam in Baghdad. Greatly revered by Sikhs, it was the place where Guru Nanak stayed on his way to Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.

"Saddam immediately ordered the renovation of the shrine. It was like a dream for me. And not just that he kept on communicating with me for so many months about the status of the shrine," says Singh showing the letters that the Iraqi president and ministers had sent to him.

Singh has also preserved the clippings of Iraqi newspapers that carried stories of Singh's friendship with Saddam.

"He (Saddam) has done a great service for Sikhism. We are indebted. We cannot return this debt no matter whatever we do for him," says an emotional Singh.

"Can you imagine such thing in an Arab land? Can a dictator be so large hearted? He is not a dictator. He is a tolerant and secular man. He respects others," says Singh.

Singh recalls that Saddam's cousin always made it a point to meet him whenever he came to Delhi.

Singh's communication with Saddam, and his business started decreasing after the first Gulf War. But Saddam did not forget to invite him for his birthday party in Tikrit.

"It was a wonderful experience for me. It became like my house. People were so friendly and nice to me. They know to respect guests," he says.

The ambassador's visit to his showroom decreased gradually and finally ended as Iraq got entangled in one crisis after another. But Singh kept praying for the well being of Saddam.

"Whenever I remember him, I feel disturbed. It should not have happened," says Singh, recalling the second Gulf War.

And Singh doesn't think too highly of US foreign policies. "Who has give them (US) the right to decide about the fate of other countries? Have they been able to find any trace of weapons of mass destruction?" he asks.

"Only the Iraqis should decide what kind of ruler they want. The change should come from within and not imposed by America or anybody else," he says.

Singh is also equally critical about India's response to the US-led war against Iraq. "Saddam was always India's friend. He had done so much for India but we could not do even a fraction of it for him," he said.

Now that the Baba Nanak Maqam is ravaged like any other building in Baghdad, Singh wants it restored again.

"I appeal to the US President (George) W Bush to immediately renovate the shrine. If they call themselves the protector of democracy then they must show it in action," he says. "If an alleged dictator can do so much, I want to see what America can do."

Ehtasham Khan

'One day Saddam will sit on my throne'

 

[Hyde]

I think Sikhs are very open minded and progressive community.

And one can found a Sikh everywhere in the world and mix well with locals.

There was a tale that when Saddam Hussain was leading a military campaign he saw a construction site where people are still working so Saddam goes there and ask why are u people working here when everybody have run away....

The Person who was doing construction was a Sikh.

you are right Justin...... despite Sikhs being a minority they are found all over the World.

Thats very surprising to me and they are usually in large numbers

and i am surprised to see this "Langar" system.......... Muslims give Langar on Holy Shrines, Hindu's give prasads in Mandir/Temples and Sikhs give Langar in their Gurduwara's.

What is the real logic behind it

 

[RobbieS]

and i am surprised to see this "Langar" system.......... Muslims give Langar on Holy Shrines, Hindu's give prasads in Mandir/Temples and Sikhs give Langar in their Gurduwara's.

What is the real logic behind it

Zaki, the purpose of Langar or community kitchen is to alleviate differences. Guru Nanak believed that if people of all communities/castes/tribe/religion can sit together and eat food prepared by somebody irrespective of its background, they can then live together easily.