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Pakistan: The ‘birth’ of a problem

That's an interesting observation.

It would be interesting to see the Muslim/non-Muslim economic breakdown at the state level as opposed to national averages.

Indian Muslims populations in these four states namely West Bengal.Assam,UP and Bihar constitute roughly 60% or more of the total muslim population of india.

Now since these states are economically backward ,not just muslims ,but hindu majority population in these are equally backward if not more .
 
Indian Muslims populations in these four states namely West Bengal.Assam,UP and Bihar constitute roughly 60% or more of the total muslim population of india.

Now since these states are economically backward ,not just muslims ,but hindu majority population in these are equally backward if not more .

Would it be fair to compare them to Balochistan and/or Sarhad in Pakistan, i.e. states which are providing mineral resources fueling growth in the rest of the country, but which are not getting their fair share of the national budget?
 
Would it be fair to compare them to Balochistan and/or Sarhad in Pakistan, i.e. states which are providing mineral resources fueling growth in the rest of the country, but which are not getting their fair share of the national budget?

No no,while Balochistan is mineral resource rich ,but population wise very small.

On other hand except Bihar(jharkhand area) and Assam to some extent none these areas are so much mineral resource rich,but among the most densely populated areas of india.

And Political strenght wise also,states like UP,Bihar,WB are very powerful.

So its not lack of budget allocations or central govt support,but mainly due population explosion,corruption and prolonged bad governance .. etc resposible for poverty and backwardness which affects both muslims and larger hindu population of these states.
 
As regards Indian secularism and how Pakistan affects Indian Muslims:

We have had various stories from Mumbai regarding how even rich Muslims had difficulty in buying houses.

Now it's true that housing societies are private organizations and they have the right to have their own norms - even if it amounts to favouring one community over others. There was a landmark case that went upto the Supreme Court on how a Parsi housing society has the right to favour Parsis. There are also issues like vegeterianism etc.

Although there is no institutionalized discrimination, we also have to consider if there is a any aversion towards Muslims on a personal level.

If there is any such aversion, then we have to analyze where it comes from. This is a complex question involving many issues including the history of Islamic invasions, Islamic doctrines and social practices, and the tendency amongst people to make generalizations about entire communities.

But it must be recognized that the continuous terrorist attacks in the name of Islam, many emanating from Pakistan, have played a very big role in shaping perceptions of Islam all over the world. Since India is the primary victim of such terrorist attacks, the negative impressions may be particularly strong there. That is something that Muslim minorities all over the world have to live with. It is certainly unfortunate that Indian Muslims are affected by the fallout from terrorist attacks. Indian Muslims very much recognize the negative role Pakistan has played, and that was the sentiment that came out so eloquently in the article that started this thread.
 
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Quick Solution will be to partition the remaining India again and create Pakistan II and India.
 
Quick Solution will be to partition the remaining India again and create Pakistan II and India.

Sell the idea to your fellow Indians and you lot do whatever you want with your country.

Somehow I suspect that like many of your other useless one liners, this was merely posted to bait people and hijack the thread. :disagree:
 
Sell the idea to your fellow Indians and you lot do whatever you want with your country.

Somehow I suspect that like many of your other useless one liners, this was merely posted to bait people and hijack the thread. :disagree:

You didn't say if you like or not like the idea?
 
The Greek and Roman civilizations still live in today's language, laws, political systems, mathematics, philosophy, and in many other ways.

Whereas the Pakistani connection to the IVC is no greater than their connection to African ancestors.
And what political system and language did the IVC have?

The IVC was a far older civilization than the Greeks, and barring the claims of some Indian hacks, the language remains undeciphered and much of the details of the civilization remain unknown.

What contributions to philosophy, mathematics and 'many other ways', that can directly be attributed to the IVC, should Pakistanis follow?

Did they invent 2+2=4 and Pakistanis insist that it equals 5? Why would Pakistanis, or any other nation, not follow valid scientific principles and implement feasible and pragmatic philosophies?

Pakistanis are closer to the IVC, by virtue of being descendants, than most Indians at least, given that so little about their way of life is known.

Ciao.

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------

You didn't say if you like or not like the idea?

You didn't read my post Mr. MilesToTroll - what you and your fellow Indians want to do with your country is all up to you.
 
You didn't read my post Mr. MilesToTroll - what you and your fellow Indians want to do with your country is all up to you.

Never mind, but personally I think if implemented correctly a second partition can immediately solve all South Asian problems and in some ways will provide a level playing field for India, Pakistan, Pakistan II to compete with the Asian Tiger economies.

Got to go for lunch...see you later...subway rocks!!!
 
Quick Solution will be to partition the remaining India again and create Pakistan II and India.

And the quicker soultion would be to give them status of Indian Citizens in true sense. Give them sense of ownership viz viz feeling being natives and not outsiders. There would be no need for second partition. Else who knows one day your suggestion might be taken up by them.
 
And what political system and language did the IVC have?

The IVC was a far older civilization than the Greeks, and barring the claims of some Indian hacks, the language remains undeciphered and much of the details of the civilization remain unknown.

What contributions to philosophy, mathematics and 'many other ways', that can directly be attributed to the IVC, should Pakistanis follow?

Did they invent 2+2=4 and Pakistanis insist that it equals 5? Why would Pakistanis, or any other nation, not follow valid scientific principles and implement feasible and pragmatic philosophies?

Pakistanis are closer to the IVC, by virtue of being descendants, than most Indians at least, given that so little about their way of life is known.

Ciao.

Quite. Since not much is definitively known about the IVC, you can't really have any civilizational connection or continuity.

The Indian civilizational identity begins with the Vedas, and it continues to this day. Whether or not the IVC was Vedic cannot be definitively said.
 
Pakistani's here are saying, that blaming the concept of pakistan is one of the root cause of discrimination against muslims is wrong.

And indians here are saying creation of pakistan might be one of th reason for discrimination.

I think the indian mentality here is comming out of the secular thought against the reasons that caused partions which many indians believe is solely religious.

But many of our pakistani friends still say that muslims are, will and always be descriminated, by hindus. But any secular pearson in this country would not agree with that stuipd notion, coz that would be the same as equating all muslims as terrorists.. And more over If that was the case, we would have been segregated into millions of countries based on caste, religion, social status, or even gender/.. :lol:

Now i am sure we have reached a situation that we dont care what happens in pakistan unless it have a potential to affect india.. and vice versa. But i still think that one of the reason for this extrimist hindu hate or descrimination is partition.

And can somebody explain me, that are we discussing that only pakistan is the sole reason or pakistan is ONE of the many reasons.
 
And the quicker soultion would be to give them status of Indian Citizens in true sense. Give them sense of ownership viz viz feeling being natives and not outsiders. There would be no need for second partition. Else who knows one day your suggestion might be taken up by them.

I think that "one day" is coming fast at us. I don't think Indians will ever give Muslims "status of Indian Citizens" in true sense. Anyways, it doesn't hurt to be hopeful. Maybe one day all Hindus will convert to Islam and there will not be any need for more partition.
 
I think that "one day" is coming fast at us. I don't think Indians will ever give Muslims "status of Indian Citizens" in true sense. Anyways, it doesn't hurt to be hopeful. Maybe one day all Hindus will convert to Islam and there will not be any need for more partition.
............:D:D:D
 
This article is worth a read. Though I don't like the title....but it is worth sharing...

Pakistan: The ?birth? of problem

The creation of Pakistan was one of the bloodiest incidents of modern history. As a country struggling to free itself from the clutches of imperialist Britain, India was not ready for such bloodshed and division, especially in the name of religion. But, because of Jinnah’s Muslim League and to an extent even Congress, Indians had to face the worst nightmare.

Sixty-three years on, the wound is still fresh and the chasms clear. In the hype and hoopla about the roles of Jinnah and Nehru in partition; we have missed the worst sufferers of the incident, the Indian Muslims.

The plight of Muslims who were opposed to partition could be summed up in the last words of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan that he conveyed to Mahatma Gandhi, “You have thrown us to the wolves.”

But the inevitable happened and thus began the plight of Indian Muslims- those who migrated and those who stayed on in India.

Muhajir

The Muslims of India migrated to Pakistan in the hope of a better future. They thought of living with their ‘own’ people in their ‘own’ land. But it was nothing more than a mere utopia. The bubble burst and the problem of being a ‘Muhajir’ cropped up soon enough.

The sacred word ‘Muhajir’ that was once used for none other than Prophet Muhammad himself, turned derogatory for the migrated Indian Muslims. Far from welcoming them, the natives of Pakistan treated them as second class citizens; as burdens on their society.

This led to the rise of Muhajir Quami Movement (MQM) against the oppressive Pakistan governments. After more than three decades of struggle, though the situation is now better for migrants, still the flares refuse to die down.

Poor economic condition of Indian Muslims

It is no hidden fact that the economic condition of Muslims in India is far from ideal. There are a number of theories that give various reasons for this, like government apathy, lack of education and ignorance, but there is one reason that most miss out, the migration of upper class and rich Muslims to Pakistan.

Though it may sound like a far fetched theory, but one cannot deny that most of the people who migrated to Pakistan were rich landlords. As they say, the cream of Muslims moved away from the country, leaving behind poor Muslims. This disturbed the balance of the society.

The situation further compounded by the government apathy towards Muslims and lack of dedicated plans towards the most downtrodden strata of society.

Since, the number of rich people within the society shrunk, there was not much hope for Indian Muslims apart from depending on government programs for development.

This theory can be justified by sighting the example of the Sikh community. They are among the most progressive in India and the main reason for it is their entrepreneurship and the community help they received, especially as refugees at the time of migration.

The problem of distrust

The worst side effect of the creation of Pakistan is the prevalent distrust among the common people of India on Muslims. Even after 63 years of partition, Indian Muslims are still facing the tag of being ‘Pakistan friendly’.

Immediately after the partition, it had become a problem of sorts for unemployed Muslims to find a job under a Hindu employer, as they were not trusted. This continued for a long time, but eventually things improved.

Though, such problem are non-existent today, the inherent distrust still lingers on. The taunt of having fifth column feelings is faced by almost all Muslims at some point or the other. The worst thing is that not only the illiterate, but even educated people behave in the same manner.

People have just failed to understand that Muslims, who stayed back in India, did not leave the place because they considered it their motherland. It is their love for this country that prompted them to remain here.

Terrorism

The biggest menace of modern India, terrorism is clearly a Pakistan promoted monster. Be it the traditional battleground of Kashmir or the rise of neo-terrorism among the dissatisfied Muslim youth, Pakistan has played a major role.

After Partition, the biggest ploy for Pakistan to destabilise India was terrorism, first in the name of Kashmir’s autonomy and later about India’s perceived apathy towards Muslims. Most of all to avenge the creation of Bangladesh. In these unholy intentions of Pakistan, the Muslims of India became the unsuspecting victims.

Indian Muslims faced the double edged sword, with Pakistan exploiting them for their malicious intentions and Indians suspecting them for their soft corner for Pakistan. This alienated majority of the Muslims from the mainstream.

This compounded the problem further. Then the rise of religious parties like BJP and lack of leadership within the community further led to the disillusionment of Muslims from the system. Incidents like Babri demolition and post Godhra riots further added fuel to the fire and strained relations to breaking point.

Here, if we conclude that the formation of Pakistan is essentially the reason for most, if not all, the problems faced by Indian Muslims, it will not be an exaggeration.

It has been long since the country was partitioned. A whole new generation of Muslims has come which had no role in the partition and which is as Indian as any Hindu or Sikh or Christian would be. They want to contribute in the progress of country. The only thing that they need is an unbiased approach in dealing with them. We need to understand that Muslims are an integral part of India and they are not lacking in patriotism.

The only question here is, are we ready for a paradigm shift? India needs to answer that!

Stop your hate speeches in order to allienate us. I bet you haven't visited Pakistan even. First of all if you recall the Gujraat incident, 4000 indian muslims were burnt alive. No such incident of such magnitude has happened in Pakistan. We are even hospitable with the non muslims here. What to talk about Muhajir muslims.
Secondly, the first thing poor Pakistan and economically weak Paksitan did to Muhajirs was that she provided with basic food needs and shelters. The Pakistani government allotted lands to the Muhajirs who claimed that in India they had had such and such estates. Some Muhajirs even exploited the situation. Then most of the beauraucracy istill now consists of Muhajirs. Because of their higher level of education. MQM was made by the foolish Zia who wanted to oppose Jammat e Islami of Maullana Maudoodi who was being successful in the city of Karachi. MQM has nothing to do with rights of Muhajirs in Paksitan. Altaf Hussain is the biggest terrorist and Muhajirs as well as non Muhajirs all are fed up off the MQM party. So you should take care of and look upon your own country's situation. Because of your oppression on minorities there are six movements in your country. One of them was the movement of Khalistan.
 

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