Siachen trgedy: India’s unbounded obstinacy

[S_O_C_O_M]

Siachen trgedy: India’s unbounded obstinacy​

Written by Brig. (Retd) Asif Haroon Raja

In early hours of the morning on 7 April 2012, an extraordinary avalanche struck Battalion HQ of 6 NLI regiment located in Gayari sector of Siachen Glacier. 135 officers, JCOs, men and civilians paid out of defence establishment got buried under 1000 meters wide and over 25 meters high landslide. Round the clock rescue operation is in progress since the day of tragic occurrence despite bad weather and poor visibility. No stone is being left unturned by more than 500 troops employed in digging and excavation works. 18 days have passed but so far no luck. Every Pakistani is deeply anguished over this tragedy.

90 km long and 50 km wide Siachen Glacier situated between Karakorum in the north and Hindu Kush in the west came into limelight when Indian military launched ground cum airborne operation codenamed Meghdoot and clandestinely occupied three major passes Sia La, Gyong La and Bilafond La of the Soltoro Ridge in April 1984. India had been planning for this venture since 1981.

Since the whole of Siachen Glacier was administratively under Pakistan’s control, it impelled Pak Army to rush forward and block Indian advance west of Gyong La. Since then both sides are locked up in mortal combat. Several daring attempts were made by Pak forces to retake captured heights but failed because India had the advantage of higher ground.

India controls about two-thirds of the glacier in the shape of inverted triangle measuring 3500 sq km, which encompasses three passes while Pakistan holds the Gyong La Pass, which overlooks Shyok and Nubra River valleys. Shyok feeds into the Indus. Indians are on a higher plane and conveniently placed to roll down but impassability of terrain and grit of Pakistani defenders has kept them restrained.

For 28 years, troops have been serving in that hostile terrain and severe weather conditions and defending the Motherland. More men have died as a result of terrain and weather hazards than from enemy action. On the average, 100 casualties take place on Pakistan side and 180 on Indian side each year. Over 8000 Indian and Pakistani soldiers have died between April 1984 and April 2012; 5000 suffered by Indian Army and 3000 by Pak Army.

Yet both sides stubbornly hold on to their positions and continue to fight and die on the roof of the world, which is the highest and costliest. No soldier in the world would have been put to such harsh test of human endurance and for so long. Pakistan spends about Rs 15 million a day to maintain a brigade group (4000) at Siachen Glacier, which makes Rs 450 a month and Rs 5.4 billion a year India spends Rs 50 million a day, Rs 1.5 billion a month and Rs 30 billion a year to maintain its seven battalions (7000 troops). India has so far spent $13.5 billion including $3.5 billion incurred on operation Meghdoot.

So far twelve rounds of negotiations have taken place between the officials of two archrivals starting 1985 to settle this issue but to no avail. June 17, 1989 talks had broken the ice and both sides agreed to settle this issue. India consented to demilitarize Siachen by using the term ‘relocating its forces’ instead of the word ‘withdrawing’, well away from disputed heights.

Future positions were to be determined on ground in conformity with Simla Agreement. ‘Present positions’ didn’t figure out at all. The agreement was endorsed by PMs of both countries. However, in the 1992 talks, India at the behest of Indian military backtracked on the plea that current deployment to be first authenticated by Pakistan by marking the positions on maps before redeployment could be carried out.

Obviously Pakistan couldn’t have obliged India since it would have meant legitimizing Indian aggression in violation of Simla Agreement and giving reason to India to make illegal claim over it in its future negotiations. India maintained this stance in 1994 talks as well despite Pakistan having shown flexibility to record existing positions on an annexure but with a caveat in the main text of the agreement that it would not be misused by India to lay legal claim over the vacated areas. It is an open secret that India wants to convert captured territory as a contested region similar to disputed Kashmir.

Indian military argued that without authentication both on maps and written text, it would impel Pak Army to capture strategically important Soltoro Ridge, which overlooks Karakorum Pass, where borders of China, Pakistan and India meet. As such, India uncompromisingly maintained that demilitarization would take place only when Agreed Ground Position Line (AGPL) is accepted. Real reason behind the change of heart was that Indian military didn’t want to lose strategically important Soltoro, which not only helps India in denying Pakistan-China access to reach other, but also in dominating Gilgit-Baltistan and safeguarding Tibet.

Kargil conflict in 1999 further hardened the stance of India. Ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) at the initiative of Pakistan and recommencement of Composite Dialogue in 2004 leading to several rounds of talks on all disputes including Siachen up till late 2008 failed to settle any of the disputes because of India’s unbounded obstinacy.

After Mumbai attacks India stalled the dialogue and refused to renew it till as late as mid 2011 despite Pakistan’s repeated requests. Finally when 12th round of talks on May 30-31, 2011 took place, Pakistan in all sincerity put forward tangible suggestions. It proposed joint monitoring of disengagement process, redeployment positions bounded by Gyong, MJ 9842 and Warshi, preparation of two lists – positions occupied in 1984, and future deployment positions.

India rejected all the proposals and maintained its inflexible stance that AGPL beyond MJ 9842 must be delineated before demilitarization. This was altogether contrary to the earlier sequence of disengagement, redeployment outside the conflict zone and demarcation agreed to in 1989. In order to justify its inflexibility, India of late has been expressing its growing concerns over increasing presence of China in Pakistan’s Northern Areas. Indo-western media has been floating rumors that Chinese have been allowed to set up military bases. This made-up excuse has given added reason to India to maintain its obstinacy over Siachen issue.


It is crystal clear that India is buying time and is least interested in resolving any of the core disputes which include Kashmir, Siachen, Sir Creek and dams on rivers. It grudgingly agreed to resume talks not to settle outstanding disputes but to promote trade and enhance cultural cooperation through people-to-people contacts which are entirely to its advantage. India is keen to consolidate its MFN status to dominate Pakistani markets, to utilize trade route to Afghanistan and Central Asia via Wagah and also to secure its hold over Afghanistan. It however wants to derive all these benefits without ceding anything in return since it is devoid of large-heartedness and intrigue is in its blood. It seems our leaders are all set to grant unilateral trade concessions to India since the US wants it that way.

It is surprising that some of the political leaders, pseudo intellectuals, segment of media, and RAW paid SAFMA and Aman ki Asha having proclivity for India instead of building pressure on India to vacate its illegal occupation of Soltoro ridge, are holding both sides equally responsible for the impasse. Some suggested that Pakistan had been dragging its feet to settle the dispute. Others said Pakistan should agree to record current ground position on a map. They are trying to create an impression as if Pakistan was guilty of defending its territory and are pressing our government to carryout unilateral withdrawal from Siachen. Nawaz Sharif prophesized that he is sure India would follow suit if Pakistan takes the initiative and withdraws the troops.

Some look at Pakistan’s defence budget with contempt. A myth is in circulation that Pak military spends much more than Indian military which is untrue. As per SIPRI, Pakistan defence budget fell from 6.2% of GDP in 1988 to 2.8% in 2009 and that of India from 3.8% to 2.8% of GDP. Pakistan spent $5.685 billion on defence in 2011 as against India spending $44.282. India has made an increase of 17% in its 2012/13 defence budget and allocated $40 billion for defence purchases. Probably anti-military elements have bought the outlandish idea of the US and President Zardari that India poses no threat to Pakistan. Major threat to Pakistan is from India since over70% of its military might is focused toward Pakistan. It has the intentions, military and economic capability and the support of sole super power to opt for a military adventure against Pakistan whenever opportunity comes its way. Those promoting Indian interests at the cost of Pakistan’s interests need to be cautioned.

The tragedy that befell upon 6 NLI can also fall upon any of Army unit of Indian military stationed in a much difficult zone and the disaster could be bigger in magnitude. Gen Kayani has urged India to hasten the process of demilitarization of Siachen Glacier and also settle other disputes so that undue loss of human lives and human sufferings on both sides could be avoided and colossal amounts spent on troop sustenance diverted toward betterment of people’s lives. India’s response has been cautious and lukewarm since it is fancying that given the host of intricate problems in which Pakistan is confronted with, together with Indian sponsored media campaign in the two countries, Pakistan will be amenable to India’s selfish proposals and would carry out unilateral withdrawal from Siachen.

Siachen tragedy should be an eye-opener for the leaders of India and Pakistan and a reminder to the world community to see for itself the cost paid by the forces of two neighbors chiefly because of expansionist policies pursued by India and also because of the backup support provided by the US and other world powers. But for mulishness of India, this tragedy wouldn’t have occurred. While Siachen Glacier is melting fast due to heavy presence of Indian military, diplomatic ice on Siachen is hardening due to India’s intransigence. The world must exert full pressure on India to stop sacrificing human beings at the altar of puffed up egos and vacate the illegally occupied inverted triangle on Siachen Glacier so that both India and Pakistan could divert the colossal amount spent on the maintenance of troops towards alleviation of poverty in the two countries. Pakistanis have not forgotten the unrelenting pressure applied by the US led G-8 countries in 1999 forcing Pakistan to vacate Kargil heights. Why the civilized world is so hesitant to apply same kind of pressure on India, or it has two set of rules and principles?

The writer is a retired Brig and a freelance columnist.

Siachen trgedy: India

 

[Tamizhan]

The fight for Siachen – The Express Tribune - Brig (r) Jawed Hussain ex-Special Services Group commander

The dispute revolves round the extension of the Line of Control (LOC) beyond a point on the Saltoro Range known by its map reference as NJ 9820420. The demarcated LOC ends at this point —“thence north to the glaciers” is what the Karachi agreement of 1949 states about the extension. According to the Indians, this meant that the LoC should extend northwards along the Saltoro Range up to Sia Kangri.

On the other hand, Pakistan’s stand is that beyond NJ 9820420, the LOC should extend eastward up to the Karakoram pass. Extending the LOC northwards would give the entire Siachen Glacier-Saltoro area to India, while extending it eastward would give it to Pakistan.

 

[Archie]

Well its simple

To some people North means north while to others north means east
talk about failures in geography

 

[Guest01]

Siachen trgedy: India’s unbounded obstinacy​

Written by Brig. (Retd) Asif Haroon Raja

In early hours of the morning on 7 April 2012, an extraordinary avalanche struck Battalion HQ of 6 NLI regiment located in Gayari sector of Siachen Glacier. 135 officers, JCOs, men and civilians paid out of defence establishment got buried under 1000 meters wide and over 25 meters high landslide. Round the clock rescue operation is in progress since the day of tragic occurrence despite bad weather and poor visibility. No stone is being left unturned by more than 500 troops employed in digging and excavation works. 18 days have passed but so far no luck. Every Pakistani is deeply anguished over this tragedy.

90 km long and 50 km wide Siachen Glacier situated between Karakorum in the north and Hindu Kush in the west came into limelight when Indian military launched ground cum airborne operation codenamed Meghdoot and clandestinely occupied three major passes Sia La, Gyong La and Bilafond La of the Soltoro Ridge in April 1984. India had been planning for this venture since 1981.

Since the whole of Siachen Glacier was administratively under Pakistan’s control, it impelled Pak Army to rush forward and block Indian advance west of Gyong La. Since then both sides are locked up in mortal combat. Several daring attempts were made by Pak forces to retake captured heights but failed because India had the advantage of higher ground.

India controls about two-thirds of the glacier in the shape of inverted triangle measuring 3500 sq km, which encompasses three passes while Pakistan holds the Gyong La Pass, which overlooks Shyok and Nubra River valleys. Shyok feeds into the Indus. Indians are on a higher plane and conveniently placed to roll down but impassability of terrain and grit of Pakistani defenders has kept them restrained.

For 28 years, troops have been serving in that hostile terrain and severe weather conditions and defending the Motherland. More men have died as a result of terrain and weather hazards than from enemy action. On the average, 100 casualties take place on Pakistan side and 180 on Indian side each year. Over 8000 Indian and Pakistani soldiers have died between April 1984 and April 2012; 5000 suffered by Indian Army and 3000 by Pak Army.

Yet both sides stubbornly hold on to their positions and continue to fight and die on the roof of the world, which is the highest and costliest. No soldier in the world would have been put to such harsh test of human endurance and for so long. Pakistan spends about Rs 15 million a day to maintain a brigade group (4000) at Siachen Glacier, which makes Rs 450 a month and Rs 5.4 billion a year India spends Rs 50 million a day, Rs 1.5 billion a month and Rs 30 billion a year to maintain its seven battalions (7000 troops). India has so far spent $13.5 billion including $3.5 billion incurred on operation Meghdoot.

So far twelve rounds of negotiations have taken place between the officials of two archrivals starting 1985 to settle this issue but to no avail. June 17, 1989 talks had broken the ice and both sides agreed to settle this issue. India consented to demilitarize Siachen by using the term ‘relocating its forces’ instead of the word ‘withdrawing’, well away from disputed heights.

Future positions were to be determined on ground in conformity with Simla Agreement. ‘Present positions’ didn’t figure out at all. The agreement was endorsed by PMs of both countries. However, in the 1992 talks, India at the behest of Indian military backtracked on the plea that current deployment to be first authenticated by Pakistan by marking the positions on maps before redeployment could be carried out.

Obviously Pakistan couldn’t have obliged India since it would have meant legitimizing Indian aggression in violation of Simla Agreement and giving reason to India to make illegal claim over it in its future negotiations. India maintained this stance in 1994 talks as well despite Pakistan having shown flexibility to record existing positions on an annexure but with a caveat in the main text of the agreement that it would not be misused by India to lay legal claim over the vacated areas. It is an open secret that India wants to convert captured territory as a contested region similar to disputed Kashmir.

Indian military argued that without authentication both on maps and written text, it would impel Pak Army to capture strategically important Soltoro Ridge, which overlooks Karakorum Pass, where borders of China, Pakistan and India meet. As such, India uncompromisingly maintained that demilitarization would take place only when Agreed Ground Position Line (AGPL) is accepted. Real reason behind the change of heart was that Indian military didn’t want to lose strategically important Soltoro, which not only helps India in denying Pakistan-China access to reach other, but also in dominating Gilgit-Baltistan and safeguarding Tibet.

Kargil conflict in 1999 further hardened the stance of India. Ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) at the initiative of Pakistan and recommencement of Composite Dialogue in 2004 leading to several rounds of talks on all disputes including Siachen up till late 2008 failed to settle any of the disputes because of India’s unbounded obstinacy.

After Mumbai attacks India stalled the dialogue and refused to renew it till as late as mid 2011 despite Pakistan’s repeated requests. Finally when 12th round of talks on May 30-31, 2011 took place, Pakistan in all sincerity put forward tangible suggestions. It proposed joint monitoring of disengagement process, redeployment positions bounded by Gyong, MJ 9842 and Warshi, preparation of two lists – positions occupied in 1984, and future deployment positions.

India rejected all the proposals and maintained its inflexible stance that AGPL beyond MJ 9842 must be delineated before demilitarization. This was altogether contrary to the earlier sequence of disengagement, redeployment outside the conflict zone and demarcation agreed to in 1989. In order to justify its inflexibility, India of late has been expressing its growing concerns over increasing presence of China in Pakistan’s Northern Areas. Indo-western media has been floating rumors that Chinese have been allowed to set up military bases. This made-up excuse has given added reason to India to maintain its obstinacy over Siachen issue.


It is crystal clear that India is buying time and is least interested in resolving any of the core disputes which include Kashmir, Siachen, Sir Creek and dams on rivers. It grudgingly agreed to resume talks not to settle outstanding disputes but to promote trade and enhance cultural cooperation through people-to-people contacts which are entirely to its advantage. India is keen to consolidate its MFN status to dominate Pakistani markets, to utilize trade route to Afghanistan and Central Asia via Wagah and also to secure its hold over Afghanistan. It however wants to derive all these benefits without ceding anything in return since it is devoid of large-heartedness and intrigue is in its blood. It seems our leaders are all set to grant unilateral trade concessions to India since the US wants it that way.

It is surprising that some of the political leaders, pseudo intellectuals, segment of media, and RAW paid SAFMA and Aman ki Asha having proclivity for India instead of building pressure on India to vacate its illegal occupation of Soltoro ridge, are holding both sides equally responsible for the impasse. Some suggested that Pakistan had been dragging its feet to settle the dispute. Others said Pakistan should agree to record current ground position on a map. They are trying to create an impression as if Pakistan was guilty of defending its territory and are pressing our government to carryout unilateral withdrawal from Siachen. Nawaz Sharif prophesized that he is sure India would follow suit if Pakistan takes the initiative and withdraws the troops.

Some look at Pakistan’s defence budget with contempt. A myth is in circulation that Pak military spends much more than Indian military which is untrue. As per SIPRI, Pakistan defence budget fell from 6.2% of GDP in 1988 to 2.8% in 2009 and that of India from 3.8% to 2.8% of GDP. Pakistan spent $5.685 billion on defence in 2011 as against India spending $44.282. India has made an increase of 17% in its 2012/13 defence budget and allocated $40 billion for defence purchases. Probably anti-military elements have bought the outlandish idea of the US and President Zardari that India poses no threat to Pakistan. Major threat to Pakistan is from India since over70% of its military might is focused toward Pakistan. It has the intentions, military and economic capability and the support of sole super power to opt for a military adventure against Pakistan whenever opportunity comes its way. Those promoting Indian interests at the cost of Pakistan’s interests need to be cautioned.

The tragedy that befell upon 6 NLI can also fall upon any of Army unit of Indian military stationed in a much difficult zone and the disaster could be bigger in magnitude. Gen Kayani has urged India to hasten the process of demilitarization of Siachen Glacier and also settle other disputes so that undue loss of human lives and human sufferings on both sides could be avoided and colossal amounts spent on troop sustenance diverted toward betterment of people’s lives. India’s response has been cautious and lukewarm since it is fancying that given the host of intricate problems in which Pakistan is confronted with, together with Indian sponsored media campaign in the two countries, Pakistan will be amenable to India’s selfish proposals and would carry out unilateral withdrawal from Siachen.

Siachen tragedy should be an eye-opener for the leaders of India and Pakistan and a reminder to the world community to see for itself the cost paid by the forces of two neighbors chiefly because of expansionist policies pursued by India and also because of the backup support provided by the US and other world powers. But for mulishness of India, this tragedy wouldn’t have occurred. While Siachen Glacier is melting fast due to heavy presence of Indian military, diplomatic ice on Siachen is hardening due to India’s intransigence. The world must exert full pressure on India to stop sacrificing human beings at the altar of puffed up egos and vacate the illegally occupied inverted triangle on Siachen Glacier so that both India and Pakistan could divert the colossal amount spent on the maintenance of troops towards alleviation of poverty in the two countries. Pakistanis have not forgotten the unrelenting pressure applied by the US led G-8 countries in 1999 forcing Pakistan to vacate Kargil heights. Why the civilized world is so hesitant to apply same kind of pressure on India, or it has two set of rules and principles?

The writer is a retired Brig and a freelance columnist.

Siachen trgedy: India

This fellow is deranged and the venom he spits is nothing but unadulterated trash. His views are synchronous with that of the Marde-monim idea of Pakistan army. These guys feed off the conflict fear between India and Pakistan. They do not want peace or trade or even the civilian control in Pakistan of its institutions. These are the fellow which happily bred extremism and took Pakistan to the precipice that it is today by fuelling all kind of hatred and sectarianism just to ensure their own little supremacy in what they consider as their kingdom. Thankfully, these guys are getting old and inconsequential. LoL, look at the one line that he dedicated to the "Kargil Conflict" and then the whole paragraph about how Pakistan army initiated peace after the conflict.

Siachen is classic case of "angoor khattey hain" for Pakistan army. India does not need to be any saint here and keep our territory. Cannot trust the officers who even disowned their NLI men at Kargil. And this fellow today is crying hoarse over the dead men at Gayari because it serves their purpose. Shameless.

 

[Markus]

Yet both sides stubbornly hold on to their positions and continue to fight and die on the roof of the world, which is the highest and costliest. ​

When the writer clearly says that both sides are stubborn, then why does the title of the article have to be "India's unbounded obstinacy" ?​

 

[Shinigami]

Siachen trgedy: India’s unbounded obstinacy​

Written by Brig. (Retd) Asif Haroon Raja

isnt he the same guy who said that india hired south african and israeli commandos during mumbai attacks?

let us examine his idiocracy in this article

1.

India had been planning for this venture since 1981.

 

[DEV444]

Siachen trgedy: India’s unbounded obstinacy​

1. The first party to occupy Bilafond La (pass) with military force was Pakistan in 1983: This is from the book by Gen Jahan Dad Khan then commander 10 Corps - "Pakistan Leadership Challenges"When the SSG company got across Bilafond Pass (in 1983), the helicopter pilot reported an Indian location one thousand yards ahead in the Siachen Area. After seeing our helicopter, the Indian troops, comprising Ladakh Scouts, left their location in a great hurry abandoning all their rations and tentage. The SSG Company stayed in this area for ten days but was ordered to withdraw in the first week of September 1983 as it had started snowing and the company did not have equipment for survival in the winter season under thirty to forty feet of snow, which is the normal snow range. I believe the scout who warned the Indian location of the approaching SSGs was awarded an Ashok Chakra.

2. From The Indian point of view this triggered action: This is what Lt. Gen M.L. Chibber who was Army Commander North has to say on this incident,

The problem precipitated on 21st August 1983 when a protest note from Northern Sector Commander of Pakistan was handed over to his counterpart in Kargil stating that Line of Control joins with the Karakoram Pass, also that all the area West of this extended line belongs to Pakistan. When Army Headquarters saw this and also got information that Pakistan troops had occupied Bilafond Pass, they ordered Northern Command to prevent the occupation of the Glacier area by Pakistan during the mountaineering season in 1984.

3. The fact of the matter is in 1984 the Pakistanis lost out due to poor intelligence: This is what Lt. Gen Jahan Dad Khan, Corp Commander 10th Corps, has to say on the matter

The withdrawal of the SSG company was followed by many meetings in the GHQ to decide our plan of action for the summer of 1984 when the Indians were bound to come in greater numbers. Also taken into consideration was the fact that whoever succeeded in occupying the passes first would be able to hold them, as it was impossible to dislodge them from these positions due to the terrain and the conditions. As Corps Commander, I gave the following assessment to the GHQ:

Next year (1984), India is most likely to pre-empt the occupation of the main passes of Baltoro Ridge with two-battalion strength for occupation and a third battalion as reserve. It would need another brigade to provide them with logistic support. Maximum helicopter force will have to be utilized for logistic support. Their air force will be available for air cover and airdrop of supplies/equipment. We will need a brigade group with a battalion plus to occupy these passes and the rest of the force to provide relief and logistic support. We would also need maximum porter force to carry supplies and ammunition from Goma to the glacier position. All our helicopters force, both Alouette and Puma, will have to be mobilized for recce and logistic cover. The PAF has to stand-by to provide air cover. I had also cautioned GHQ that this operation will be very costly in logistic support. Our Military Intelligence must be alerted to keep us informed of all enemy movements beyond Leh to forestall their occupation of the glacier area.

A meeting was held in December 1983, in the GHQ Operation Room under the chairmanship of President General Zia ul Haq. After listening to the 10 Corps Plan, the COAS thought that the operation on both sides would be on a limited scale, involving not more than a brigade on the Indian side and a battalion on Pakistan's side. The COAS had obviously underestimated the quantum of force required by both sides. He had also under-estimated the logistic problem of this operation as presented to him by the logistic staff of the GHQ. In this meeting, it was decided to incorporate the PAF in this operation and Ma. Gen. Pir Dad Khan (Commander of the Northern Areas) was given the task of pre-empting occupation of the passes, reaching there not before May 1984, as weather conditions before that period would not allow the use of helicopters and the PAF. This decision was to be approved by Defence Coordination Committee (DCC) attended by Chairman Joint Staffs Committee and all service chiefs. So preparatory work was started on the procurement of high altitude equipment and clothing, improvement of roads and tracks, recruitment of porters etc. All these preparations were to be completed by April 1984.

I handed over command of the 10 Corps to Lieutenant-General Zahid Ali Akbar Khan on 31st March 1984 after completing my tenure of four years. I gave him a detailed briefing about this operational plan and particularly stressed the importance of Intelligence keeping a watch on Indian moves beyond Leh. However, I learned later that when our troops approached the Baltoro Ridge passes during the third week of May 1984, the Indians were already in occupation of Gyong Pass in the south, strategically important because it could interfere with the enemy's line of logistic support. As it was impossible to dislodge the Indians, we had no option but to occupy the next highest feature opposite them. This was a great setback for Pakistan, although all plans, including the timing of troop movement, had been laid down at the highest level. We had obviously failed to appreciate the timing of the Indian move and our intelligence agencies had failed to detect the movement of a brigade-size force in this area. It was learnt that the Indians had moved up their troops from Leh in the second half of April 1984.

After the occupation of these positions by both sides, opposite each other, the border became active. Both sides started inducting heavy weapons, including artillery guns, rocket launchers, and anti-aircraft missiles. Fire duels, patrol clashes, and engagement of helicopters through anti-aircraft guns became a daily affair. Both sides also brought up more troops to counter each other. Since then, there has been no substantial change in the relative position of both sides. It was in the winter of 1984 that the Pakistani troops first experienced operating at that altitude. But the troops were provided high altitude equipment and there was no abnormal loss of life due to weather conditions. Pakistan was also able to induce French Lama Helicopters to make up for our disadvantage vis-à-vis the Indians.

As for Brigadier Raza's contention Several daring attempts were made by Pak forces to retake captured heights but failed because India had the advantage of higher ground.

Well the highest post was the Qaid Post set up by the Pakistani Army but Indian Army still managed to win the post from Pakistan and rename it Bana Post in 1987. Pakistani Army has also since then been beaten several times by the Indian Army in wresting back the Bana Post. Plus, in Kargil too, Pakistan had the same advantage of high ground but still Indian Army fought and won back these heights. The Indian Army's unparalled mastery of high altitude warfare is the reason why armies all over the world - US, Britain included- send their soldiers to India to learn high altitude warfare.

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

hmm... so many people bunked their geography classes in their primaries...

just agree north is north rather than east.. how difficult is that

 

[Infinity]

@ S_o_c_o_m..............I think the Sher story by me inspired you to change your avatar................Now if I show my Avatar with this ladies image Photoshoped ...........wearing PANTY of your countries flag.................I will get banned...........

 

[Archie]

@ S_o_c_o_m..............I think the Sher story by me inspired you to change your avatar................Now if I show my Avatar with this ladies image Photoshoped ...........wearing PANTY of your countries flag.................I will get banned...........

Why Not

 

[Bang Galore]

What's with this constant whining? If the Pakistanis cannot fight the "Saltoro" war (yeah Saltoro, not Siachen because Pakistanis are nowhere on Siachen), they should pack up & go home. What's this nonsense of "both sides should demilitarize the Siachen glacier"? It essentially means just one thing, that India should take her troops back because all the Pakistanis can do is to vacate their inferior positions on the Saltoro ridge line, they certainly can't vacate any part of Siachen since they are nowhere there. When military officers, present or former start to whine, you know that they are pretty much beaten. So many Pakistani former military officers seem to have only one thing to do these days, whine about Indian cussedness & how Pakistan is logically right about not signing on to the AGPL. Only one problem; India is doing just fine & if Pakistan wants India to move, terms have to be to its liking. Anything else is just pipe dreaming on a grand scale & has no chance of attaining any traction.