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Nightmares: If Ukraine Loses

Nightmares: If Ukraine Loses​

By Edward Lucas
October 8, 2023

Letting Russia win spells doom for others too.
Photo: A Ukrainian serviceman looks on, amid Russia's attack on Ukraine, in Bakhmut, Donetsk region, Ukraine January 27, 2023. Credit: REUTERS/Yan Dobronosov's attack on Ukraine, in Bakhmut, Donetsk region, Ukraine January 27, 2023. Credit: REUTERS/Yan Dobronosov

It is February 2025. Within hours of taking office, President Donald Trump says that American aid to Ukraine will cease. Three weeks later, Russian drones and missiles are defeating Ukraine’s depleted air defenses. Heating and power systems are collapsing. In sub-zero temperatures, millions flee from uninhabitable cities. On the frontline, a Russian counteroffensive is breaking through. Out of ammunition, luck, time, and options, the Ukrainian leadership grasps at a Chinese-brokered truce.

The guns fall silent, but everything else gets worse. Ukraine is in turmoil. The country is traumatized by war and humiliated by the ceasefire. Was the sacrifice of the past thousand days in vain? NATO membership is postponed indefinitely under the armistice. Insecurity makes the ruined economy uninvestable. Membership in the European Union looks vanishingly unlikely. In Russia, Vladimir Putin is triumphant. His war of aggression, once mocked for its recklessness, is now vindicated. Sanctions remain on paper, but with the West’s political will broken, they are easily evaded. While Ukrainians are plunged into poverty, Russia’s economy booms.

The wind from Washington now blows in a new direction. For the incoming Trump administration, China is what matters. Europe has failed and is not to be taken seriously. NATO remains on paper, but as the new president said in his inauguration speech, “I give you notice: the United States is not going to war to protect some fields in southern Lithuania, nor protect countries that have for decades failed to pay their premiums.” Those 31 words destroy the credibility of the 49 words in Article 5, the collective security clause of the North Atlantic Charter, NATO’s founding document. The alliance’s deterrence for decades rested on the idea that an armed attack on any ally would bring military retribution from the world’s most powerful country. Not anymore.

Far from constraining Russia, the new Trump administration seeks to woo it as an ally against China: an idea outlined by veteran Republican Kremlin-watcher Tom Graham in “Getting Russia Right,” a prescient book published in November 2023. Europe is left on the sidelines, reaping the harvest of its thirty-year strategic time-out. Without American leadership, the countries closest to Russia are in a frenzy of anxiety. They know how quickly the Kremlin’s war machine will be ready for action again. But richer and bigger countries farther to the West see things differently. We must be realistic, they say. The era of geopolitical adventurism is over. Now is the time for a reset with Russia.

Fast forward another few months. By the end of 2025, the Trump administration is floundering. The loss of US credibility in Europe has spread to Asia. “Nobody wants to be the next Ukraine,” a senior Japanese politician tells journalists at an ASEAN summit. “A country that cannot deliver weapons reliably to help win a small conflict in Europe is not likely to go to war for Taiwan, South Korea, or indeed any ally in this region,” he continues.

In vain, the new administration tries to gather European support for a global coalition to counterbalance China’s clout in supply chains, infrastructure projects, and international rule-setting. But few countries are interested. “We have learned that ‘America First’ means ‘Allies Last,’ says a European diplomat, sardonically, “Why take the risk?”

Citing (mythical) Ukrainian provocations, Russia rips up the armistice and seizes more territory. Next, it issues an ultimatum demanding an extra-territorial “security corridor” between its Kaliningrad exclave and Belarus, with a demilitarized zone of 100 km on either side. As the clock ticks, China launches a naval blockade of Taiwan. “Have you called the White House?” asks a desperate ally. “Washington is silent,” comes the bleak reply.

I like it. Would watch the movie.
 
a risky bet

Trump says he will put pressure on Ukraine and Russia to end the war in 24h. The only realistic scenario: with Ukraine approval he sends US troops with thousands of tanks and planes into Ukraine and threatens Putin with nuclear annihilation if the russians don’t withdraw from Ukraine in 24h.
Trump will let the Russians keep what they took abd force Ukraine to sign a t
Neutrality treaty. He needs Russia against China and the only to get Russia onboard is to give Russia this concession. I will be worried for China if he did that. We depend on Russia for resources. Russia with the West will be the end of Chinese Independence.
 
It will be great if Ukraine loses. The whole appeal of the Western media to instigate the war and garner supports to win against Russia was a work of slippery rope and straw man fallacies. If Ukraine loses, more people will realize color revolutions don't work for the benefits of the people and that Western supports are as thin as a $100 Benjamine note. It will be a wake up call for the world and spells the beginning of the end of Western propaganda domination. It's like shoving the Western propaganda and actually-colonial ideals of human rights into the coffin. America's support of the Israeli genocidal war is the nailing of the coffin. When the American control of petrol and currency reserve gets buried, we can finally say 'Amen'. Of course the death will not come without a violent fight. Be ready, China and Russia.
 
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Trump will let the Russians keep what they took abd force Ukraine to sign a t
Neutrality treaty. He needs Russia against China and the only to get Russia onboard is to give Russia this concession. I will be worried for China if he did that. We depend on Russia for resources. Russia with the West will be the end of Chinese Independence.
What should he do that? The US establishment sees both Russia and China as arch enemies. Trump won’t change that. The west just wants China and Russia not coming together. Russia is a regional power not even a great power aka a mixed version of Venezuela and North Korea. the first has oil and gas but 0 nukes. The latter has nukes but 0 oil a d gas.

China is a serious threat. That’s why the US turns to Asia, allying with Vietnam to stop chinese bullying and imperialism.
 
What should he do that? The US establishment sees both Russia and China as arch enemies. Trump won’t change that. The west just wants China and Russia not coming together. Russia is a regional power not even a great power aka a mixed version of Venezuela and North Korea. the first has oil and gas but 0 nukes. The latter has nukes but 0 oil a d gas.

China is a serious threat. That’s why the US turns to Asia, allying with Vietnam to stop chinese bullying and imperialism.
Trump is a white nationalist, the right wing republicans support Russia. They hate Asiatic China not Russia. One of the reason I actually hope the Democrats can remain in power. My friend, Vietnam cannot stop China, you are just a pawn. However, if I am Vietnamese I would also play US against China and gain benefit from both. Remember, China has no intention to colonize Vietnam, we want what is ours back, nothing more nothing less, we had been very clear since day 1. US were the ones massacring Viets and gassed your population. You guys have pretty short memory.
 
Trump is a white nationalist, the right wing republicans support Russia. They hate Asiatic China not Russia. One of the reason I actually hope the Democrats can remain in power. My friend, Vietnam cannot stop China, you are just a pawn. However, if I am Vietnamese I would also play US against China and gain benefit from both. Remember, China has no intention to colonize Vietnam, we want what is ours back, nothing more nothing less, we had been very clear since day 1. US were the ones massacring Viets and gassed your population. You guys have pretty short memory.
You live in a la la land or shall I say you live in a barbie land? Of course we not giving up our territories to China in exchange for fake communist friendship.
Trump policy is not based on racism, I don’t know where you get this stuff? Trump wants to advance first and foremost US interests. Nothing else. Do you think Vietnam, Japan, Korea would ally with the US if we notice they are racists?

Russia is dangerous. US politics leftists or rightists are different but they all want to isolate Russia, same happened in the past, the US sabotaging every cooperation with Germany and Russia, or today China with Russia. The russians offered Germany the normalization including giving back all occupied territories in exchange for Germany to stay neutral. But the US opposed it so Germany remained divided until collapse of USSR. Ukraine can’t stay neutral. No way.
 
You live in a la la land or shall I say you live in a barbie land? Of course we not giving up our territories to China in exchange for fake communist friendship.
Trump policy is not based on racism, I don’t know where you get this stuff? Trump wants to advance first and foremost US interests. Nothing else. Do you think Vietnam, Japan, Korea would ally with the US if we notice they are racists?
Hey you have every right to oppose China mate. I have no issues with that. But saying Trump ain't racist is like calling the devil saintly. Korea and Japan would lick US feet even if they were racist. Vietnam is abit of an opportunist, and I won't blame you guys, it is just politics. But thinking someone who just massacre and gassed you guys as hero is abit too naive.


Russia is dangerous. US politics leftists or rightists are different but they all want to isolate Russia, same happened in the past, the US sabotaging every cooperation with Germany and Russia, or today China with Russia. The russians offered Germany the normalization including giving back all occupied territories in exchange for Germany to stay neutral. But the US opposed it so Germany remained divided until collapse of USSR. Ukraine can’t stay neutral. No way.
Compared to US, Russia looks more dependable man. How many wars the US started vs Russia? Ukraine can't stay neutral no way? So it is up to you to determine it? And that's the reason why hundreds of thousands will die. Lemme tell you this, Ukraine is getting destroyed not Russia. NATO will not accept a country in conflict as a member just as US boots won't be in Ukriane for the same reason. Status quo will be in Russia's favour, they consolidate their holdings, Ukraine remains indefinitely out of NATO, this can go on for decades man. Either way, China needs a Russia at odds with tge West, with attitude like yours, the next century will be the Han Century. I would have been more worried if Russia and the West works out a deal. WE NEED RUSSIA!
 
Hey you have every right to oppose China mate. I have no issues with that. But saying Trump ain't racist is like calling the devil saintly. Korea and Japan would lick US feet even if they were racist. Vietnam is abit of an opportunist, and I won't blame you guys, it is just politics. But thinking someone who just massacre and gassed you guys as hero is abit too naive.



Compared to US, Russia looks more dependable man. How many wars the US started vs Russia? Ukraine can't stay neutral no way? So it is up to you to determine it? And that's the reason why hundreds of thousands will die. Lemme tell you this, Ukraine is getting destroyed not Russia. NATO will not accept a country in conflict as a member just as US boots won't be in Ukriane for the same reason. Status quo will be in Russia's favour, they consolidate their holdings, Ukraine remains indefinitely out of NATO, this can go on for decades man. Either way, China needs a Russia at odds with tge West, with attitude like yours, the next century will be the Han Century. I would have been more worried if Russia and the West works out a deal. WE NEED RUSSIA!
I am shocked by your naivety. Russia is much like a cake monster in muppet show. It is an ugly imperialist it wants to expand endless territory. It lives on selling natural resources. Russia took large chunk of Chinese territories. Russia wanted to nuke China during the confrontations with Vietnam. Putin just waits for a perfect moment to take more from China.

But ok, Ccp is rich. You can give more to the russians. Don’t worry about Vietnam. We are pragmatic people. We just care about economy. You are free to kill each other.
 
But if trump is in charge, he will call up Putin, come to an agreement (probably donbas and Crimea to Russia by treaty) and then force the Ukrainians to accept it like the Afghans had to accept the trump deal with the Talibs.
The problem is, IF Russia made any significant battlefield gain, then maybe, Trump can force a treaty between Ukraine and Russia even if Trump is president again.

The thing is, the Russian don't have any bargining chip on this issue, I mean with what? A battlefield that static for over almost 11 months now, with a economy that's in ruin and with equipment loss and power loss skyhihgh, and that have nothing to show for other than the 18% of Ukraine they are holding........ even if US threaten to pull funding and weapon, Ukraine can and most likely will still fight on as that is done before US got involved, and even if a peace deal is reached, they will continue with their asymmetric warfare in occupied area, which made the peace deal moot. Trump knows this, which mean he couldn't reign in Ukraine, the only way Trump can literally do anything to force Ukraine to negotiate is basically side with Russia and threaten to use troop to invade Ukraine or even arm Russia for their attack, if he did this, he is no doubt going to get 25A.......and that is setting aside majority of GOP don't have an issue with funding Ukraine, only far right did.

Afghan did not accept Trump deal, that deal was done behind their back actually, and the reason why Ukraine did not do anything since 2014 is not because the US is there to tell them not to, but they are afraid to piss off the Russian, but now the Russian are pissed anyway as they are at war, they will most likely go all in......
 
Trump as president can do a lot without needing to consult anyone. The president makes policy, and if he is withdrawing funding he doesn’t need to ask congress. Even if they complain, trump won’t care. He will say he’s saving the american people’s money. And enough people will back him in these hard economic times.



Trump represents the mindset that Americans needs have to be met and foreigners should deal with their own problems.

He wants to give Crimea to Russia
He actually need to ask congress to stop funding, because that's congressional policy as they passed it in bills.

The draw down act, however he can stop with executive power.

On the other hand, chances of Trump being in prison first is higher than he is going to be president again. Especially on the Georgia I mean, those charge, especially "soliciting a public official to violate their oath of office" is quite solid.....and that's a 1 to 5 count.....
 
I am shocked by your naivety. Russia is much like a cake monster in muppet show. It is an ugly imperialist it wants to expand endless territory. It lives on selling natural resources. Russia took large chunk of Chinese territories. Russia wanted to nuke China during the confrontations with Vietnam. Putin just waits for a perfect moment to take more from China.

But ok, Ccp is rich. You can give more to the russians. Don’t worry about Vietnam. We are pragmatic people. We just care about economy. You are free to kill each other.
In politics you cannot be emotional, of course I would like to reclaim back Vladivostok but the facts are Russia is a nuclear power and we need them now. Without Russia, US will seek to destroy us. It is just plain mathematics, US is the bigger bastard and we need resources from Russia to fuel our economy. Sooner or later when China reaches our zenith, something can happen eventually. Lol
 
Oh, oh, oh. How is that even possible? Our so called "military men" here in the forum and elsewhere told us 24/7 how stupid and incapable the rooskies are.

And now the whole Nato, no, the whole west, wasn't able to beat them? These stupid "Orcs"?

Don't forget Iranian and North Korean support. Although they alone cannot account for the benefits but on the financial sector, the Russian Federation is also well off.

I think their arms purchases are way lower than expensive NATO supplied drones to Ukraine.
 
In politics you cannot be emotional, of course I would like to reclaim back Vladivostok but the facts are Russia is a nuclear power and we need them now. Without Russia, US will seek to destroy us. It is just plain mathematics, US is the bigger bastard and we need resources from Russia to fuel our economy. Sooner or later when China reaches our zenith, something can happen eventually. Lol
So your lie and your hypocrisy is exposed.
You not dare to take back your territory occupied by the russians because Putin can nuke China, and you need cheap oil to fight the US. Although the US never take your territory.

Wait until we Vietnam acquire ICBM. I think uncle Kim can help us. Let’s see if Ccp dares to threaten our territories.
 
So your lie and your hypocrisy is exposed.
You not dare to take back your territory occupied by the russians because Putin can nuke China, and you need cheap oil to fight the US. Although the US never take your territory.

Wait until we Vietnam acquire ICBM. I think uncle Kim can help us. Let’s see if Ccp dares to threaten our territories.
You are an idiot. Anglo-Saxons are the hegemonic power. Attacking Russia exacerbates that problem. Only Anglos or idiots themselves would say such a thing. Desist from this weasel-like vassalage to Anglos. It's cringeworthy.
 
Putin's special military operation in Ukraine was supposed to bring Ukraine to its knees in 3 days and Putin was to get crowned there within a week after taking a 3rd of Ukraine. After a year Russian military is in shambles, Ukraine is just hanging on. And both are trying hard to bring the rest of the world into their conflict.
 

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