The problem with Pakistani liberals

[muse]

Consider Swat: the military drove them out but no improvement in governance was offered to alleviate the conditions that made its people desire an alternative to Pakistani rule in the first place..

This is a canard - Army's job is to kill the enemies of the nation and state - and we should consider seriously whether those with seemingly unlimited funds, and who promote "Hold and build", whether they do so, based on positive experience. We should be careful when dealing with the lazy and confused arguments that the author offers and should avoid the traps the author's logic leaves for us:

The only true liberals and seculars of the country are the people of Pakistan who continue to vote for non-religious political parties. They understand that choosing even a putatively liberal and secular party is better than handing over the country to those who stand for the imposition of their version of a religion

Then the author also offers:

Following the good riddance from Ziaul Haq, courtesy his love for mangoes, our ‘liberal’ leaders did not lift a finger to repeal the barbarous blasphemy laws. Both the military and civilian rulers failed to resolve the problems facing the common man. And when some young people in Balochistan rose up against the injustices in their province they were made to simply disappear from the face of the earth. These are the acts of self-serving rulers and not those of true liberals.

Note again, the confusion -- Blasphemy laws have not been repealed because it's bad politics in the atmosphere where the enemy has not been defeated by the Army, notice we are silent on "courageous" politics - then the author mixes the entire issue with the affairs of Balochistan - is Balochistan also a Wahabi insurgency?

So which is it, Liberals who vote for the secular parties are bad guys, who keep the lunes at bay??? or Liberals the bad guys who are ineffective politicians?? And yet win votes of those Liberals who keep the lunes at bay??
It's just a poor reasoned piece

 

[Argus Panoptes]

....................

The article hits the nail on the head: the core problem facing Pakistan is lack of governance; fix that -- fix the law enforcement apparatus -- and the mullahs will become meek as a mouse....................

Fixing governance and law enforcement was not easy under the best of circumstances, and nearly impossible in the present circumstances prevailing in Pakistan. Therefore, the mullahs will likely not retire meekly, but raise holy hell everywhere they can, which is pretty much everywhere.

 

[muse]

The article hits the nail on the head: the core problem facing Pakistan is lack of governance; fix that -- fix the law enforcement apparatus -- and the mullahs will become meek as a mouse.

P.S. To be fair, this disease of illliberal mindset masquerading as liberalism is endemic of all self-righteous crowds, from the ultra-liberal to the ultra-conservative, not just in Pakistan, but the world over.

I'm not sure I'm following you, are you suggesting that poor governance is due to liberalism or liberals? And on your second point, the Illiberal mindset, are you suggesting that Pakistani liberals are illiberal? not liberal enough?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I think both the extreme liberals and extreme mullahs are the root cause of all the issues our countries are facing.... both should be locked and the keys thrown in the arabian sea.

 

[muse]

what are extreme liberals? Extremely liberal? I can just cannot understand the Pakistani tendency of creating moral equations where they simply do not exist

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

what are extreme liberals? Extremely liberal? I can just cannot understand the Pakistani tendency of creating moral equations where they simply do not exist

People like Mr Pervez Hoodboy who dont understand the basic issues of the country and present their distorted pro western agendas and ideas..... sir the world is not as rosy as it might seem sitting in ur cosy house in some developed country....




Dont pull a Vcheng on me... haha..

 

[muse]

People like Mr Pervez Hoodboy who dont understand the basic issues of the country and present their distorted pro western agendas and ideas..... sir the world is not as rosy as it might seem sitting in ur cosy house in some developed country....

Dont pull a Vcheng on me... haha..

Perish the thought -- So an extreme liberal is someone who has a distorted Western Agenda - which is exactly what?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Perish the thought -- So an extreme liberal is someone who has a distorted Western Agenda - which is exactly what?

If ur familiar with Hoodboys thinking...u should have understood.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

People like Mr Pervez Hoodboy who dont understand the basic issues of the country and present their distorted pro western agendas and ideas..... sir the world is not as rosy as it might seem sitting in ur cosy house in some developed country......

You are correct in saying that the "proper" perspective on Pakistan can come only from sitting in the dark and cold with no electricity or gas, and going out everyday through checkposts and demonstrations and blackades, not knowing whether you will come home with your belongings or even your life.

Every day.

The opinions and loyalties of those with dual nationalities or permanent residency are suspect indeed.

 

[muse]

If ur familiar with Hoodboys thinking...u should have understood.

I would encourage you to express yourself with a minimum of five full sentences, in this way you can articulate your ideas fully and help people such as me not think that you do not know what you are talking about, After all. Dr. Hoodbhoy is nuclear physicist and takes many positions in the public, and I am familiar with his positions with regard to research in Pakistan, on the issues surrounding the morality of nuclear weapons, and of course his position with regard to intolerance and religiously inspired extremism in society - now which of these would you suggest is "distorted Western agenda" -- and also please do help me understand what an undistorted Western agenda is.

 

[Huda]

I think both the extreme liberals and extreme mullahs are the root cause of all the issues our countries are facing.... both should be locked and the keys thrown in the arabian sea.

Because they are extremely corrupted they become extremists for their own benefits

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I would encourage you to express yourself with a minimum of five full sentences, in this way you can articulate your ideas fully and help people such as me not think that you do not know what you are talking about, After all. Dr. Hoodbhoy is nuclear physicist and takes many positions in the public, and I am familiar with his positions with regard to research in Pakistan, on the issues surrounding the morality of nuclear weapons, and of course his position with regard to intolerance and religiously inspired extremism in society - now which of these would you suggest is "distorted Western agenda" -- and also please do help me understand what an undistorted Western agenda is.

His other views notwithstanding, the biggest issue with Professor Hoodbhoy's views is his insistence that nuclear weapons are not the correct choice for Pakistan, failing to realize that it is precisely these weapons that have ensured the survival and integrity of Pakistan for last several decades.

 

[Armstrong]

Perish the thought

That sounds eerily like what Sir Humpfrey would say !

 

[SQ8]

and also please do help me understand what an undistorted Western agenda is.

Ill make an attempt..

Distorted

Undistorted

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Ill make an attempt..

Distorted

Undistorted

If you put it like that, wouldn't the "distorted" view be preferable over the "undistorted" one? Personally, I would prefer using their money to fund social development over drone attacks any day.