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Russian selection of Su-30MKI over MKK clears up confusion on Superiority

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Russian selection of Su-30MKI over MKK clears up confusion on Superiority
SOURCE : TNN

Among the myriad of Su-30 versions out there, there has always been a debate on which is the most advanced of them all. In particular the versions, operated by the Indian Air Force and the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force, the Su-30MKI and the Su-30MKK, takes center stage. The Su-30MKI is a version of the Su-30MK series, tailored made for India with French, Indian and Israeli avionics, while on the other hand the version operated by the PLAAF has been followed up by an even more advanced version, the Su-30MK2. For long Russia stayed away from the Su-30 series and concentrated on modernizing its Su-27 and developed the new Su-35. Analysts pointed out that only way to end this debate is to closely watch which version was selected by Russia, as this would mean the much awaited stamp of approval from the host country. Russia selected 4 Su-30MK2 which lead to a speculation that the Russian would indeed go for the MKK variety in bulk. However the 4, along with another 14 Su-30M2 variant(which is a simple Su-27UB version)were used to only form a training squadron, not a dedicated Air Superiority Squadron. The wait was over when Russia ordered Su-30SM for an Air Superiority cum Multirole Squadron a couple of months back, which is basically a Su-30MKI with canards, Thrust Vectoring and full Russian avionics instead of a combo of Israeli, French and Indian. The number ordered was 30 with an option for 12 more. In contrast, 48 of the latest Su-35S were ordered. This huge order for the Su-30MKI/SM demonstrates Russian military's confidence in this platform over the Su-30MKK.
http://idrw.org/?p=12176

Sukhoi Su-30SM: An Indian Gift to Russia’s Air Force
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The Defense Ministry and the Irkut Corporation, an affiliate of the United Aircraft Corporation, have signed a supply contract for 30 Su-30SM multirole fighter aircraft, a Defense Ministry spokesman told journalists Thursday, March 22. “Under the contract, Irkut Corporation will build for Russia’s Ministry of Defense 30 planes of this type by 2015,” he said.

Rumors that Irkut, a long-standing exporter, may supply several dozen fighter aircraft to the Russian Air Force began circulating late last year. Now the rumor has become a reality – a contract in black and white.

But why did the Defense Ministry choose the Su-30’s? After all, they have been mostly supplied to customers abroad rather than to the Russian Armed Forces, where just a few planes of this type are in use.

The Su-30, properly speaking, is an entire family of aircraft and the most famous Russian-made (not to be confused with Soviet-made) fighter plane outside of Russia. It was developed in the Soviet Union on the basis of the Su-27UB combat trainer aircraft as a command plane for Air Defense air regiments flying ordinary Su-27 interceptor aircraft.

In 1993, its export version, the Su-30K, was developed, sparking record demand and the sale of several hundred planes.

The family is further subdivided into two parts: the “Chinese” Su-30MKK/MK2, which were produced in Komsomolsk-on-Amur and exported to Venezuela, Indonesia, Uganda, Vietnam, and of course China; and the “Indian” Su-30MKI, manufactured in Irkutsk and purchased by India, Algeria and Malaysia.

The model ordered by the Russian military is a “localized” version of the “Indian” Su-30MKI. Earlier, Komsomolsk-on-Amur delivered to the Air Force four “localized” Su-30MK2’s.

A flying multi-tasker
As a basic platform for the multirole heavy fighter aircraft, the Su-30MKI is remarkable primarily for its universality. It boasts a so-called “open architecture”, making it relatively easy to add new systems in the basic electronic equipment and to use advanced guided weapons (supplied by different manufacturers).

The Su-30MKI sports a Russian radar and optic locator, French navigation and heads-up display systems, Israeli EW and weapon-guidance systems, and Indian computers.

The “Chinese” line is based on a different logic that prescribes parallel installation of new systems that fall short of full integration.

Most likely, the military is attracted by how easy it is to add different weapons and equipment to the Su-30MKI, transforming it into an attack fighter-bomber, a heavy interceptor aircraft, or something else.


Who placed the order?
It is hard to pinpoint who exactly ordered these 30 aircraft. The contract was signed by Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and Irkut President Alexei Fedorov. After the signing ceremony, Serdyukov commented that the planes would “increase the Air Force’s combat power.”

By contrast, Fedorov went on record as saying last summer that the Defense Ministry was going to order 40 aircraft. Later the press reported, citing the Irkutsk aircraft plant’s general director Alexander Veprev, that the deliveries were likely to be made in two installments: the first 28 aircraft were intended for the Air Force and another 12 as an option for naval aviation. Air Force C-in-C Alexander Zelin confirmed the figure of 28 in fall 2011.
As we can see, the first batch of Sukhoi-30’s has been purchased. The remaining 12, as some military sources intimated to the press, were intended for the Black Sea Fleet’s naval aviation.

Given that naval aviation has seen cuts in combat aircraft, it seems logical to reinforce it with heavy Su-30SM two-seaters that are efficient both in air-to-air combat and against ground and surface targets.

Thus far, however, there is no mention of plans to buy the Su-30 for the Navy. Possibly the option will be realized later.

Exporters’ courtesy
There is another simple explanation for choice of the Su-30MKI. Irkut has been churning out these planes for 10 years thanks to its completely streamlined production method. This means that its products are of high quality, relatively cheap (which pleases the Defense Ministry in particular) and will be supplied on time.

It is one thing if, in order to make 30 aircraft, you have to breathe life into an idling plant, to fine-tune (or develop anew) your technological method, buy additional equipment, and – still worse – hire personnel. But it’s quite another if you have been manufacturing standardized aircraft for years and years and can easily divert your workforce to produce an “improved” modification for your own country’s Air Force. The cost of this batch on the side is dramatically lower.

This approach (buying quickly and on the cheap what can be produced immediately) has been growing in popularity in the Russian military. We have mentioned the Su-30M2 combat trainer aircraft intended for the Russian Air Force. The same goes for the carrier-based MiG-29K, which in its present form was developed for the Indian Navy.

This approach is logical in its own way. The military expects certain fundamentally new models that are being tested with some degree of success. The Air Force is eying the T-50, the fifth-generation fighter aircraft, and the Navy has been trying to get into shape its Lada project involving the construction of non-nuclear submarines. The Land Forces have boycotted the purchases of all currently existing armor models, urging manufacturers to invent something totally new.

In the meantime, the Armed Forces will buy cheap, mass-produced, well-equipped, if ordinary, military hardware, like the Su-30SM.
Sukhoi Su-30SM: An Indian Gift to Russia
 
was there any doubt at all, Chinese surely have numbers, we have technology (superior) :)
 
was there any doubt at all, Chinese surely have numbers, we have technology (superior) :)
Yea. :) But tell that to the chinese fan boys. A couple of years back they refused to accept that MKI is superior to MKK/MK2. Also the Pakistanis were saying that Russia the main developer of the Su-30MKI hasn't ordered Su-30MKI, when the funny thing is JF-17 wasn't ordered by the main developer China. This will shut all their mouths.
 
was there any doubt at all, Chinese surely have numbers, we have technology (superior) :)

Nor do we have the numbers.... Less than 100 Su-30MKK and MK2 enter PLAAF/PLANAFservice. While IAF has more than 100 SU-30MKI.

Now we have switch to J-16, domestic version of Su-30MKK/MK2.
 
Was there ever any doubt? Even the most breif analysis of the MKK and MKI clearly shows who is the top dog. The Malaysians and Algerians both wanted MK versions based on the MKI. The MKI comes with most advanced Western/Indian avionics, TVC, canards etc
 
Nor do we have the numbers.... Less than 100 Su-30MKK and MK2 enter PLAAF/PLANAFservice. While IAF has more than 100 SU-30MKI.

Now we have switch to J-16, domestic version of Su-30MKK/MK2.
but wasn't J 16 aa proposed indigenious 4.5 gen fighter, and a testbed for J 20???
Some sources also equated it o the J-XX claimed by many Pakistanis as their own lightwieght 5th gen fighter
 
but wasn't J 16 aa proposed indigenious 4.5 gen fighter, and a testbed for J 20???
Some sources also equated it o the J-XX claimed by many Pakistanis as their own lightwieght 5th gen fighter

J-10B now takeover as testbed for J-20... As for Shenyang new 4.5th/5th gen fighter, I think they haven settle for a destination yet. It will probably debut in 2013 or 2014.

PLAAF will official go for J-10A, J-20 and J-11B/J-15/J-16 as its main inventory..
J-8II and JH-7A will contintue to serve in future but act as second tier.

J-10B most likely will not enter service.
 
^ doesn't people get confused with so many numbers ? what's the purpose when most of them have very small differences .. like one is single seater other two seater etc etc.. ?
 
J-10B now takeover as testbed for J-20... As for Shenyang new 4.5th/5th gen fighter, I think they haven settle for a destination yet. It will probably debut in 2013 or 2014.

PLAAF will official go for J-10A, J-20 and J-11B/J-15/J-16 as its main inventory..
J-8II and JH-7A will contintue to serve in future but act as second tier.

J-10B most likely will not enter service.

isn't Pakistan is expecting J-10B from China???and many Chinese members also claimed that J-10B is possibly in service(whith homegrown engine and AESA)..
 
Its week old news...
I read somewhere but forgot to post it here :)
But as many experts said SU 30 MKI had proved its worthiness!!
An indian gift indeed !! They gave us a platform, in which we developed and gave it back to them :)
 
I saw a similar thread couple days back, somehow these threads do not excite me. Boasting is something that does not goes well with me.
 
i dunno wats the big fuss and chest thumping about..... MKI is designed to be an air superiority fighter while MKK/MKK2 is not. Their purpose is different. I would say its just apples n oranges.
and i agree with indianrabbit, y are ppl so exited when it comes to bragging ???
no offence.
 
isn't Pakistan is expecting J-10B from China???and many Chinese members also claimed that J-10B is possibly in service(whith homegrown engine and AESA)..

China go cheap again.. Despite having second largest military budget, PLAAF still need to manage its fund well. I believe J-10B despite having those goodies upgrade might cost too costly for PLAAF to procure in significant number. That is also the reason why J-10B export to PAF has stalled too. We can't get an agreement on prices as Pakistan side wanted a much lower price tag.

J-11B in fact, in future will form the largest number in PLAAF. Its long legged is its biggest buy point plus 100% domestic made while it offer better WVR anf agility over JH-7A.

Skipping J-10B and we go straight for J-20 for the super high end tier. It offer better stealth, long legged and super agility. The high prices will be justify.
 
China go cheap again.. Despite having second largest military budget, PLAAF still need to manage its fund well. I believe J-10B despite having those goodies upgrade might cost too costly for PLAAF to procure in significant number. That is also the reason why J-10B export to PAF has stalled too. We can't get an agreement on prices as Pakistan side wanted a much lower price tag.

J-11B in fact, in future will form the largest number in PLAAF. Its long legged is its biggest buy point plus 100% domestic made while it offer better WVR anf agility over JH-7A.

Skipping J-10B and we go straight for J-20 for the super high end tier. It offer better stealth, long legged and super agility. The high prices will be justify.

Sorry, but that doesn't really make sense! IF PLAAF wants reduce costs, J10B is the most logical option, because a single engine medium class fighter is much cheaper to operate than a heavy class twin engine J11. Even if you think further to J20, which also is a twin engine heavy class fighter, the J20/J11 combo in large numbers is waaaaay more costly than a J20 / J10 combo.
I think you simply put too much into the J-10B testbed for J-20 point, because testing engines or techs doesn't mean the fighter is outdated or so, just that it is suited to carry these techs. For example, the French are used Mirage 2000 and Dassault Falcon aircrafts for years as a testbed for Rafale radar and optronics. That has no relation to the operational service or the upgrades of the Mirage, it was simply the best fighter for tests:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__A2VG2LiIPk/TJp6D5BzY_I/AAAAAAAAAMg/XvZ2gg72Tpk/s1600/1778510.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2xYOUMa14Wg/TfX4UMeEE9I/AAAAAAAABP8/AA_gT7pM1i0/s1600/7b501mg4682.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pbkSRN8y...CyNcENwPqBk/s1600/mysterexxcwn104orleans2.jpg
 

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