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US urges India to avoid Pakistan-centric policies

You mean there is no abuse or bad treatment of oppression against the Dalits in reality and only found in this newspaper???

Of course there is. There is a lot of casteism in the villages to this day, and it also plays a big part in politics. We can make laws, but changing mentality takes time doesn't it?
This newspaper is not junk because it speaks of oppression...read about its other viewpoints and you too will realise it is junk. It is run by a group of paranoid journalists on the fringe of the media.


Why this newspaper is anti-Hindu ???? when the people who are running it are also Hindu.
If you think Brahmins consider Dalits as equal part of Hinduism than why would poor Dalits take pain to speak against own Hindus ???

But ok even if we accept your arugments about the newspaper, than let me quote some other news resources that is not Anti-Hindu

The people who are running this paper are anything but hindus. They are famous for supporting Bin Laden, for denying the holocaust, for supporting Nazi germany, and other such "extreme" viewpoints that few subscribe to.
 
Marhatha i had also posted news from another nuteral sources so you can not say that is anti-India or Anti-hindu.

Rest will reply in detail 2mrw
 
Marhatha i had also posted news from another nuteral sources so you can not say that is anti-India or Anti-hindu.

Rest will reply in detail 2mrw

Just to clarify, the paper is supporting about caste-based reservation in Higher educational institutions, and is blaming the brahmins for subverting their attempts to implement it.

On the contrary, caste based reservations are being implemented in all institutions across to board. This has led to a domino effect and now every caste, even so called "low-income brahmins" are demanding caste based reservations.

These guys have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. But what can you expect from people who think Hitler was a hero?
 
One should see the wealth of Mayavati and I wonder if that is a sin!

Caste system is an evil that is vanishing and will vanish as people get empowered and they are being empowered if one goes by the number of 'lower caste' people in high offices.

Zina (Arabic: الزناء) is extramarital sex in Islam. Islamic law prescribes punishments for Muslim men and women for the act of Zina.

Zina is considered one of the greatest sins in Islam , whether it is before marriage or after marriage. In addition to the punishments rendered before death, sinners will be punished severely after death, unless purged of their sins by a punishment according to shari'a law.

Islamic law prescribe stoning as the punishment for adultery committed by a married person, while the punishment for unmarried adulterer is one hundred lashes or being exiled for 12 months. The source for the punishment of an unmarried adulterer is the Quran, while the sources for the punishment of the married adulterer is found in the ahadith.

The Qur'an forbids extramarital sex and regards it as the worst of the forbidden acts.
“ And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.

And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin. The punishment shall be doubled to him on the day of resurrection, and he shall abide therein in abasement.

The punishment for Zina is explicitly stated in the Quran in verse [Qur'an 24:2]:
“ The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Now, even in most countries that followed the Sharia as a vehicle for jurisprudence, like Pakistan, stoning was not resorted to since that is not in keeping with contemporary times.

The case of the The Zina laws (Hudood Ordinance) introduced in 1979 require the presence of four witnesses to the act of rape or adultery before the crime can be established. The law obliterates the distinction between adultery and rape and criminalizes a private offence, adultery (sexual relations outside marriage between two consenting adults), while making rape a matter for private complaint, in which the onus of proof lies on the victim. The confusion about what is allowed in Islam and what is not; has only been exacerbated by politicizing religion, and the severity of the punishments under these laws.

Therefore, it is worth remembering politics plays a role in the whole issue of castes (in India) and the Huddood and Rape (in Pakistan). As I am sure many here would jump to interpret this Huddood Law in Pakistan and incorrect in interpretation and a canard, I presume the same would apply to India and caste!

One must realise that we live in contemporary times and all are not in a time-wrap like Saudi Arabia!
 
Different rates in the context of the claim in a post of equality and justice is what I am alluding to!.

Well if you had taken the time to read any of the post relating to jizya you would have worked out that in actual fact the muslim paid more ,once you included all the tax's.


Dabong,

I do not subscribe to religion !.

So your not a muslim.

but I also do not go ballistics in a perverted manner, if someone does practice a Faith. After all, it is a matter of choice and personal belief.!.

Your stating the obvious,its like me saying i believe in justice and freedom....who doesnt?

Read this:
"My uncle the Muslim atheist" by Hanif Kureish
My uncle the Muslim atheist | The Guardian | Guardian Unlimited.!.


Muslim atheist,what a ridiculous notion.....its like a god fearing athiest,no such thing.

Tribute is an jeziya are not quite the same thing.

semantics
 
One should see the wealth of Mayavati and I wonder if that is a sin!

Caste system is an evil that is vanishing and will vanish as people get empowered and they are being empowered if one goes by the number of 'lower caste' people in high offices.

Zina (Arabic: الزناء) is extramarital sex in Islam. Islamic law prescribes punishments for Muslim men and women for the act of Zina.

Zina is considered one of the greatest sins in Islam , whether it is before marriage or after marriage. In addition to the punishments rendered before death, sinners will be punished severely after death, unless purged of their sins by a punishment according to shari'a law.

Islamic law prescribe stoning as the punishment for adultery committed by a married person, while the punishment for unmarried adulterer is one hundred lashes or being exiled for 12 months. The source for the punishment of an unmarried adulterer is the Quran, while the sources for the punishment of the married adulterer is found in the ahadith.

The Qur'an forbids extramarital sex and regards it as the worst of the forbidden acts.
“ And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.

And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin. The punishment shall be doubled to him on the day of resurrection, and he shall abide therein in abasement.

The punishment for Zina is explicitly stated in the Quran in verse [Qur'an 24:2]:
“ The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Now, even in most countries that followed the Sharia as a vehicle for jurisprudence, like Pakistan, stoning was not resorted to since that is not in keeping with contemporary times.

The case of the The Zina laws (Hudood Ordinance) introduced in 1979 require the presence of four witnesses to the act of rape or adultery before the crime can be established. The law obliterates the distinction between adultery and rape and criminalizes a private offence, adultery (sexual relations outside marriage between two consenting adults), while making rape a matter for private complaint, in which the onus of proof lies on the victim. The confusion about what is allowed in Islam and what is not; has only been exacerbated by politicizing religion, and the severity of the punishments under these laws.

Therefore, it is worth remembering politics plays a role in the whole issue of castes (in India) and the Huddood and Rape (in Pakistan). As I am sure many here would jump to interpret this Huddood Law in Pakistan and incorrect in interpretation and a canard, I presume the same would apply to India and caste!

One must realise that we live in contemporary times and all are not in a time-wrap like Saudi Arabia!


The caste system in india will not vanish as you hope but will remain as the foundation of brahmin domination.
The media,banking and political institutions are in the hands of less then 5% of the indian population.

The following are the well known Newspapers that are owned by the Brahmins, not to mention so many others which are financed less by the Brahmins.

The Indian Express - 93 % employees are Brahmins

The Hindu - 97 % employees are Brahmins

The Times of India - 73 % employees are Brahmins

These Brahmins have invaded both All India Radio and Television. Most of the time the Brahmins and their programmes are on air.

The figures below are from the late 80's and must be a lot worse now.
1. Loksabha 48% are Brahmins
2. Rajyasabha 36 % are Brahmins
3. Governor/L.G. 50 % are Brahmins
4. Secretary to Governor/ L.G. 54 % are Brahmins
5. Union Cabinet Secretaries 53 % are Brahmins
6. Chief Secretaries to Minister 54 % are Brahmins
7. Private Secretaries to Minister 70 % are Brahmins
8. JS/ Additional Secretaries 62 % are Brahmins
9. Vice-Chancellors to Universities 51% are Brahmins
10. Supreme Court Judges 65 % are Brahmins
11. High Court Judges/ Addl. Judges 50 % are Brahmins
12. Ambassadors 41% are Brahmins
13. Chief Executive of Public undertaking:
(i) Central 57 % are Brahmins
(ii) State 82 % are Brahmins
(Courtesy: Voice of the Week, Oct. 1989)
In other fields also:
Banks 57% are Brahmins
Airlines 61 % are Brahmins
IAS Offices 72% are Brahmins
IPS Office 61 % are Brahmins
Radio & TV 83% are Brahmins
CBI, Customs & Central Excise 72% are Brahmins

It would be good of you to tell the hindu/brahmin leaders that we live in contemporary times and all are not in a time-wrap like ancient india!
 
Dabong,

Why not go around and take the figures from 1947. That would be even better!

And could we have the link.

As far as private industry, it can employ anyone they want. There is no Fauji Foundation running business in India.

India in a Timewrap? Give us another one! Are you walking around like the Red Mosque Mullah?
 
Dabong,
As far as private industry, it can employ anyone they want. There is no Fauji Foundation running business in India.

India in a Timewrap? Give us another one! Are you walking around like the Red Mosque Mullah?

lolz Sir come on are you sayint that Dalits are not treated like even worse the third rather to say even 10th class citizens in India?

Sir do think private industry in India is not run by those Hindus who are abiding by cast system.
One can well imagine in a country where the low cast hindus are even not allowed to pray in hindu temples that are specified for high class hindus, what would be the situation in private industry in india with regard to employee low cast Dalits.

fauji foundation does not employee people on the basis of cast atleast :P
come on sir dont try to hijack the thread just like some teenager indians do on almost all forums.
Some mature comments on part of a mature and learned person like you are expected :)
 
India: UN Finds Pervasive Abuse Against Dalits (Human Rights Watch, 12-3-2007)

India: UN Finds Pervasive Abuse Against Dalits
After Review by UN Anti-Discrimination Body, Government Should Move From Talk to Action
(New York, March 12, 2007) – The Indian government should take immediate steps to implement the recommendations of a United Nations committee that found persistent violence and discrimination against Dalits, or so-called “untouchables,” a group of international human rights organizations said today.

The UN Committee’s concluding observations confirm that India has failed to properly protect Dalits and tribal communities.

Brad Adams, Asia Director of Human Rights Watch.


Contribute to Human Rights Watch


Related Material

CERD concluding observations
Web Site, March 9, 2007

Hidden Apartheid
Report, February 13, 2007

Center for Human Rights and Global Justice
Web Site

India
Country Page

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The organizations include Human Rights Watch, the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice at New York University School of Law, and the International Dalit Solidarity Network.

On March 9, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) issued its Concluding Observations regarding India’s compliance with the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. The Committee’s report found that “de facto segregation of Dalits persists” and highlighted systematic abuse against Dalits including torture and extrajudicial killings, an “alarming” extent of sexual violence against Dalit women, and caste discrimination in post-tsunami relief.

The Committee called for effective measures to implement laws on discrimination and affirmative action, and sought proper protection for Dalits and tribal communities against acts of “discrimination and violence.” The Committee has given India a year to respond to four of its recommendations, including its recommendations on how India can end widespread impunity for violence against Dalits, and Dalit women in particular.

“The UN Committee’s concluding observations confirm that India has failed to properly protect Dalits and tribal communities,” said Brad Adams, Asia Director of Human Rights Watch. “This is a prime opportunity for India to give its own policies on discrimination some meaning. Laws need to be implemented, and those who violate them must be prosecuted.”

The Concluding Observations were issued following two days of hearings in Geneva on February 23 and 26 between Committee members and the Indian delegation. During the hearing, Committee members uniformly took issue with the Indian government’s refusal to acknowledge that caste-based discrimination is covered by the Convention and is an issue of international human rights concern.


Inparticular, the Committee called on the Indian government to:

Introduce mandatory training on the application of India’s Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act for police, judges and prosecutors, and take disciplinary measures against those who fail to implement this law.

Ensure the protection of witnesses and victims to caste-based crimes and ensure their immediate access to effective remedies.

Prosecute and punish perpetrators of sexual violence and sexual exploitation of Dalit women, and sanction anyone found preventing or discouraging victims from reporting such incidents, including public officials.

Eradicate the social acceptance of caste-based discrimination through public education and awareness campaigns.

Ensure equal access to health care, safe drinking water, and other public services.

Investigate all alleged cases of discrimination against Dalits in post-tsunami relief and compensate or retroactively grant benefits to victims of such discrimination.

Take effective measures to reduce dropout rates and increase enrollment rates among Dalits at all levels of schooling by providing scholarships and by ending classroom segregation.

Ensure proper enforcement of reservations or quotas to counter the under-representation of Dalits and tribal communities in government and public services.

Adopt measures to enhance Dalits’ access to the labor market, including by extending the reservation policy to the private sector.

Repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act that, while providing the armed forces with widespread powers to search, arrest and shoot suspects, leading to allegations of human rights abuses, has immunity provisions under which troops cannot be prosecuted unless authorized by the Central Government.

The Concluding Observations reflect the Committee’s disappointment with India’s presentation before the Committee on February 23 and 26. Despite India’s Solicitor General Goolam Vahanvati’s claim to the Committee that the government is “deeply conscious and concerned about caste and is fully committed to tackling this at every level,” the Indian delegation resorted to a semantic debate on the difference between caste and race to support its erroneous assertion that the Convention only covers race-based discrimination.

Citing India’s extensive laws and policies to end caste-based discrimination, none of which have been faithfully implemented, the Indian delegation also questioned the credibility of the Committee’s sources of information. These sources included reports of India’s own governmental agencies and numerous reports by Indian and international nongovernmental organizations, including “Hidden Apartheid,” which the NYU Center for Human Rights and Global Justice (CHRGJ) along with Human Rights Watch produced as a “shadow report” ahead of CERD’s review of India’s periodic report.

In its Concluding Observations, “the Committee reaffirm[ed] that discrimination based on the ground of caste is fully covered by article 1 of the Convention.” It cited its position expressed in General Recommendation No. 29, “that discrimination based on ‘descent’ includes discrimination against members of communities based on forms of social stratification such as caste and analogous systems of inherited status which nullify or impair their equal enjoyment of human rights.”

“The Indian delegation’s arrogant rejection of well-documented abuses against Dalits before UN experts in Geneva mirrors India’s systematic denial of Dalit rights at home,” said Professor Smita Narula, faculty director of the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice. “India once again squandered an opportunity to enlist the support of experts in its efforts to ensure equality in law and practice for its citizens.”

Comprised of independent experts from around the world, the Committee was led in its review by Mr. Linos-Alexander Sicilianos of Greece. On December 27, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh likened the practice of untouchability in India to apartheid in South Africa. “After this statement,” Siciliano said, “I sincerely feel that the official position [of the Indian delegation…] is simply untenable.” The Committee formally noted its appreciation for the prime minister’s remarks in their Observations.

Committee members characterized India’s position as a “broken record,” a “step backwards,” and cautioned that India should not “confuse growth with development.” Sicilianos reminded the government that “change cannot be achieved by legislation alone.” The Committee also highlighted its concern over “abuses at the local level” for which “radical measures” were necessary. The Indian government’s position left Committee members asking why India did not choose to view the review as “an opportunity rather than a threat.” Committee members also noted that caste-based discrimination was not unique to South Asia, but also existed in many parts of Africa
The Committee’s sharp rebuke to the Indian government has been matched by growing scrutiny both inside and outside the country. On February 1, 2007 the European Parliament passed a resolution voicing strong concern about the plight of Dalits in India and urging the government to engage with relevant UN bodies, including CERD.

“Instead of sidestepping its responsibilities, India should welcome assistance from the international community to eliminate caste-based discrimination,” said Rikke Nöhrlind, coordinator of the International Dalit Solidarity Network. “The fact that European Parliament strongly urged its own institutions to address caste discrimination in all EU-India relations reflects growing worldwide concern about India’s ‘hidden apartheid.’”

More than 165 million people in India continue to be subject to discrimination, exploitation and violence simply because of their caste. In India’s “hidden apartheid,” untouchability relegates Dalits throughout India to a lifetime of segregation and abuse. Caste-based divisions continue to dominate in housing, marriage, employment and general social interaction—divisions that are reinforced through economic boycotts and physical violence.

“Hidden Apartheid,” which was produced as a “shadow report” ahead of CERD’s review of India’s periodic report, documents India’s systematic failure to respect, protect and ensure Dalits’ fundamental human rights. Severe violations persist in education, health, housing, property, freedom of religion, free choice of employment and equal treatment before the law.

The report also documents routine violations of Dalits’ right to life and security of person through state-sponsored or sanctioned acts of violence, including torture. Dalit women face multiple forms of discrimination and are frequent targets of sexual abuse. State and private actors enjoy virtual impunity for these crimes.
 
Jana,

I am from a Dalit Regiment. To be precise the Mahar Regiment. Babasaheb Ambedkar.

Much that it would not please you, there was no casteism!

Another thing is I don't take the Western agencies too seriously. They tend to exaggerate. If one were to believe them, then Pakistan is as backward as Saudi Arabia! Do I believe that? No.

The western agencies love to show that we are poverty stricken, living on less than $1 per day,we are all wife beaters, all our children are child labour, we are all uneducated and we don't use deodorant!

Believe it if you want.

I don't and I don't care what nonsense they churn up against Asian countries.
 
Well, a nig part of India is not as developed as you might think. Not everone is Brahman and not everyone is rich. We know the numbers so we can make our own conclusions rather eating western propaganda. But that said there is a large improvement to do on the Pakistani side... Certainly when it comes to education and female rights.
 
Jana,

I am from a Dalit Regiment. To be precise the Mahar Regiment. Babasaheb Ambedkar.

Much that it would not please you, there was no casteism!

Another thing is I don't take the Western agencies too seriously. They tend to exaggerate. If one were to believe them, then Pakistan is as backward as Saudi Arabia! Do I believe that? No.

The western agencies love to show that we are poverty stricken, living on less than $1 per day,we are all wife beaters, all our children are child labour, we are all uneducated and we don't use deodorant!

Believe it if you want.

I don't and I don't care what nonsense they churn up against Asian countries.

:) Sir Ray we know they churn things like that but it does not mean that we do not have those problems.

The point is not that how they present things the point is we are too narrow minded or in state of denial that we do not accept that we have these problems.
Same is the problem with you, by saying that there is no casteism.

and its also not the point of pleasing me or someone but its the matter that when we mentaly accept that we have these problems and stop finding excuses for the same, then we are able to find some sort fo solution for these.
Am i right sir?
As far your not taking western agencies seriousely for such thinsg i wish you also dont when they are presenting their views and stuff against Pakistan and Muslims.
 
Well, a nig part of India is not as developed as you might think. Not everone is Brahman and not everyone is rich. We know the numbers so we can make our own conclusions rather eating western propaganda. But that said there is a large improvement to do on the Pakistani side... Certainly when it comes to education and female rights.

Munir we are not denying nor we ever did deny that we have these problems like education and female rights.
These are common issues be it India or Pakistan.
On other hand when we talk about plight of Dalits in India we also dosnt mean that all Brahmins are rich or oppressed Dalits nor we go for western agenda of propoganda.

The only thing is that they must accept that dalits are oppressed atleat the State of India the Government of India can officialy announce that Dalits can do Pooja in same Mandirs along with Brahmins and whosoever discriminate them will be taken to task .
 
The government announced long ago that Dalits had the right to enter the temples, I think it was about the same time they abolished caste!!
 
Dabong,

Why not go around and take the figures from 1947. That would be even better!?

I think the late 80s is good enough.


As far as private industry, it can employ anyone they want. There is no Fauji Foundation running business in India.?

The Fauji Foundation is not caste based.

India in a Timewrap? Give us another one! Are you walking around like the Red Mosque Mullah?

Just like ancient india where the Brahmins controlled everything and now in the 21st century they still control the vast majority of the wealth of india.....yeah you are stuck in a timewarp.
 

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