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I don't know. Feels like Wagner is now his family. He talks to the prisoners prior to recruiting those, shows the bodies of his men that died, interacts with them, now realizes how this war started on false pretenses, etc.


It really does. At most I figure he just really be pissed off and refuse to continue on fighting in Ukraine. But he went above and beyond that.
He can't just refuse to fight, the MOD had order them to register as Russian army, they are taking those men out of his command and his company, Prigozhin would either have to recruit somewhere or he would lose his business. That's a big no to him.

So what happens now?

Will Wagner fight a two front war against Ukraine and Russia now?

Or will they join Ukraine?
Unless Prigozhin already had big support in this, he is going to lose, he may exile himself someplace, but I am not sure his business is going to be continue.

You can most likely count Wagner out of the war in Ukraine. Whether or not RUF absorbed these Wagner people is another issue, problem is, they probably will not unless Russia can pay them, considering they are Merc to begin with.....
 
These Wagner guys look American holy shit, mag carrier, armor and shit, look like CoD.
Dude, even regular American soldier now don't look like this. No Tac-Com, no side plate, no PRC and no light sabre (not the star war sabre, it's a thing we use to direct air strike) no QuikPak, and not all of them have knee pad, they are like what? 80 bucks?

They look like when I was in the Army 20 years ago. Go in with barebone equipment, they aren't going to survive more than 7 days in war with these.
 
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Usually these characters like Prigozhin become part of the Establishment. That happens when you cozy up to the Generals. Not the other way around. What he is doing is what has happened in the Islamic and Christian world for 2000 years. Small band of people or tribes rose up and became part of our history. Maybe that is what hes looking for.


Prigozhin wouldn't be talking like this without allies in the Kremlin. He's determined to see the back of Putin and may well succeed.
 
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Reminds me of the novel Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy at the end of the book where the Russian military decided to start a coup after starting WW3 on false pretenses.
I am thinking more Asterix
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Ups…Putin is angry.

In the speech to the nation Putin shows sign of desperation.

“Knife into Russia’s back”.

State emergency is declared over Moscow and surroundings.


Liveblog zum Krieg in der Ukraine: Stich in den Rücken: Auf diesem vom Pressedienst des russischen Präsidenten veröffentlichten Foto spricht Wladimir Putin zur Nation.

Foto: HANDOUT/AFP

"Stich in den Rücken": Auf diesem vom Pressedienst des russischen Präsidenten veröffentlichten Foto spricht Wladimir Putin zur Nation.
 
From 3 days to capture Kyiv to "3 days to capture moscow". You would tell me one year ago a PMC would lead a mutiny in Russia, i would have simply laughed at you.

Let them fight and kill each others.
 
He is a small fraction of the overall Russian military power. He will be silenced soon.
Most of Russias military power is centered around Ukraine. What remains is not likely to be as experienced as the Wagners. If Russia withdraws from Ukraine perhaps with the exception of Crimea they may free some soldiers which will be behind Wagner and cannot stop a rush on Moscow.
What Wagner does not have is a logistical base that delivers supplies and ammunition. He might be able to draw on stocks in regions under his control, but is still on a time schedule.
 
1) Well, that's what he wanted now, to be in charge, or maybe not with Putin In charge. I mean, contract is one thing, you had to have people to complete contracts. And tell me what you think if you are Prigozhin and MOD issue an order having all Wagner sign a contract with Russia MOD?

2) What's Putin was doing is bad for Prigozhin business. He could have gotten contract from whoever in charge next (it may well be him if this coup turns out great) but for him, his people is more important asset than any contract, I mean, now, even if he have contract, who do he send to complete those?

3) On the other hand, you don't use merc to fight a war, you use them on and off, I know a lot of Blackwater (Xe now/) KBR and G4S guy, you don't hire them full time like how Russia did with these Wagner dude, you hire them in term, and pay a fixed fee, I was approached by KBR to do intel work for them in high risk zone, they are paying me $500,000 per contract, and that is 3 months on 3 months off with a vacation of my choice, sure, you won't pay $500,000 for driver or security guard but they also don't work 12 months on, and these merc have been deployed 15 months straight, say if you pay them the rate Blackwater pay their driver, you pay 15,000 a month, 15 months, that's 225k per head, instead of 40k you are paying those blackwater guy, and you are talking about 50,000+ Wagner soldier, you do the maths.

I am not saying it had no other issue than money, but money is pretty big one. I can't see how otherwise it would went over the threshold.


4) Unless they can have a peaceful transition, which is highly unlikely, Russia would need to redeploy stuff DURING UKRIANIAN COUNTER OFFENSIVE. Which is not going to be optimal.

5) The war in Ukraine is finished for Russia, even with a peaceful transition, they won't trust anyone now other than people they can control, and the people they can directly control is shit. That's problem 1. Problem 2 is if they take out Wagner, they would lose a sizable chunk of combat power in Ukraine, even if these Wagner folks is not going to do anything in Russia. They aren't going back to Ukraine, which mean you will expect a sizeable push from the Ukrainian in the coming weeks once all these are done. And that would deal a killer blow to the Russian. And finally, you have other fringe group fighting in Ukraine. If they can do it to Putin Chef, they can do it to anyone, Kadyrov or anyone, they aren't going to support Russia from now on, even if they do, Kremlin would probably will have suspicious on them.

1) Putin was very patient with Prig for the past 3 months. Bakmuth got to him because he was right. Shoigun is extremely incompetant, could be corrupt but I have proof of his incompetance not his corruption. Prig was targetting Shoigun the most. I feel he just wanted more attention from Putin. Taking out the new contract basically means now the world has entered a new phase. You can openly declare your militias without reprucssions. France, US and now Russia. This was a change which Prig wasnt ready for and I guess it had something to do with the events that are happening.
2) The coup is just a smoke screen and nothing more. It will be over very very soon. maybe in weeks if Prig is smart he will go to jail otherwise he will be killed. Problem is no one in Russia really likes Prigozhin. So yes he will make a scene. He will also try to keep KIA's to a minimum as to not affect his bargaining chances. In the end this drama is being done for one thing and one thing alone. Get Shoigun out. Get someone he likes in. I doubt it will happen with Putins speech now. So his best case would be to stretch this for a week with being holed in a military facility. Russias best option would be to contain him in there for a few weeks and then negotiate. A lot of juggling will be needed. Make Prig a matryr could be bad for Putin.

3) Mercs are not hired in peace times like soldiers. The cost of a merc is limited compared to a volunteer soldier. Conscripts are cheap since they are plucked during war time. so 3m a year for you 6 months of work would be cheaper for activated paid government resources. Its a win win for a "Experienced" asset who has already been pumped full of training that is very expensive by the government during the time they were not slap assing and still taking that time off while being paid. So in money terms I would say Mercs are an extremely good deal compared to a standing army. No one signs up during war for the benefits. You can check US campaigns to hire out of high school have failed that they have done away with having a diploma to become a grunt. But I agree. You can not compare them to a professional army for reasons other than money. We see that in the case here. Also the Wagner soldiers have contracts that are the same as you suggested. They have 2 year terms. The Convict ones had 6 months and then a resigning option.

4) Putins not going anywhere with this nuisance. Its a hickup and the worst possible move for Ukraine would be to make that counter attack. They will not be moving forces from front lines. They have reserves close to all the hot sites. 2000 men in a base would be okay. The problem would be if they become mobile.

5) Well the war in Ukrain is just begun. It will be continuing till we both are alive in one way or the other. Peace treaties and handshakes are a thing of the past. There was a Minsk agreement before too. No one cared. Problem 2 is not really a problem. Lets see how this unfolds. Depending on the time frame 20k plus will be reintegrated and they will go back to Ukraine under a new banner. Khadarov has his own province. Fanatical army that is well taken care of by him. Yes it is his army and there are things that could change. Lets see if he talks crap then we will discuss him as well.
 
Congrats

Prigozhin’s army has taken over the headquarters of Russia southern military theater “Rostov am Don”.


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In diesem Screenshot aus einem am 24. Juni 2023 veröffentlichten Video sollen Wagner-Söldner im Hauptquartier des südlichen Militärbezirks der russischen Streitkräfte in Rostow am Don zu sehen sein.
 
I think it s the time of chechens to intervene in the scene and take charge of Russia, Russia needs a strong leader, this is chaos.

I think only chechens can save Russia now.
 
I think it s the time of chechens to intervene in the scene and take charge of Russia, Russia needs a strong leader, this is chaos.

I think only chechens can save Russia now.

According to BBC News just now - Chechens have "vowed" to stand behind Putin and put down the "mutiny"
 
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