What's new

Pakistanis look beyond US

third eye

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
18,519
Reaction score
13
Country
India
Location
India
..... and about time too. South Asians have immense potential and would do well anywhere. But will we be able to break the ' US' mirage ?

Many disillusioned Pakistanis look beyond U.S. for work, travel and education

By Tara Bahrampour and Pamela Constable
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, May 24, 2010


A series of international terrorism incidents linked to Pakistanis, including a failed car bombing this month in Times Square, has prompted many Pakistanis who once had deep ties to the United States to look elsewhere for work, education and travel. It has also left some Pakistani Americans feeling uneasy in their adopted homeland.

The stress of living under suspicion has had a palpable effect, Pakistani American community leaders say. Travel agents say bookings between Pakistan and the United States are down, and U.S. visa applications for travel from Pakistan appear to be dwindling. Though the U.S. government has ended a policy implemented after an attempted Christmas Day airplane bombing that involved extra scrutiny for travelers from 14 countries, including Pakistan, many Pakistanis still feel they are being watched.

Times Square bomb suspect Faisal Shahzad "has put us all in this situation where everyone will look at us Pakistani Americans and wonder if they have any connection," said Shaista Mahmood, 54, a community leader who lives in Mount Vernon.

In Pakistan, increased scrutiny of visas and more stringent U.S. airport searches have exacerbated feelings of rejection and discomfort. Many Pakistanis say they do not want to travel to the United States anymore, whether to study, visit relatives or take once-desirable jobs.

Anger and anxiety

"All these U.S. policies have given a whole generation of Pakistanis the psyche that the United States doesn't want us," said Arsalan Ishtiaq, a visa adviser in the city of Rawalpindi who has not received a single U.S. student visa inquiry in two years. "Not only is it much harder to get a visa now, but the few who do get them worry they may get in trouble or implicated in something if they go."

A dozen technology students in Islamabad and Rawalpindi who once would have given anything to work in the United States said they were instead seeking jobs in Britain, Australia, Canada or the United Arab Emirates. Several said they had heard about humiliating searches at U.S. airports and spoke angrily of Pakistanis being branded as Islamist radicals. The Times Square incident, they said, was the last straw.

"Now the Americans will think we are all terrorists," said Asalan Khan, 21, who recently completed a course in cellphone technology and plans to work in South Africa. "Why should we study so hard, take all those tests and pay all those expenses if they are not going to respect us?"

The Times Square incident has generated hundreds of comments by bloggers, columnists and others in Pakistan. Some were perplexed and angry that an apparently successful Pakistani American might be connected to the bomb plot; others warned of new crackdowns and humiliations.

Some younger Pakistanis said friends in the United States have told prospective employers that they are of Indian origin to avoid problems. Others said relatives who are longtime U.S. residents have faced criticism from friends still living in Pakistan, whose views have become much more anti-American in recent years.

"My uncle has been living in the United States for years," said Akmal Abassi, an English language instructor and visa adviser in Rawalpindi. "He still admires the American values of freedom and equality, but now it is much harder for him to convince people here at home." Abassi says the majority of his students now seek advanced degrees in Britain.

Hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis have relatives in the United States, and several said they have decided not to visit them for now, to avoid unpleasant encounters.

'As a parent, it gets scary'

There has been no shift in the number of U.S. citizens of Pakistani origin seeking visas to travel to their native land, said Nadeem Haider Kiani, a spokesman for the Pakistani Embassy in Washington. But he said that such a shift would be hard to gauge until this summer. "Most travel to Pakistan during summer vacation, so we'll have to wait and see," he said.

None of those interviewed in Pakistan said their family members in the United States had encountered personal problems with U.S. authorities. But Adnan Khan, who has lived in the United States for 28 years, said that this summer, for the first time, he will send his wife and daughter alone on the regular family visit to Pakistan and keep his 19-year-old son with him in Walnut, Calif.

"Reports coming out now are that it's five or six hours in the airport," he said, referring to tales of Pakistani travelers, usually young men, being detained for questioning. The last time the Khan family returned from Pakistan, three years ago, the son was pulled aside for questioning. It unsettled the father. "Why is he being separated and why am I not included?" said Khan, president of the Council of Pakistan American Affairs. "As a parent, it gets scary."

The effects of the negative publicity could be lasting, Khan said. "We're going to have a whole generation of kids . . . growing up seeing their parents sitting down every night and the discussion was this whole terrorism thing," he said. "I think they'll need therapy, once this war ends, telling them they're not terrorists."

washingtonpost.com
 
Very timely... I was going to do a blog post about this using some data I have come across recently. Once I've written it out, I'll post it here for you all to take a look at.

In general, I agree with the thesis above. America is no longer attractive to Pakistanis. This is sad and unfortunate, but true. The implications of this shift are not to be measured just in terms of travel etc. but also in terms of the far reaching impact of this mental refocusing. Looking at America as an undesirable place/destination will shape the thinking of the current generation of Pakistanis. This does not mean they will act, in any way, against America. But I think the choices they make as students, business people, media personalities and future leaders will certainly be influenced heavily by their US-agnostic way of thinking; while America was a big consideration in the past, it will no longer be so going forward.

Perhaps this is not a trend unique to Pakistan though... maybe we are here for different reasons, but the wider question may pertain to how the US' influence on hearts and minds across the globe is dwindling. Are we entering the age of Americo-agnosticism?
 
Yes its true, there were around 500,000 Pakistanis (2000) in america but it is around 200,000 now. It shows the amazing drop in Pakistanis living there, coupled with the economic crash and many other policies, it is best to stay away from that place. After this WOT is over and our relations cools down dramatically, we should just distance ourselves from them.

Like the actor, Dilip Kumar of India said:

After hearing these atrocious accounts who wants to travel to such a stupid place when our beautiful India offers Kashmir’s jannat and Kerala’s luminous glory? God forbid if we have to go to such a country.”

We should listen to his advise and apply to our own country.
 
Excellent analysis of fastly proping up current scenario. There were some schollarship guys of Fullbright and US education Council who gaved a presentation abt seeking Higher education in US at my UNI. Gues what, during the QA session they were blasted by loads of questions like " If i go to US, whats the guarantee that they declare me as terrorist and held me captive like they did with Afia Siddiki" , In the End out of so many students they just got a dozen applications and out of those, two of them were Hindus and 2 were Christians.

So
People who once longed to go to US now fear going there as the current incident of FS and Doctor Afia had a great impact . The Image of US has been shattered here in Pakistan.
 
Perhaps this is not a trend unique to Pakistan though... maybe we are here for different reasons, but the wider question may pertain to how the US' influence on hearts and minds across the globe is dwindling.

Could it be because of the recession....Because if we just look at the data of last couple of years there is a gigantic decrease in the number of H1B's filed....

As far as terrorism is concerned then it is a general trend that is associated with Pakistan across western world and not just limited to Americans...


Are we entering the age of Americo-agnosticism?

I kind of disagree because dislike for Americans across the world is not a new phenomenon...However ironically people from the same countries who hate America do not stop pouring from across Globe
 
Could it be because of the recession....Because if we just look at the data of last couple of years there is a gigantic decrease in the number of H1B's filed....

As far as terrorism is concerned then it is a general trend that is associated with Pakistan across western world and not just limited to Americans...

The situation in America is quite unique. Actually, the number of Pakistanis in almost all other parts of the world, including other western countries - especially Canada - have been going up significantly. It is ONLY the US that this reversal seems to be taking place in. To give you an example, even countries like Germany are seeing a great influx of Pakistanis. In places like Australia, the numbers of Pakistanis have increased and they have not borne the brunt of such public ethnic targeting as say Indians have experienced Down Under.


I kind of disagree because dislike for Americans across the world is not a new phenomenon...However ironically people from the same countries who hate America do not stop pouring from across Globe

I'll try and find it for you and post it here, but there was a recent survey done which showed that the feelings against America have significantly increased in almost all parts of the world, other than in India (and from memory, perhaps Israel). I believe the nuclear deal was one GW Bush contribution which caused Indians to think positively about the US. However, other than these two outliers, every country on earth generally had a drop in their opinion of the US.
 
Yes its true, there were around 500,000 Pakistanis (2000) in america but it is around 200,000 now. It shows

Do you have a reliable reference to these numbers? Don't think the drop is this substantial.
 
Do you have a reliable reference to these numbers? Don't think the drop is this substantial.

The actual number of Pakistanis residing in US was very high around 2000, there was a sudden drop whereby 45000 left or were deported.

Al Jazeera English - Americas - Big issues hit 'Little Pakistan'

My figures might be a bit off, ok they are probably way off but you should get the idea.

Here is data from 2008 which lists Pakistani in US at 271,428

Migration Information Source - Spotlight on the Foreign Born of Pakistani Origin in the United States

According to this reports there were 600,000 in 2005.

http://ir.ide.go.jp/dspace/bitstream/2344/839/1/196_oda.pdf

I am not sure if these reports take into considerations oversees Pakistani residents or just naturalized citizens alone. Perhaps if you go through them and find the relevant information.

Just do not quote my original figure, it is a word of mouth thing that I use very often. :lol:
 
I'll try and find it for you and post it here, but there was a recent survey done which showed that the feelings against America have significantly increased in almost all parts of the world, other than in India (and from memory, perhaps Israel). I believe the nuclear deal was one GW Bush contribution which caused Indians to think positively about the US. However, other than these two outliers, every country on earth generally had a drop in their opinion of the US.

Please do so whenever you get the time...Indians have been vary of American Govt. for 5 decades and tend to start thinking the other way after famous Clinton Visit in late 90's....Bush picked up the positive vibes and build on top of it....However even though Indian's have lot of grudge against lot of Obama policies yet i don't remember anyone in my family saying evil things about America even though they sided with Pakistan during 1971 war and my family(extended) happen to have many decorated officers...May be its because of the great economic ties that too country enjoy...
 
Yes its true, there were around 500,000 Pakistanis (2000) in america but it is around 200,000 now.

I am not sure of these numbers. I think there were about 200,000 in 2000 and the last census in 2006 had the number at 271,000. I have not done a thorough check but used Wikipedia's reference articles. If these numbers are true though, that still is still pretty indicative of the trend*. I am sure Indians and Chinese have had significant increases to their numbers in this time period.

* It will be helpful if someone can post reliable references to the causes - recession, discrimination, opportunities back home, migration to Canada en-route to US immigration.
 
isn't it same from last 9 yrs?, thanks to 9/11, around majority of the middle class & lower class are now avoiding USA (Hard to get visa is also one reason for them), but even higher class now try to stay away from US travel because of non-hostile behavior from US customs/air police & also their looking at pakistan with suspicion, (don't believe compare the statistics of migration ratio of pakistanis to us in 90s & 00s )

Failed car bomb might improve Pakistanis misery throughout all phase for entering US, but this trend has been seen from last 9 years, that pakistanis avoid US, and they prefer canada, uk and Australia more then US
 
I think it's good they are no longer going to the U.S its better to go to a country where they are safe.
With the B.S their media and government spews about pakistan it should be declared a hostile country i don't see why they should reap the benefits of our skilled workers.
 
Where i live in the U.S. there are many pakistanis and they are very friendly people. Everybody is friendly and there is no hateful tension, Many Americans Know the world hates us, but still, in most parts of America, nobody hates the middle East or other parts of the world. And whats this about us being a hostile country? It should be the other way around with Pakistan
 

Back
Top Bottom