The U.S. refused to supply Pakistan with the 6.6 ton AH-1W model

[Saifullah Sani]

Pakistan wants more helicopter gunships, in particular it wants some new helicopters rather than used stuff to supplement, and replace the 35 AH-1S and AH-1F gunships it already has. Three of these have been lost in the last few years in the tribal territories where helicopter gunships are badly needed, heavily used and frequently shot at.

For years Pakistan tried to obtain the 6.6 ton AH-1W model from the United States. This would have been a major upgrade for the Pakistani helicopter gunship force. Developed by the U.S. Marine Corps the W model was configured for naval use, and has two engines and protection against sea water corrosion. Like the AH-1F model used by Pakistan, the AH-1W has a crew of two and is armed with a 20mm, 3 barrel, autocannon (with 750 rounds) and can carry eight TOW missiles or 38 70mm unguided rockets. Typical sorties last about three hours (twice that of the AH-1F). The Pakistanis are also equipping their gunships with night vision (thermal imaging) equipment.

The U.S. refused to supply Pakistan with the W model or any other modern versions. This included the more recent AH-1Z. The major user of the AH-1W, the U.S. Marine Corps, has remanufactured its 180 AH-1T/W attack helicopters into AH-1Z Viper models. This upgrade includes a new 4 bladed composite rotor system, transmission, strengthened structural components, and modern digital cockpit avionics. The first ones entered service in 2011.

The U.S. has turned down Pakistani requests for any of these AH-1 models in an effort to persuade Pakistan to be more cooperative in dealing with Islamic terrorism. The Pakistanis repeatedly refuse and have pretty much given up on getting more AH-1s from the United States. Meanwhile Pakistan is seeking other helicopter gunships from China (WZ-10), Turkey (T-129) and Russia (Mi-35) as well as heavily armed commercial helicopters equipped with electronics similar to those used on gunships. None of these other options has worked out, not yet anyway. Part of the problem is that Pakistan has little cash to spend on new or used helicopter gunships and is hoping for a gift, or big discount from someone. There’s not a lot of that around for Pakistan, which provides sanctuary to Islamic terrorists who are hostile to all the nations that could provide new helicopters.

Warplanes: The Perils Of Pakistan

 

[fatman17]

strategy page.....says it all.

 

[Shabi1]

Because of current requirements of US Marines the AH-1W/AH-1Zs cannot be exported before 2015. Same reason the AH-1Z has lost out on Gunship tenders with other countries. I don't think US has officially refused to supply them, there simply has been no news about AH-1Zs.

 

[tarrar]

First of all Pakistan should now completely stop begging from US & they should look for alternate options. For China & Russia are the best option for Pakistan. MI35 cannot be called full fledged attack helicopter as it is also carry troops, for me MI28 Havoc & WZ10 are the best available option for PA & PA should go for it asap & replace the aging dying fleets of cobras. Soon we will also face problems with US F16 & US will not help Pakistan in spare parts & so on, so Pakistan needs to look for other better options & solve this problem before it starts or else we will suffer like old dying cobra gunships.

Pakistan needs to forget that US will give them modern or required defence hardware & search & settle for best long term available options.

This is also a lesson for Pakistan to learn that not to rely on US for defence hardware & so on.

 

[waz]

strategy page.....says it all.

Yes, I'd take what they say with a pinch of salt.

Because of current requirements of US Marines the AH-1W/AH-1Zs cannot be exported before 2015. Same reason the AH-1Z has lost out on Gunship tenders with other countries. I don't think US has officially refused to supply them, there simply has been no news about AH-1Zs.

I spoke to a Cobra pilot from the US the other day at an air-show and he said a similar thing regarding requirement for the US marines. I don't think the US has refused.

Anyway, Pakistan should stick and stay the course with the T-129.

 

[Kompromat]

This is a not an unexpected good news. Less American weapons mean, less dependancy on America.

Mi-35s will take care of our night raids by Special Ops, later the AH-1S/F can be replaced by T-129B or a matured Z-10.

 

[Imran Khan]

not first time i think so .

 

[Rank]

No authenticity

 

[boomslang]

....Part of the problem is that Pakistan has little cash to spend on new or used helicopter gunships and is hoping for a gift,....

A 'gift' ? Really ?

 

[Viper0011.]

This is a not an unexpected good news. Less American weapons mean, less dependancy on America.

Mi-35s will take care of our night raids by Special Ops, later the AH-1S/F can be replaced by T-129B or a matured Z-10.

I don't understand. You guys have great relations with Turkey and with the Chinese (and better relations with the Russians now), why not get some heavier Gunships to fulfill the gap and then get into TOT with them on some model that can later be produced in large number within Pakistan? That'll save a LOT of $$ for you guys and an indigenous platform that you can enhance on will...

Soon we will also face problems with US F16 & US will not help Pakistan in spare parts & so on.
Pakistan needs to forget that US will give them modern or required defence hardware & search & settle for best long term available options.
This is also a lesson for Pakistan to learn that not to rely on US for defence hardware & so on.

I think you are ignoring the entire issue. Majority of the equipment you guys get, comes in the shape of FMS, essentially a gift for the lack of better terms. Items become FMS worthy after the internal need if fulfilled first, unless someone is paying full cost to have it developed for their country like the UAE, India, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc. For Pakistan that's not the case majority of the time (outside of that 28 -16 saga from decades ago). So you either have to wait to see when certain things become available or are allowed for export of you should pay full price and get those developed for you.
If you get stuff under FMS, you are getting stuff almost like a gift at a much reduced "ally" price, the entire deal is provided under the United States Government's Foreign Relations policy and the US laws are applicable. That means restrictions and potentially stopping of supplies in case relations go bad. That's just how it is. You sign a similar contract when you buy Windows from Microsoft or IPhone from Apple. They own the product and have the right to do whatever changes to it even after you owned it.

 

[Kompromat]

I don't understand. You guys have great relations with Turkey and with the Chinese (and better relations with the Russians now), why not get some heavier Gunships to fulfill the gap and then get into TOT with them on some model that can later be produced in large number within Pakistan? That'll save a LOT of $$ for you guys and an indigenous platform that you can enhance on will...

All of the above is possible but not without $$ we don't have.

 

[waz]

I don't understand. You guys have great relations with Turkey and with the Chinese (and better relations with the Russians now), why not get some heavier Gunships to fulfill the gap and then get into TOT with them on some model that can later be produced in large number within Pakistan? That'll save a LOT of $$ for you guys and an indigenous platform that you can enhance on will...



I think you are ignoring the entire issue. Majority of the equipment you guys get, comes in the shape of FMS, essentially a gift for the lack of better terms. Items become FMS worthy after the internal need if fulfilled first, unless someone is paying full cost to have it developed for their country like the UAE, India, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc. For Pakistan that's not the case majority of the time (outside of that 28 -16 saga from decades ago). So you either have to wait to see when certain things become available or are allowed for export of you should pay full price and get those developed for you.
If you get stuff under FMS, you are getting stuff almost like a gift at a much reduced "ally" price, the entire deal is provided under the United States Government's Foreign Relations policy and the US laws are applicable. That means restrictions and potentially stopping of supplies in case relations go bad. That's just how it is. You sign a similar contract when you buy Windows from Microsoft or IPhone from Apple. They own the product and have the right to do whatever changes to it even after you owned it.

Excellent post.

 

[Kompromat]

@orangzaib - Pakistan's economy is gradually recovering. When funds become available, there are a number of options to replace the cobras as mentioned above. T-129(B) has been offered by TAI under a ToT agreement, which remains a highly attractive prospect. Green flag in this matter is the construction of a heli production factory at PAC. If we hear anything about progress being made on that front, it would confirm that a heli deal is in works.

 

[SQ8]

Leave it to the trash bags at strategy page to insert something negative about Pakistan in even the most mundane of stories.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

A 'gift' ? Really ?

yes thumbs down to such stupid thinking.
some smart *** might also suggest that Pakistan is also asking for fuel, ammo and the salary of the crew as well.
giving a second thought to such comments is pointless

Leave it to the trash bags at strategy page to insert something negative about Pakistan in even the most mundane of stories.

T-129 surpasses what American cobras would offer us. for now Russian Mi-35's will serve the purpose re TTP
so I would hold on to Anti American protest for the moment.