Opinionated - Best time to get back IOK

[peagle]

You know, that is one of the principal fears of India, that they deem us utterly reckless and foolhardy people. This perception arose out of 1965's adventure.

I have a slightly different take on this matter.
Nothing is constant right, please keep that in mind.

India has never thought of Pakistan as reckless and foolhardy, because they know us, they know our cultural heritage, they trained with the same people, and same concepts in military. We love to project a reckless and foolhardy image, and convinced ourselves that's how the world see us, because that's an image we don't mind projecting, let's say psychological warfare.

But, Indians are not stupid, although arrogant, they are clever and used to be more so, there are reasons but those are not important right now. By knowing us, they certainly did not buy into the image, but on their part they didn't mind spreading it as well, for their own reasons, to make us look irresponsible. So, the same image is being portrayed by Pakistan and India for different reasons.

However, they did and do think that we have a good fight in us, it's that recognition of the capacity to fight that's kept them from directly attacking Pakistan.

The reckless and foolhardy image was accepted by the rest of the world, especially the West, for various reasons. They did not know us, we were ready to accept that image, and India was spreading that image because they wanted to make us look irresponsible.
A single motive can have various reasons, and be accepted by opposing parties for their own reasons.

However, after decades of interactions with Pakistan, this image no longer holds true in the west either, certainly not in policy making circles, it gets played around because it is easier to justify. And, because India still wants to project Pakistan as an irresponsible state. But the image itself no longer holds true in the west either. They have dealt with us for decades, by now, they know us as very well.

That's why two decades of "Do More" was just hot air, nothing more. it was the respect and recognition of Pakistan's capabilities, the western countries could not force Pakistan to "Do More".

A reckless and a foolhardy state, does not and cannot hold off an enemy many times bigger then itself on a permanent basis, even after losing half the country. They know losing something 2000 miles way isn't a big deal, think Vietnam and Afghanistan etc...

A reckless and a foolhardy state does not make strategic decisions, think continuous relations with China, think actual development from nothing despite the unstable environment, think nuclear program, think missile program, think relatively stable society.

So, what each party is ready to repeat for sake of sound bites is totally different from what they actually recognise and accept.

Pakistan is the only main player holding up the negotiations on the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty, despite pressure from the entire world for over a decade, because it is not in our interests. A reckless and foolhardy state cannot do that. The rest of the world knows that very well. These are the new realities.

 

[Indx-techs]

............is that what they teach you at sanghi high?

Is it necessary to act like a d and bait people every time you show up?

............please come and try, then you'll see EXACTLY what the military balance between Pakistan and india is really like............

As told before, it's the Pakistani government which backed off in latest case of imminent war.

World needs to dissuade India from its war-mongering after Pulwama, Qureshi tells UNSC chief

"India must refrain from escalating the situation and enter into dialogue with Pakistan and Kashmiris," says minister.

www.dawn.com

Difficult equation

Ties with India must be rejigged.

www.dawn.com

Uneducated fanboys just can yell, "cm here, v r kingz yada yada". Obviously since they don't have the authority to mobilise Pak army. Later, brush the failure under the carpet of incompetent leaders and westetn support etc..

PS What advanced military equipment have indians invented and produced like the Russians have?.........

India produces all the weapons P5 states have except heavy bombers and stealth planes. We anyway are talking about India vs Pakistan and not US/Russia/China. India doesn't need to be no. 1 when comes to superseding Pak. It's industrial is just primitive.

Economic Complexity Index - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So india that is more than 7x bigger than Pakistan and has the full backing of the West and Russia

What kind of full backing India had from US & Russia except mere talks? It was Pak for recorded history AFAIK and still is summoning third party interventions.

is more weaker than Pakistan?........

But too bad, it didn't happen. Neither Pak entered Indian mainland territory crossing air defences nor even it shot down Indian planes in Balakot aftet detection. They were aware about their position and mission was to save their image than any real action.

Pakistani defence enthusiasts are all about trolling, bragging name calling but without any substance. Even reply to this post would be nothing more than desperate yapping kaala, yindu, gangu, baniya etc..

There's indeed a huge gap between how Pakistani nationalists see their country vs how rest of world sees them. It's not a ferocious miliatorious nuclear regional power. But an indebted and unstable, poor Islamic theocratic state which found nukes & arms (not in large amount either).

 

[SIPRA]

I have a slightly different take on this matter.
Nothing is constant right, please keep that in mind.

India has never thought of Pakistan as reckless and foolhardy, because they know us, they know our cultural heritage, they trained with the same people, and same concepts in military. We love to project a reckless and foolhardy image, and convinced ourselves that's how the world see us, because that's an image we don't mind projecting, let's say psychological warfare.

But, Indians are not stupid, although arrogant, they are clever and used to be more so, there are reasons but those are not important right now. By knowing us, they certainly did not buy into the image, but on their part they didn't mind spreading it as well, for their own reasons, to make us look irresponsible. So, the same image is being portrayed by Pakistan and India for different reasons.

However, they did and do think that we have a good fight in us, it's that recognition of the capacity to fight that's kept them from directly attacking Pakistan.

The reckless and foolhardy image was accepted by the rest of the world, especially the West, for various reasons. They did not know us, we were ready to accept that image, and India was spreading that image because they wanted to make us look irresponsible.
A single motive can have various reasons, and be accepted by opposing parties for their own reasons.

However, after decades of interactions with Pakistan, this image no longer holds true in the west either, certainly not in policy making circles, it gets played around because it is easier to justify. And, because India still wants to project Pakistan as an irresponsible state. But the image itself no longer holds true in the west either. They have dealt with us for decades, by now, they know us as very well.

That's why two decades of "Do More" was just hot air, nothing more. it was the respect and recognition of Pakistan's capabilities, the western countries could not force Pakistan to "Do More".

A reckless and a foolhardy state, does not and cannot hold off an enemy many times bigger then itself on a permanent basis, even after losing half the country. They know losing something 2000 miles way isn't a big deal, think Vietnam and Afghanistan etc...

A reckless and a foolhardy state does not make strategic decisions, think continuous relations with China, think actual development from nothing despite the unstable environment, think nuclear program, think missile program, think relatively stable society.

So, what each party is ready to repeat for sake of sound bites is totally different from what they actually recognise and accept.

Pakistan is the only main player holding up the negotiations on the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty, despite pressure from the entire world for over a decade, because it is not in our interests. A reckless and foolhardy state cannot do that. The rest of the world knows that very well. These are the new realities.

Fully agree, what you have posted; but it seems that you have somewhat misunderstood my posts. I am not at all saying that Pakistan acted, even in 1965, in a "reckless" and "foolhardy" way. That was not the case. It was in fact a miscalculation, or blunder, but not "recklessness". What I am saying is that India perceived it as such. I was alluding to their perception, not our venture.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Is it necessary to act like a d and bait people every time you show up?

As told before, it's the Pakistani government which backed off in latest case of imminent war.

World needs to dissuade India from its war-mongering after Pulwama, Qureshi tells UNSC chief

"India must refrain from escalating the situation and enter into dialogue with Pakistan and Kashmiris," says minister.

www.dawn.com

Difficult equation

Ties with India must be rejigged.

www.dawn.com

Uneducated fanboys just can yell, "cm here, v r kingz yada yada". Obviously since they don't have the authority to mobilise Pak army. Later, brush the failure under the carpet of incompetent leaders and westetn support etc..

India produces all the weapons P5 states have except heavy bombers and stealth planes.

India anyway in this discussion, doesn't have to compete with Russia or NATO. We are talking about whose strategic assets are far more limited. We quite much know industrial production & abilities of Pakistan.

Economic Complexity Index - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What kind of full backing India had from US & Russia except mere talks? It was Pak for recorded history AFAIK and still is summoning third party interventions.

But too bad didn't happen. Neither Pak entered Indian mainland territory crossing air defences nor even it shot down Indian planes in Balakot aftet detection.

Pakistani defence enthusiasts are all about trolling, bragging name calling but without any substance. Even reply to this post would be nothing more than desperate yapping kaala, yindu, gangu, baniya etc..

Can you provide ANY credible links to what weapons 1.4 billion indians have 100% indigenously invented and produced themselves?......................so you admit that 7x bigger india CAN barely take on Pakistan DESPITE having the FULL BACKING of the West and Russia...........................



PS If ANY of what you said above was true then india would be buying 0 weapons from abroad. They would be inventing and making it themselves but alas the IQ of 1.4 billion indians is not capable enough to do so........

 

[Black Tornado]

Can you provide ANY credible links to what weapons 1.4 billion indians have 100% indigenously invented and produced themselves?......................so you admit that 7x bigger india CAN barely take on Pakistan DESPITE having the FULL BACKING of the West and Russia...........................

What has any country on earth made 100% indigenous when it comes to weapons? America imports lots of aerospace components from India for its equipment either produced by the manufacturing plants of their aerospace companies in India or by purchasing them from Indian companies. And this is just about India, they import a lot from UK and Israel as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438788051967168515

PS If ANY of what you said above was true then india would be buying 0 weapons from abroad. They would be inventing and making it themselves but alas the IQ of 1.4 billion indians is not capable enough to do so........

We can make a lot of things in-house, its the military which has to decide what to buy and what to be selected for procurement. Even USA, Japan and South Korea like advanced economies depend on foreign supplies and help for many of their equipments which is completely normal.

 

[Wood]

It is always a good time to start a war

 

[peagle]

Fully agree, what you have posted; but it seems that you have somewhat misunderstood my posts. I am not at all saying that Pakistan acted, even in 1965, in a "reckless" and "foolhardy" way. That was not the case. It was in fact a miscalculation, or blunder, but not "recklessness". What I am saying is that India perceived it as such. I was alluding to their perception, not our venture.

lol
no Sir, you misunderstood the assumed misunderstanding that you think I may have misunderstood, do you understand

At no point I mentioned 1965 or any other war, my post was purely with regards to the image or perception. I thought it was pretty clear that I was referring to the image of being reckless and foolhardy.

 

[Indx-techs]

Can you provide ANY credible links to what weapons 1.4 billion indians have 100% indigenously invented and produced themselves?

No, India doesn't have anything 100% indigenous or in house. Most Indian projects were either inspired from or were directly bought from countries. Most countries started like this. US got from Europe and China & India got from USSR & France
Some countries mere bought and used, some countries tried assembling to learn the curve, some even expanded their infrastructure more to learn and near completely produce the system in house. Civil industry and MIC are interlinked in society.

Pakistan lies way behind in the industrial curve. So, it's military MIC is isolated and was built purposely. So capabilities too are limited due to limited budget & cost.

But for sure you can measure the degree by calculating added value or number of components. For example, missile technologies have 94 classifications in 2017. Here you can see difference between the countries.

http://www.mtcr.info/english/MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf

India : 81
Pakistan : 39
China : 92
Iran: 21
Israel: 74
Turkey: 4
USA:94
UK:94
Russia:94
France: 93
Japan: 93
Saudi Arabia:0
North Korea:25
South Africa : 34
South Korea: 42
Vietnam: 0

This is 2017 list BTW. I have here measured at least one parameter of technology to compare which explains why India can make AAMs, ABMs and ASATs etc. while Pak can't.

......................so you admit that 7x bigger india CAN barely take on Pakistan DESPITE having the FULL BACKING of the West and Russia...........................

No, I'm saying that you will just keep spamming this comment while Pakistan will never do anything more than calling Indians Nazis on international forum and asking for help, will desperately keep asking for talks, while power differential between India and Pakistan will always keep growing.

I will keep logging in this forum in every few months to remind you that no change has happened.

PS If ANY of what you said above was true then india would be buying 0 weapons from abroad.
They would be inventing and making it themselves but alas the IQ of 1.4 billion indians is not capable enough to do so........

That's a no brainer. Low IQ Indians rank highest in Central, South, Southeast Asia, Middle-east and Latin America in scientific output and have innovations per capita equivalent to Europe, administering major firms.
An IQ of 500 can't help you unless you have learnt for which you need help of someone experienced. As far as taking lead is concerned, Power = Military & Economics = Money = Population*Income

Colonial Era Europe had unlimited resources from colonies and end of most colonies after WW2 induced US & USSR to top who had large educated populations capable of exploiting opportunities while China & India were dirt poor despite huge populations. Normalisation of their income levels gave them a huge GDP industry (and obvious difference in early policies and management) now explains gap between two, current policies will explain for future. The same as difference between Vietnam vs Bangladesh where Pakistani industry lies even at lower pedestal. Nigeria will gradually start taking lead over China & India in population and cycle continues.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

What has any country on earth made 100% indigenous when it comes to weapons? America imports lots of aerospace components from India for its equipment either produced by the manufacturing plants of their aerospace companies in India or by purchasing them from Indian companies. And this is just about India, they import a lot from UK and Israel as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438788051967168515

We can make a lot of things in-house, its the military which has to decide what to buy and what to be selected for procurement. Even USA, Japan and South Korea like advanced economies depend on foreign supplies and help for many of their equipments which is completely normal.

So did indians invent space technology?......... ..............can you provide ANY credible evidence that proves that over 1.4 billion indians have EVER invented ANY advanced sciences comparable to the White and FAR Eastern races?..........

 

[SIPRA]

lol
no Sir, you misunderstood the assumed misunderstanding that you think I may have misunderstood, do you understand

At no point I mentioned 1965 or any other war, my post was purely with regards to the image or perception. I thought it was pretty clear that I was referring to the image of being reckless and foolhardy.

I understand. Thanks. Allah aap ko khush rakhay.

 

[Indx-techs]

No, India doesn't have anything 100% indigenous or in house. Most Indian projects were either inspired from or were directly bought from countries. Most countries started like this. US got from Europe and China & India got from USSR & France
Some countries mere bought and used, some countries tried assembling to learn the curve, some even expanded their infrastructure more to learn and near completely produce the system in house. Civil industry and MIC are interlinked in society.

Pakistan lies way behind in the industrial curve. So, it's military MIC is isolated and was built purposely. So capabilities too are limited due to limited budget & cost.

But for sure you can measure the degree by calculating added value or number of components. For example, missile technologies have 94 classifications in 2017. Here you can see difference between the countries.

http://www.mtcr.info/english/MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf

India : 81
Pakistan : 39
China : 92
Iran: 21
Israel: 74
Turkey: 4
USA:94
UK:94
Russia:94
France: 93
Japan: 93
Saudi Arabia:0
North Korea:25
South Africa : 34
South Korea: 42
Vietnam: 0

This is 2017 list BTW. I have here measured at least one parameter of technology to compare which explains why India can make AAMs, ABMs and ASATs etc. while Pak can't.

No, I'm saying that you will just keep spamming this comment while Pakistan will never do anything more than calling Indians Nazis on international forum and asking for help, will desperately keep asking for talks, while power differential between India and Pakistan will always keep growing.

I will keep logging in this forum in every few months to remind you that no change has happened.

That's a no brainer. Low IQ Indians rank highest in Central, South, Southeast Asia, Middle-east and Latin America in scientific output and have innovations per capita equivalent to Europe, administering major firms.
An IQ of 500 can't help you unless you have learnt for which you need help of someone experienced. As far as taking lead is concerned, Power = Military & Economics = Money = Population*Income

Colonial Era Europe had unlimited resources from colonies and end of most colonies after WW2 induced US & USSR to top who had large educated populations capable of exploiting opportunities while China & India were dirt poor despite huge populations. Normalisation of their income levels gave them a huge GDP industry (and obvious difference in early policies and management) now explains gap between two, current policies will explain for future. The same as difference between Vietnam vs Bangladesh where Pakistani industry lies even at lower pedestal. Nigeria will gradually start taking lead over China & India in population and cycle continues.

Fixed that MTCR link, sorry.

https://mtcr.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MTCR-Handbook-2017-INDEXED-FINAL-Digital.pdf

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

No, India doesn't have anything 100% indigenous or in house. Most Indian projects were either inspired from or were directly bought from countries. Most countries started like this. US got from Europe and China & India got from USSR & France
Some countries mere bought and used, some countries tried assembling to learn the curve, some even expanded their infrastructure more to learn and near completely produce the system in house. Civil industry and MIC are interlinked in society.

Pakistan lies way behind in the industrial curve. So, it's military MIC is isolated and was built purposely. So capabilities too are limited due to limited budget & cost.

But for sure you can measure the degree by calculating added value or number of components. For example, missile technologies have 92 classifications in 2017. Here you can see difference between the countries.

http://www.mtcr.info/english/MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf

India : 81
Pakistan : 39
China : 92
Iran: 21
Israel: 74
Turkey: 4
USA:94
UK:94
Russia:94
France: 93
Japan: 93
Saudi Arabia:0
North Korea:25
South Africa : 34
South Korea: 42
Vietnam: 0

This is 2017 list BTW.

No, I'm saying that you will just keep spamming this comment while Pakistan will never do anything more than calling Indians Nazis on international forum and asking for help, will desperately keep asking for talks, while power differential between India and Pakistan will always keep growing.

I will keep logging in this forum in every few months to remind you that no change has happened.

That's a no brainer. Low IQ Indians rank highest in Central, South, Southeast Asia, Middle-east and Latin America in scientific output and have innovations per capita equivalent to Europe, administering major firms.
An IQ of 500 can't help you unless you have learnt for which you need help of someone experienced. As far as taking lead is concerned, Power = Military & Economics = Money = Population*Income

Colonial Era Europe had unlimited resources from colonies and end of most colonies after WW2 induced US & USSR to top who had large educated populations capable of exploiting opportunities while China & India were dirt poor despite huge populations. Normalisation of their income levels gave them a huge GDP industry (and obvious difference in early policies and management) now explains gap between two, current policies will explain for future. The same as difference between Vietnam vs Bangladesh where Pakistani industry lies even at lower pedestal. Nigeria will gradually start taking lead over China & India in population and cycle continues.

The average racial IQ of an indian is 82. Lower than Pakistan........:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

PS Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that indian needs foreign diplomatic support to Tey to take on Pakistan?..........

 

[Indx-techs]

The average racial IQ of an indian is 82. Lower than Pakistan........:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

PS Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that indian needs foreign diplomatic support to Tey to take on Pakistan?..........

Do you seriously believe that 2006 survey when India's income levels were worse than Pak? If that would work, India wouldn't be filing 46k patents in WIPO every year compared to Pak's 800 nor Pak would rank below hundred in knowledge infestation in industry. That survey stopped validating itself a decade ago with change in economies.

Indians didn't use to take part in Olympiads earlier. Spam as much as you like to believe on racial superiority, Pakistan as a national institution was always incompetent and backwater in all recorded regards.

 

[SIPRA]

Why stop at IoJK?

Why not liberate MaqboozaDelhi and plant PakFlag on RedFort...while we are at it...

'''''..... When will they ever learn...
when will they ever learn...''''


The Chaos hasn't covered the entire Heaven...yet... good things to those who wait...with PLANNING!

Paa Jee: Hath haula rakho. Kyun Bhaktaan noon yarka tay kharhka raye O.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Do you seriously believe that 2006 survey when India's income levels were worse than Pak? If that would work, India wouldn't be filing 46k patents in WIPO every year compared to Pak's 800 nor Pak would rank below hundred in knowledge infestation in industry. That survey stopped validating itself a decade ago with change in economies.

Indians didn't use to take part in Olympiads earlier.

Out of 1.4 billion people, you do get anamolies....................so, out of 1.4 billion people, name EVEN 1advanced science or technology invented 100% indigenously by indians.........also provide the evidence too..........

Also, do you have ANY evidence that the indian IQ has increased since 2006?.........