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Pakistan making armed drones but lacks key technology; China offers help

A.Rafay

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KARACHI, Pakistan — Pakistan is secretly racing to develop its own armed drones, frustrated with U.S. refusals to provide the aircraft, but is struggling in its initial tests with a lack of precision munitions and advanced targeting technology.

One of Islamabad’s closest allies and Washington’s biggest rivals, China, has offered to help by selling Pakistan armed drones it developed. But industry experts say there is still uncertainty about the capabilities of the Chinese aircraft.

The development of unmanned combat aircraft is especially sensitive in Pakistan because of the widespread unpopularity of the hundreds of U.S. drone strikes against Taliban and al-Qaida militants in the country’s rugged tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

The Pakistani government denounces the CIA strikes as a violation of the country’s sovereignty, though senior civilian and military leaders are known to have supported at least some of the attacks in the past. Pakistani officials also call the strikes unproductive, saying they kill many civilians and fuel anger that helps militants recruit additional fighters — allegations denied by the U.S.

Pakistan has demanded the U.S. provide it with armed drones, claiming it could more effectively carry out attacks against militants. Washington has refused because of the sensitive nature of the technology and doubts that Pakistan would reliably target U.S. enemies. The U.S. has held talks with Pakistan about providing unarmed surveillance drones, but Islamabad already has several types of these aircraft in operation, and the discussions have gone nowhere.

Inaugurating a defense exhibition in the southern city of Karachi last week, Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf indicated Islamabad would look for help from Beijing in response to U.S. intransigence.

“Pakistan can also benefit from China in defense collaboration, offsetting the undeclared technological apartheid,” said Ashraf.

Pakistan has also been working to develop armed drones on its own, said Pakistani military officials and civilians involved in the domestic drone industry, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the classified nature of the work.

Pakistan first began weapons tests seven or eight months ago with the Falco, an Italian drone used by the Pakistani air force for surveillance that has been modified to carry rockets, said a civilian with knowledge of the secret program. The military is also conducting similar tests with the country’s newest drone, the Shahpur, he said. An unarmed version of the Shahpur was unveiled for the first time at the Karachi exhibition.

The weapons tests have been limited to a handful of aircraft, and no strikes have been carried out in combat, said the civilian.

Pakistan lacks laser-guided missiles like the Hellfire used on U.S. Predator and Reaper drones and the advanced targeting system that goes with it, so the military has been using unguided rockets that are much less accurate.

While Hellfire missiles are said to have pinpoint accuracy, the rockets used by Pakistan have a margin of error of about 30 meters (100 feet) at best, and an unexpected gust of wind could take them 300 meters (1,000 feet) from their intended target, said the civilian. Even if Pakistan possessed Hellfires and the guidance system to use them, the missile’s weight and drag would be a challenge for the small drones produced by the country.

Pakistan’s largest drone, the Shahpur, has a wingspan of about seven meters (22 feet) and can carry 50 kilograms (110 pounds). The U.S. Predator, which can be equipped with two Hellfire missiles, has a wingspan more than twice that and a payload capacity over four times as great.

Pakistani drones also have much more limited range than those produced in the U.S. because they are operated based on “line of sight” using radio waves, rather than military satellites. The Shahpur has a maximum range of 250 kilometers (150 miles), while the Predator can fly over five times that distance.

The British newspaper The Guardian reported Tuesday that Pakistan was working on an armed drone but did not provide details.

The market for drones has exploded in Pakistan and other countries around the world in recent years, as shown by the array of aircraft on display at the defense exhibition in Karachi. Hoping to tap into a worldwide market worth billions of dollars a year, public and private companies wheeled out over a dozen drones that ranged in size from hand-held models meant to be carried in a backpack to larger aircraft like the Shahpur.

All the Pakistani drones on display were advertised as unarmed and meant for surveillance only. One private company, Integrated Dynamics, even promotes its aircraft under the slogan “Drones for Peace.” But several models developed by the Chinese government were marketed as capable of carrying precision missiles and bombs.

The Chinese government has offered to sell Pakistan an armed drone it has produced, the CH-3, which can carry two laser-guided missiles or bombs, industry insiders said.

Also being offered to Pakistan is a more advanced drone, the CH-4, which closely resembles a U.S. Reaper and can carry four laser-guided missiles or bombs, according to Li Xiaoli, a representative of the Chinese state-owned company that produces both the CH-3 and CH-4, Aerospace Long-march International Trade Co., Ltd.

Pakistan has yet to purchase any armed Chinese drones because their capabilities have yet to be proven, but is likely to do so in the future, said the civilian with knowledge of the Pakistani military’s drone program.

Only a few countries, including the U.S., Britain and Israel, are known to have actually used armed drones in military operations.

“China is a bit of a tough nut to crack as you’d expect,” said Huw Williams, a drone expert at Jane’s International Defense Review. “They frequently wheel out exciting looking aircraft but are yet to really demonstrate anything earthshattering.”

Pakistan racing to develop armed drones but lacks key technology; China offers help - The Washington Post
 
A done plane with no tachnology

a) Sophisticated cameras with night vision
b) Electronics system
c) Fire and forget weapons
d) Proper Engine (we are talking a proper jet engines)

Is not really a true UAV these can help in viewing the battlefield form air a cheap resource but with latest advancement going around we need to have technological integration to really make these planes on par with technology available world wide

Lack of engine is a hurdle which prevents missiles to be carried on these planes and its simple as that Pakistan needs to work on a engine .. it can depend on so no more imported Honda , Toyota engines build a engine on your own power , invest in local companies that are interested in building a proper engine and only then you can target these endevors

A proper point of cooperation is
a) Turkey
b) China
 
pakistan cant do anything, its evident, there is no RnD at all, chinese are even seting up JF17 plants, but even training pakistani skilled men how to operate the machines, evidently our so called mighty military doesnt even have an ounce of RnD programs

Pakistan can just import and import, cant even make a nail
 
pakistan cant do anything, its evident

Pakistan has achieved significant milestones in drone technology by itself and with scarce resources in a short time ... Just because you do not know about it , doesn't mean there is no R&D at all and we cant do anything ! :azn: ... Go try to research a little about the products of Integrated Dynamics , SATUMA and NESCOM before making silly comments here ... Armed drone tech isn't so easy to develop so we have to take help from other countries and there's nothing wrong about it ... It is done around the world in the name of JV's !
 
Pakistan has achieved significant milestones in drone technology by itself and with scarce resources in a short time ... Just because you do not know about it , doesn't mean there is no R&D at all and we cant do anything ! :azn: ... Go try to research a little about the products of Integrated Dynamics , SATUMA and NESCOM before making silly comments here ... Armed drone tech isn't so easy to develop so we have to take help from other countries and there's nothing wrong about it ... It is done around the world in the name of JV's !

turkey is not begging other nations to developed its UCAV, its trying out itself, whereas pakistan is asking china to import the entire UCAV, so its not asking for help, its asking to import the entire drone, read the article carefully

also the drones pakistan has developed till now is not very far from RC model toys, it doesnt even require complicated RnD
 
turkey is not begging other nations to developed its UCAV, its trying out itself, whereas pakistan is asking china to import the entire UCAV, so its not asking for help, its asking to import the entire drone, read the article carefully

also the drones pakistan has developed till now is not very far from RC model toys, it doesnt even require complicated RnD

Neither are we ! Pakistan also wants the drone technology instead of buying it off the shelf , otherwise it wouldn't taken long importing CH-3 or CH-4 from Beijing ...
Inaugurating a defense exhibition in the southern city of Karachi last week, Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf indicated Islamabad would look for help from Beijing in response to U.S. intransigence.

That is the triggering point behind the whole news/article ! Rest is all speculation ...

Actually , the drones developed in Pakistan were exported to US for surveillance ! You were saying ? :azn:

Checked the Integrated Dynamics products yet ?
 
Neither are we ! Pakistan also wants the drone technology instead of buying it off the shelf , otherwise it wouldn't taken long importing CH-3 or CH-4 from Beijing ...

but the article clearly states what it states

One of Islamabad’s closest allies and Washington’s biggest rivals, China, has offered to help by selling Pakistan armed drones it developed. But industry experts say there is still uncertainty about the capabilities of the Chinese aircraft.

what is so confusing about this statement that is so difficult to comprehend?, it clearly means pakistan lacks technology so it looks towards the chinese drones it exhibited in expo and buy in a good deal

why was pakistan waiting? because either it didnt have money or either it wasnt no serious about it before
 
^
China has offered , has Pakistan bought ? :no:

Yes , we lack technology because we are in a new territory and it will take time for us to become accustomed with it !
 
Pakistan is already working with China in various Defence field & I strongly believe Pak & China are working on Armed Drones. It is true Pakistan is desperate to make its own fleet of Armed Drones & as the sources they have been working on it for a long time. For me China is the right option, they can help us complete the Armed Drones Pakistan is making or there is also a strong possibility that Pakistan is close to buy Chinese Armed Drones.

Pakistan Army & the Intel Agencies desperately needs these Armed Drones for they will reduce the burden on Pak Army & the Intel Agencies. I hope Pakistan is able to solve this problem with the help of China very soon because Armed Drones are very important for Pakistan.

Rented bast*rd terrorists like BLA, BLF, BSO & TTP will be very badly be damaged by Armed Drones.

INSHAALLAH soon we will hear a very good news regarding the Armed Drones.
 

[B]While Hellfire missiles are said to have pinpoint accuracy, the rockets used by Pakistan have a margin of error of about 30 meters (100 feet) at best, and an unexpected gust of wind could take them 300 meters (1,000 feet) from their intended target, said the civilian.[/B] Even if Pakistan possessed Hellfires and the guidance system to use them, the missile’s weight and drag would be a challenge for the small drones produced by the country.[/QUOTE]
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Old News! Air Weapons Complex has been dummy testing the locally made UCAV's for over 3 years now and coming up short. China's help has always been in the pipeline but the main problem with that is China itself has not yet fielded a UCAV into operation and they are asking too much price-wise to build a prototype jointly with AWC-PAC in Pakistan. So the wait continues as currently the military is strapped for finances and hence cannot buy any foreign manufactured drones let alone UCAV's!
 
Old News! Air Weapons Complex has been dummy testing the locally made UCAV's for over 3 years now and coming up short. China's help has always been in the pipeline but the main problem with that is China itself has not yet fielded a UCAV into operation and they are asking too much price-wise to build a prototype jointly with AWC-PAC in Pakistan. So the wait continues as currently the military is strapped for finances and hence cannot buy any foreign manufactured drones let alone UCAV's!

Yaraa we've got some decent firms making UAVs in Pakistan's Private Sector; has bringing them on board with the AWC been considered to solve the liquidity problem ?
 
Yaraa we've got some decent firms making UAVs in Pakistan's Private Sector; has bringing them on board with the AWC been considered to solve the liquidity problem ?

UAV isn't really the big problem. They are being used in FATA in ops by the troops. But a UCAV, the combat missile firing thing, is a different beast. I don't think any private company at present has the capability to make a UCAV or contribute significantly to it, in the firing systems.
 

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