Pakistan’s maritime compulsions

[kurup]

Probably you have not read about the world war II naval wars.............and don't come back with, "This is 2012...modern ACC are much more advanced".......

So are modern anti ship weapons and naval warfare techniques.

So has the defence against these Anti-ship weapons .

In a war you don't have to kill a soldier or his machine, you just have to render them incapable to carry on the fight..

Applicable to everybody.

 

[Slayer786]

"to be frank" this is BS and Pakistan's "get out of jail free card". India spends LESS as a proportion of GDP than Pakistan so everything you are saying about India spending on its poor or not doing goes doubly or three times as much for Pakistan. Additionally India is cutting poverty at a rate only China can really match and poverty will be within acceptable limits within most of our lifetimes within India however by all accounts poverty is increasing in Pakistan.

Over the last two decades, Pakistan has continued to offer much greater upward economic and social mobility to its citizens than neighboring India. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report on Asia's rising middle class released recently.

The simplest definition of the middle class is a group of people in a society who are neither rich nor poor. The middle class has always been considered vital to a country's political stability and economic growth. The rich and the poor simply distrust each other too much to let the other govern. Nations with large middle class populations find it easier to reach consensus on sustaining good, democratic governance.

Unfortunately for Pakistan, the size of the middle class was very small when it came into existence, and the country was dominated by a small powerful feudal elite created by the British rulers to sustain their colonial rule. And the urban middle class remained small for decades. The situation has, however, finally begun to change in the the last decade of 1999-2009 with a combination of increasing urbanization and faster economic expansion that fueled significant job creation in the industrial and services sectors to enable middle class growth.

An ADB report on Asia's rising middle class released this month confirms that Pakistan's middle class has grown to 40% of the population, significantly larger than the Indian middle class of about 25% of its population, and it has been growing faster than India's middle class. The other significant news reported by Wall Street Journal today says the vast majority of what is defined as India's middle class is perched just above $2 a day, making it vulnerable to various shocks. This is also true of Pakistan.

Here are the details of income levels in India, Pakistan and China as reported by ADB:

Daily Income....Under$2..$2-$4.......$4-$10........$10-$20....Over $20

India............76%...20.45%......4.15%........0.45%........0.10%

Pakistan.........60%...32.94%......6.56%........0.62%........0.15%

China ..........36%....33.97%......25.17%.......3.54%........0.68%

Pakistan has continued to offer much greater upward mobility to its citizens than neighboring India. Since 1990, China's middle class population has expanded by 61.4%, Pakistan's by 36.5% and India's by 12.8%.

In terms of education, average number of years of schooling in Pakistan is 13 years, 3 years more than India's 10, according to an education comparison published by Newsweek recently. An average Pakistani is, therefore, better educated and more capable of earning higher income than an average Indian.

Well I did not want to go off topic but I was compelled to show here that Pakistan is not doing too bad in spite of all the upheavals in our country. But both Pakistan and India should utilize their resources to improve the conditions of its citizens, just keeping in mind the security in not lagging behind, otherwise what good is a country if it cannot protect its borders.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Fair, agree with both points.

So has the defence against these Anti-ship weapons .



Applicable to everybody.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Over the last two decades, Pakistan has continued to offer much greater upward economic and social mobility to its citizens than neighboring India. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report on Asia's rising middle class released recently.

The simplest definition of the middle class is a group of people in a society who are neither rich nor poor. The middle class has always been considered vital to a country's political stability and economic growth. The rich and the poor simply distrust each other too much to let the other govern. Nations with large middle class populations find it easier to reach consensus on sustaining good, democratic governance.

Unfortunately for Pakistan, the size of the middle class was very small when it came into existence, and the country was dominated by a small powerful feudal elite created by the British rulers to sustain their colonial rule. And the urban middle class remained small for decades. The situation has, however, finally begun to change in the the last decade of 1999-2009 with a combination of increasing urbanization and faster economic expansion that fueled significant job creation in the industrial and services sectors to enable middle class growth.

An ADB report on Asia's rising middle class released this month confirms that Pakistan's middle class has grown to 40% of the population, significantly larger than the Indian middle class of about 25% of its population, and it has been growing faster than India's middle class. The other significant news reported by Wall Street Journal today says the vast majority of what is defined as India's middle class is perched just above $2 a day, making it vulnerable to various shocks. This is also true of Pakistan.

Here are the details of income levels in India, Pakistan and China as reported by ADB:

Daily Income....Under$2..$2-$4.......$4-$10........$10-$20....Over $20

India............76%...20.45%......4.15%........0.45%........0.10%

Pakistan.........60%...32.94%......6.56%........0.62%........0.15%

China ..........36%....33.97%......25.17%.......3.54%........0.68%

Pakistan has continued to offer much greater upward mobility to its citizens than neighboring India. Since 1990, China's middle class population has expanded by 61.4%, Pakistan's by 36.5% and India's by 12.8%.

In terms of education, average number of years of schooling in Pakistan is 13 years, 3 years more than India's 10, according to an education comparison published by Newsweek recently. An average Pakistani is, therefore, better educated and more capable of earning higher income than an average Indian.

Well I did not want to go off topic but I was compelled to show here that Pakistan is not doing too bad in spite of all the upheavals in our country. But both Pakistan and India should utilize their resources to improve the conditions of its citizens, just keeping in mind the security in not lagging behind, otherwise what good is a country if it cannot protect its borders.

Not the place for this discussion freind. But I will just say this- compare figures for the last 10 years or future projections and the Pakistani situation looks much less rosey.

 

[Nishan_101]

I wish that PAF will soon going to add about 30 JF-17 Block-IIs(15 single seat and 15 dual seat) by 2015 in Naval role that will replace some Mirages and complement the fleet and then INSHA ALLAH about 40 Block-IIIs by 2019 not in Mehran and Masrror but also in PASNI AFB.

 

[Penguin]

^^^ agree with all you said but didn't understood the context .

India may have more of a lot of things military, but it doesn´t have that to deal solely with Pakistan. Which means that of all available means, only a portion can be applied against that country (and the greater the potential threat of other countries, the smaller that proportion). So, e.g. the ´swarms of this or that aircraft´ may never materialize, even though they are in inventory.

 

[Paan Singh]

India may have more of a lot of things military, but it doesn´t have that to deal solely with Pakistan. Which means that of all available means, only a portion can be applied against that country (and the greater the potential threat of other countries, the smaller that proportion). So, e.g. the ´swarms of this or that aircraft´ may never materialize, even though they are in inventory.

dont agree.Even during kargil war,IN effectively did blockade and this was one of the reason that sharif had to run for rescue.

The myth of not using whole power have already been shattered in kargil war.Pakistanis never expected that india will bring artillery guns and will bogged down under nuclear threat but we did .

 

[Abingdonboy]

India may have more of a lot of things military, but it doesn´t have that to deal solely with Pakistan. Which means that of all available means, only a portion can be applied against that country (and the greater the potential threat of other countries, the smaller that proportion). So, e.g. the ´swarms of this or that aircraft´ may never materialize, even though they are in inventory.

This theory only stands if the "others" whom you refer to, rear their heads in a time of crisis between India and Pakistan. If not, as was the case in 1999 then India can afford to use almost its entire military arsenal that it has built up to face multiple enemies against only 1.

Naturally some forces would have to be kept in reserve just in case.

 

[Penguin]

I´m not referring to ´smallish´ localized conflict (previous discussion focussed on the use of cruise missiles, possibly nuclear tipped, which suggests all out war, which automatically mean interest by of not involvement of major powers e.g. US, China, Russia i.e. the big game)

 

[brahmin]

''To be frank'' India should take care of its poor before dreaming of building a blue-water navy. Investing in blue water navy for India is a waste of resources. Resources that can feed and provide sanitation to its poor population... DONT EVEN TRY TO TROLL!

Pakistan military needs to make a massive investment and progress in the naval sector. Navy is the life-line of this country that ensures a flow of our resources through sea

Its you who went to India , this thread is about Pakistan , dont go offtopic , so please read my post again . Concentrate first on your major problems and then go for secondary .

 

[Gentelman]

Its you who went to India , this thread is about Pakistan , dont go offtopic , so please read my post again . Concentrate first on your major problems and then go for secondary .

he just wanted to say that you should don't worry about other's matter and kindly take your a$$ away……otherwise it can badely be kicked
well security along with power sector is the major issue of this country along with health and also education……

 

[brahmin]

he just wanted to say that you should don't worry about other's matter and kindly take your a$$ away……otherwise it can badely be kicked
well security along with power sector is the major issue of this country along with health and also education……

i would advice both of you to be away if it hurts your a$$es as this is a forum where registered members can post their expressions not to go offtopic . make sure that you wont lick leave alone kick . you want to discuss anything means come to the respective thread or create a new one .
ontopic :
You can be defensive by installing anti ship missiles along your coastal lines . Trying to counter IN by your navy would be worthless considering the current state of Pakistan .

 

[Neptune]

I think all muslim countries relied on their army before. And now they are relying on their air forces. But IMO, Muslim nations should also improve their navies as well. And Pakistan comes to one of the top places in this navy thing when criticise PN. Doesn't matter how long coastline you are obligated to defend. It's all about improving the capabilities of both Maritime Industry and Pakistani Armed Forces. Not mention about encountering the Foreign Naval Task Forces and Indian, Iranian threats.