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RBS-70 Bolide Mk-II missiles, sights supplied to Pakistan

Isn't RBS 70 too heavy for portable, consider the amount payload and range.
In Pakistan army it is used as mobile air defense unit mounted on M113, not as manpad carried by infantry.
RBS 70 would be basically used against Israeli armed UAVs and High in Mountain against any flying object.
Nope. It is meant to counter any sort of threat flying in its range. Be it UAV, gunship or Air craft. Its part of strike corp.
These technology are from 90's and Pakistan got it very cheap and they are retired by Swedish force now.
Nope. Its Modern technology though not latest. Many countries operate them including Sweden, UAE, Australia, Brazil and Singapore to name few of modern militaries.
RBS 70 will be used in Battlefield against Indian moving column (APC, Tanks, Artillery and Battle field Mgmt Radars).
Nope. Air defense. For anti tank role many other options exist.
India does not have answer for these VORSHAD at present, however our moving column will be cover by some of the below system.
I believe Tunguska, Osa will full fill this role effectively.
 
In Pakistan army it is used as mobile air defense unit mounted on M113, not as manpad carried by infantry.

download-1-jpg.349836


Nope. It is meant to counter any sort of threat flying in its range. Be it UAV, gunship or Air craft. Its part of strike corp.
That is what I said, its more effective in mountain and low flying object.

Nope. Its Modern technology though not latest. Many countries operate them including Sweden, UAE, Australia, Brazil and Singapore to name few of modern militaries.
In Your dreams its a modern technology. I told its from 90's

Nope. Air defense. For anti tank role many other options exist.
Read the article its say's it can be used or both land and Air targets.

I believe Tunguska, Osa will full fill this role effectively.
Can you please enlighten me how. Please read my full article.

India does not have answer for these VORSHAD at present, however our moving column will be cover by some of the below system.

https://defence.pk/threads/russia-offers-to-upgrade-sam-strela-10m3-for-india.376570/#post-7178461

https://defence.pk/threads/indias-an...uk-mb-deep-modernization.366043/#post-8879915

https://defence.pk/threads/informati...gm-indias-new-interest-against-drones.456555/
 
Did I ask you to quote me ? Keep your idiotic suggestions to yourself.

This is forum. If you write gibberish, people will try to amend you.
You don't want to be amended and wanna remain in denial?
Go ahead joker.

I know one thing though.
You did not run to the manager when it came to RBS as a MANPAD

But when it came to IRIS-T only did you remember him.

Don't worry, you are exposed anyway.
People know you are current affairs defunct dude.
 
Welcome to Modern Times buddy.
You are standing on weak grounds.
Pak army RBS 70 Mounted on M113.jpg
10432961_224485831095115_8197701272554214087_n.jpg
vlcsnap-2016-11-07-20h20m58s595.png

In Your dreams its a modern technology. I told its from 90's
As I said, Its modern technology but not latest technology. Its upto you to put it limit of 90s or 10s.

Read the article its say's it can be used or both land and Air targets.
I know its for both but for PA it is meant primarily for air defense role. For anti armor PA got many other options.

Can you please enlighten me how. Please read my full article.

India does not have answer for these VORSHAD at present, however our moving column will be cover by some of the below system.

https://defence.pk/threads/russia-offers-to-upgrade-sam-strela-10m3-for-india.376570/#post-7178461

https://defence.pk/threads/indias-an...uk-mb-deep-modernization.366043/#post-8879915

https://defence.pk/threads/informati...gm-indias-new-interest-against-drones.456555/
I was speaking strictly about short air defense systems.
Of course Mobile Near Medium range options also exist on both sides.........
 
download-1-jpg.349836


In Your dreams its a modern technology. I told its from 90's
Read the article its say's it can be used or both land and Air targets.

The technology to ride on a laser beam is still modern.
The only real limitation is range, so it needs to be complemented by a long range missile.

The article says nothing about attacking land target.
It does mention attacking airplanes targeting land targets
 
This is forum. If you write gibberish, people will try to amend you.
You don't want to be amended and wanna remain in denial?
Go ahead joker.

I know one thing though.
You did not run to the manager when it came to RBS as a MANPAD

But when it came to IRIS-T only did you remember him.

Don't worry, you are exposed anyway.
People know you are current affairs defunct dude.

Have you even tried to find out if IRIS-T is going to replace RBS-70 or, not ? I have anyway wasted too much time on you. Welcome to ignore list.
 
Sorry but if true the location of ammo should not be discussed here.

News Chennals have showed it.

The technology to ride on a laser beam is still modern.
The only real limitation is range, so it needs to be complemented by a long range missile.

The article says nothing about attacking land target.
It does mention attacking airplanes targeting land targets

It is complemented by FM-90 and LY-80E and radar guided AAAs.
 
well LCH does has chaffs and flairs plus its been designed to fight in confortable flight altitude of 5.5 km to 6.2 Km but its fliet cieling with full load is 6.5 which can increase to beyond 7Km if the load is lesser as LCH was designed with same kind of terrain in mind and with same kind of MANPAD SAMS in mind
Ever herd of close air support? If all choppers are forced to stay at max altitude then they are flying ducks for PAF falcons and longer range SAMs. Btw Bolide does not use IR system so if you spend entire IAF fleet CHAFF and Flairs it can still kill the target cuz it is optically guided ;)
 
The technology to ride on a laser beam is still modern.
The only real limitation is range, so it needs to be complemented by a long range missile.

The article says nothing about attacking land target.
It does mention attacking airplanes targeting land targets
Hi dear @A.P. Richelieu
I fail to understand as to how the technology to ride laser beam is latest?It is not even fire and forget! The operator has to constantly point the beam to the target till the missile hits it. I find it hard to accept anything that doesnt have "fire and forget" as truly modern. Fire and forget comes from onboard seekers(either IIR or MMW in case of small range MANPAD)! The guidance laws to steer a missile towards a target in case of lets say an IIR/MMW guided missile are hell lot more complex as compared to any beam rider. I will explain you the basics in very simple terms-Kindly Note I am only talking about small manpads but a lot of things are equally applicable to any fire and forget BVRAAM.
The entire control system can be divided into two major parts-
(A) Guidance Laws--thats the crux as it renders fire and forget capability
(B) Various control laws to control angular displacement and angular rates by controlling the control surfaces.Like flight patch controller,rate controller etc.

#A
Guidance law is almost always coupled with a sensor and a kalman filter.
los_2.png

The sensor can measure various things like range to the target(LOS range),closure rate,LOS rate(the rate of rotation of LOS vector in the picture above:LOS angle is angle between the inertial axis and the LOS vector)--as we can see in the picture above,LOS vector is turning in anti clockwise sense and it is natural to think that missile would have to also turn in anti clock wise fashion in order to intercept the target. Or in other words missile velocity vector would have to turn anti clock wise at a rate "faster" than the rate of turning of LOS vector in order to have a successful interception. This ratio of rate of turning of missile velocity vector and LOS vector is captured in a constant known as "navigational constant"--normally it is 4:1 or 5:1.

So,after reading all of this,one might naturally ask,what is it that "guidance law" provide?
Guidance law provides nothing but lateral acceleration such that the LOS rate is always 0! It basically tells #B(various flight controllers) to bring the LOS rate to 0. From basic calculus we see that if derivative of a variable is 0,then it means that variable is constant. What missile does is --it makes the LOS angle constant throughout itz journey. A constant LOS angle means both missile and target are on collision course!!

Now the basic guidance law takes the form-
Ac=N*v*(lambda_dot)
where Ac is the lateral acceleration perpendicular to either LOS vector of missile velocity
N=navigational constant-it determines the rate of turning of missile velocity vector vis-a-vis LOS vector
v=closure rate
lambda_dot= rate of change of LOS angle.
Now the point is,this fundamental PN(known as proprtional navigation in control engineering) might not work in modern missiles,hence more advanced mathematical constructs are often brought to bear alongwith PN law.For instance optimal control and Dynamic Inversion techniques are often employed with PN to make much more effective.I work with Dynamic Inversion.

#B
Once you have computed your lateral acceleration needed to bring LOS rate to 0,you feed this information to various controllers that in turn control the servo motors. For instance attitude controller,rate controller etc.
 
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Hi dear @A.P. Richelieu
I fail to understand as to how the technology to ride laser beam is latest?It is not even fire and forget! The operator has to constantly point the beam to the target till the missile hits it. I find it hard to accept anything that doesnt have "fire and forget" as truly modern. Fire and forget comes from onboard seekers(either IIR or MMW in case of small range MANPAD)! The guidance laws to steer a missile towards a target in case of lets say an IIR/MMW guided missile are hell lot more complex as compared to any beam rider. I will explain you the basics in very simple terms-Kindly Note I am only talking about small manpads but a lot of things are equally applicable to any fire and forget BVRAAM.
The entire control system can be divided into two major parts-
(A) Guidance Laws--thats the crux as it renders fire and forget capability
(B) Various control laws to control angular displacement and angular rates by controlling the control surfaces.Like flight patch controller,rate controller etc.

#A
Guidance law is almost always coupled with a sensor and a kalman filter.
View attachment 350447
The sensor can measure various things like range to the target(LOS range),closure rate,LOS rate(the rate of rotation of LOS vector in the picture above:LOS angle is angle between the inertial axis and the LOS vector)--as we can see in the picture above,LOS vector is turning in anti clockwise sense and it is natural to think that missile would have to also turn in anti clock wise fashion in order to intercept the target. Or in other words missile velocity vector would have to turn anti clock wise at a rate "faster" than the rate of turning of LOS vector in order to have a successful interception. This ratio of rate of turning of missile velocity vector and LOS vector is captured in a constant known as "navigational constant"--normally it is 4:1 or 5:1.

So,after reading all of this,one might naturally ask,what is it that "guidance law" provide?
Guidance law provides nothing but lateral acceleration such that the LOS rate is always 0! It basically tells #B(various flight controllers) to bring the LOS rate to 0.

A fire and forget missile can be fooled by chaff or flares, while a beam rider is virtually impossible to to fool.
To fool a beam rider, you have to attack the launcher, after the launch and before the hit.
That is pretty difficult.
You claim complexity makes things more modern, and I disagree.
It is two different philosophies, each with its advantages.
 
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A fire and forget missile can be fooled by chaff or flares,
Hi my dear @A.P. Richelieu
This is not entirely correct,the IIR seeker has an "imager" as well. You can not fool it easily by chaff and flares.Kindly note,I am specifically talking about Imaging Infra Red and not just IR. Image correlation is an integral part of the algorithm that runs inside the onboard computer my friend. This is almost always followed by "CENTROID TRACKING" . I seriously dont know where you get your information from,But you can fool a beam rider by "obstructing" the beam not to mention the inherent limitation on range of a laser.
before you compose your reply,I will strongly suggest you to read engineering literature on
1)IMAGE CORRELATION
2)CENTROID TRACKING
It will save a lot of our time!Thanks
 
Hi my dear @A.P. Richelieu
This is not entirely correct,the IIR seeker has an "imager" as well. You can not fool it easily by chaff and flares.Kindly note,I am specifically talking about Imaging Infra Red and not just IR. Image correlation is an integral part of the algorithm that runs inside the onboard computer my friend. This is almost always followed by "CENTROID TRACKING" . I seriously dont know where you get your information from,But you can fool a beam rider by "obstructing" the beam not to mention the inherent limitation on range of a laser.
before you compose your reply,I will strongly suggest you to read engineering literature on
1)IMAGE CORRELATION
2)CENTROID TRACKING
It will save a lot of our time!Thanks

In order to obstruct the beam, you have to be between the launcher and the missile.
How do you propose to do that?
Have you any example of success?
I think the chances of fooling an IIR sensor is higher.
People are working on laser based technologies to defeat IIR seekers.

The limited range is already mentioned earlier in the thread, but the range of RBS 70
is not very different from the typical MANPAD, so it does not make the system
more or less modern.
 
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